Is God competent or incompetent?

[ding]

I believe that God is existence itself. There is only one existence.

You are convinced that all of his is silly so you put forth silly beliefs. Such as you don't believe there are any so you argue that there are many. See?

Someone yesterday was arguing with me about multiverses. They couldn't imagine the cosmos go on forever. Infinitely. That was incomprehendable. But ask them if god is infinite and eternal they have no problem believing that.

Multiverses do not mean they are contiguous or infinite.

Besides no matter how one cuts it each of those multiverses had a beginning that was controlled by rules. Rules which existed before the inflation of each universe. Rules that no one knows where they come from. So no matter how you slice it there will always be the first cause conundrum, and the only solution to that is something that is eternal and unchanging.

possibly there are no rules and our universe is just another throw of the dice.

Nope. Inflation theory says otherwise. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Ya, because man knows everything there is to know about that and made a law. Sheesh you're simple.

You are the type that worships science until it doesn't suit your purpose, amirite?

 

[ding]

Good Lord, you are slow. I told you that pages ago. We are.

So you and I are responsible for that deformed baby?

Don't be silly.

You don't believe in God because deformed babies exist?

I'm trying to figure out why a god would even make deformed babies. So, if not my fault, then whose fault?

While you are pondering all the things you believe God should have differently do you ever take a minute to think about what He got right?

So you're saying that god is responsible for deformed babies if, as you say, he got some stuff right?

You can blame God for everything you dislike, just make sure to give Him credit for all the shit you do like. Fair enough?

 

[GreatestIam]

Who fucked up there?

Do you know what it means that evil is not extant?

Do you agree that evil is not extant?

What is the source of this evil you see?

Regards
DL

The absence of good.

Do you not know what extant means?

If good is absent, then one cannot call something evil as there is nothing good to compare it to.

How would you know that what you were looking at was evil?

Without a reference point, you could not label something as evil?

That is why the sages called it the tree of knowledge of good and evil. One cannot know one without the other.

Thanks for your simplistic reply though. It shows your mindset.

Regards
DL

I have this mindset because you act like a condescending asshole.

Yes, evil makes good taste sweeter, but that is not why it exists. It exists because men who do it are absent of good when they do it. God has no part in it. What He created was good.

Your use of adjectives show how little you can think.

Yet his good all went to evil according to your own dogma, as shown in the O.P.

Regards
DL

 

[rightwinger]

God seems to have anger issues

The Great Flood, Killing the firstborn of Egypt

He needs to learn to lighten up

 

[ding]

Do you know what it means that evil is not extant?

Do you agree that evil is not extant?

What is the source of this evil you see?

Regards
DL

The absence of good.

Do you not know what extant means?

If good is absent, then one cannot call something evil as there is nothing good to compare it to.

How would you know that what you were looking at was evil?

Without a reference point, you could not label something as evil?

That is why the sages called it the tree of knowledge of good and evil. One cannot know one without the other.

Thanks for your simplistic reply though. It shows your mindset.

Regards
DL

I have this mindset because you act like a condescending asshole.

Yes, evil makes good taste sweeter, but that is not why it exists. It exists because men who do it are absent of good when they do it. God has no part in it. What He created was good.

Your use of adjectives show how little you can think.

Yet his good all went to evil according to your own dogma, as shown in the O.P.

Regards
DL

Other than you insulting me I have no idea what you were trying to say. Is English your second language?

 

[ding]

God seems to have anger issues

The Great Flood, Killing the firstborn of Egypt

He needs to learn to lighten up

Are you another one of those who blames God for all the bad stuff but refuses to credit Him for all the good stuff?

 

[Taz]

Someone yesterday was arguing with me about multiverses. They couldn't imagine the cosmos go on forever. Infinitely. That was incomprehendable. But ask them if god is infinite and eternal they have no problem believing that.

Multiverses do not mean they are contiguous or infinite.

Besides no matter how one cuts it each of those multiverses had a beginning that was controlled by rules. Rules which existed before the inflation of each universe. Rules that no one knows where they come from. So no matter how you slice it there will always be the first cause conundrum, and the only solution to that is something that is eternal and unchanging.

possibly there are no rules and our universe is just another throw of the dice.

Nope. Inflation theory says otherwise. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Ya, because man knows everything there is to know about that and made a law. Sheesh you're simple.

You are the type that worships science until it doesn't suit your purpose, amirite?

nope.

 

[GreatestIam]

I agree.

Note how Christians see a fall in Eden while Jews see man's elevation.

Christians got the beginning wrong so it is not surprising that they would get most of scriptures wrong.

Regards
DL

And yet what this Christian saw was the self evident truth that man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. And that man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Genesis isn't implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Now go fuck yourself.

To prefer good over evil, man must have the knowledge of good and evil.

Regards
DL

Evil is nothing more than the absence of good. Evil does not exist on it's own. It is the absence of something else, in this case good. Just like cold is the absence of heat or darkness is the absence of light.

Man does prefer good over evil. He doesn't need to experience evil to know that he prefers good over evil. What he needs to do is stop rationalizing that when he does evil he is doing good.

Read my last to you and stop using simplistic and rather stupid thinking that you have picked up elsewhere.

Regards
DL

Read my last post to see what I think about you.

I have seen that you like to go to the personal.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

If your mind grows, I am here for you.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Multiverses do not mean they are contiguous or infinite.

Besides no matter how one cuts it each of those multiverses had a beginning that was controlled by rules. Rules which existed before the inflation of each universe. Rules that no one knows where they come from. So no matter how you slice it there will always be the first cause conundrum, and the only solution to that is something that is eternal and unchanging.

possibly there are no rules and our universe is just another throw of the dice.

Nope. Inflation theory says otherwise. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Ya, because man knows everything there is to know about that and made a law. Sheesh you're simple.

You are the type that worships science until it doesn't suit your purpose, amirite?

nope.

That's pretty funny because you just shit all over the leading cosmological model of how the universe began , bro.

 

[ding]

And yet what this Christian saw was the self evident truth that man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. And that man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

Genesis isn't implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.

Now go fuck yourself.

To prefer good over evil, man must have the knowledge of good and evil.

Regards
DL

Evil is nothing more than the absence of good. Evil does not exist on it's own. It is the absence of something else, in this case good. Just like cold is the absence of heat or darkness is the absence of light.

Man does prefer good over evil. He doesn't need to experience evil to know that he prefers good over evil. What he needs to do is stop rationalizing that when he does evil he is doing good.

Read my last to you and stop using simplistic and rather stupid thinking that you have picked up elsewhere.

Regards
DL

Read my last post to see what I think about you.

I have seen that you like to go to the personal.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

If your mind grows, I am here for you.

Regards
DL

I couldn't be happier that you look down upon me. I really couldn't. It works to my advantage every time.

 

[GreatestIam]

Cop out. So says scriptures.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Regards
DL

You are quoting Christians who are idol worshipers?

That is what you believe, right?

So why would you quote someone who was an idol worshiper?

I also quote non-idol worshipers.

I quote whoever I wish, and why not, if it serves my purpose?

Regards
DL

What is your purpose?

To grow in knowledge and wisdom.

Regards
DL

Which can be accomplished by doing good.

It is our choice that we don't.

I see that as a lie as I do not see freedom of choice in your childish way.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Why?

Do you think that the fact that religions promote homophobia and misogyny as well as the love of a genocidal son murdering prick of a God might have people going against such evil beliefs for good reasons?

Or should that evil be ignored by good people?

Regards
DL

Not a big fan of God, I see.

I like God. Just not the Abrahamic one.

Why do you think anyone should like a genocidal son murdering God?

Regards
DL

So why don't you tell me about your God.

Your view of God is whatever your mind has concocted. So is mine.

I am a Gnostic Christian.

You are speaking to the God I know when you speak to me. What would you like to know?

Regards
DL

Why do you spend so much time discussing what you don't believe instead of discussing what you do believe?

I do both as the occasion rises.

I cannot put wisdom into a mind full of garbage and have to try to muck it out first.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

God seems to have anger issues

The Great Flood, Killing the firstborn of Egypt

He needs to learn to lighten up

For sure.

You would think that a God would know that curing is more moral and better than killing.

Regards
DL

 

[RWNJ]

LOL! No one is replying to you anymore. You might want to consider just why this happened. I'm out of here also. Have fun talking to yourself. YOU killed this thread. Well done.

Oh, and welcome to my ignore list. You've earned it.

 

[ding]

I see that as a lie as I do not see freedom of choice in your childish way.

Honest men can have honest differences of opinions without needing to call the opinions of others childish. If your opinions were objective you wouldn't be threatened by the opinions of others and need to call them childish. You indict yourself through your own words.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

You have free will. Feel free to blame God for anything you choose. But it is a sign of an external locus of control.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

Not my interpretation. That is yours. Mine is that everything God made is good and we have a choice to be good or devoid of good. Blaming others for your mistakes is a failed behavior which will naturally lead to failure.

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

Again, everything God made is good and we have a choice to be good or devoid of good. Blaming others for your mistakes is a failed behavior which will naturally lead to failure.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

False. They also do good. So sin nature is not necessarily dominant. There is a distribution and when the distribution is evaluated, man is overwhelmingly good.

God doesn't punish us. How does God punish us?

 

[GreatestIam]

What is the source of this evil you see?

Regards
DL

The absence of good.

Do you not know what extant means?

If good is absent, then one cannot call something evil as there is nothing good to compare it to.

How would you know that what you were looking at was evil?

Without a reference point, you could not label something as evil?

That is why the sages called it the tree of knowledge of good and evil. One cannot know one without the other.

Thanks for your simplistic reply though. It shows your mindset.

Regards
DL

I have this mindset because you act like a condescending asshole.

Yes, evil makes good taste sweeter, but that is not why it exists. It exists because men who do it are absent of good when they do it. God has no part in it. What He created was good.

Your use of adjectives show how little you can think.

Yet his good all went to evil according to your own dogma, as shown in the O.P.

Regards
DL

Other than you insulting me I have no idea what you were trying to say. Is English your second language?

You do not seem to like your own medicine. Meanwhile, I see reciprocity as fair play.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

God seems to have anger issues

The Great Flood, Killing the firstborn of Egypt

He needs to learn to lighten up

For sure.

You would think that a God would know that curing is more moral and better than killing.

Regards
DL

So what do you believe God should have done?

 

[ding]

The absence of good.

Do you not know what extant means?

If good is absent, then one cannot call something evil as there is nothing good to compare it to.

How would you know that what you were looking at was evil?

Without a reference point, you could not label something as evil?

That is why the sages called it the tree of knowledge of good and evil. One cannot know one without the other.

Thanks for your simplistic reply though. It shows your mindset.

Regards
DL

I have this mindset because you act like a condescending asshole.

Yes, evil makes good taste sweeter, but that is not why it exists. It exists because men who do it are absent of good when they do it. God has no part in it. What He created was good.

Your use of adjectives show how little you can think.

Yet his good all went to evil according to your own dogma, as shown in the O.P.

Regards
DL

Other than you insulting me I have no idea what you were trying to say. Is English your second language?

You do not seem to like your own medicine. Meanwhile, I see reciprocity as fair play.

Regards
DL

You aren't making any sense.

Your statement that, "Yet his good all went to evil according to your own dogma, as shown in the O.P." made no sense.

You refer to my dogma without specifying anything. I can't read your mind. I didn't write the OP, so I'm pretty sure you are confused about something.

But it is me not seeing reciprocity as fair play, right?

 

[GreatestIam]

God seems to have anger issues

The Great Flood, Killing the firstborn of Egypt

He needs to learn to lighten up

Are you another one of those who blames God for all the bad stuff but refuses to credit Him for all the good stuff?

Are you one who gives God credit for the good but blames man, his creation to you, for all the evil?

Do you just ignore the words in scripture that say God is responsible for all things?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these"

Regards
DL

 

[Taz]

possibly there are no rules and our universe is just another throw of the dice.

Nope. Inflation theory says otherwise. It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

Ya, because man knows everything there is to know about that and made a law. Sheesh you're simple.

You are the type that worships science until it doesn't suit your purpose, amirite?

nope.

That's pretty funny because you just shit all over the leading cosmological model of how the universe began , bro.

Please don't try to argue above your brain grade, it's going to give me another headache.