Impeachment Does Not Require a Crime

[justoffal]

The title speaks for itself. Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. trumps impeachment is constitutionally correct.

Presidential Impeachment: The Legal Standard and Procedure - FindLaw

Then, you will have no problem with impeachment proceedings against the next Democrat to hold the office starting within hours of his inauguration?

Since the Republican Senate will acquit Trump, the next president will be immune from impeachment for abuse of power because the Senate said abuse power is not impeachable. Nor will the next president be held accountable as he can give the middle finger to Congressional subpoenas. This is the new reality you all have created.

True.

At least as far as the president of the United States is concerned, Article II, Section 4 of the Constitution is null and void.

For a third time Senate Republicans will fail to obey the Framers’ intent with regard to impeachment, reaffirming a dangerous precedent, and codifying the Imperial Presidency.

The Republic is headed the way of the Roman Republic when the Senate and the people really just didn't care anymore. The impeachment article and Congressional oversight is headed for the trash heap.

At the very least future presidents will know that they can abuse executive power with impunity.

The word abuse is not a legal term.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi....

They are the ones they wrote it for. They are the Founding Father's worst nightmares....the would-be-rulers who seek to strip control, power, rights from the people's hands

I really wish they included an exclusivity
Clause....it would have been very helpful.

I know it takes a retard not to understand the meaning but look who we are dealing with.

Then again the Dems would say that Trump
Chewing gum is Treason.

Jo

 

[easyt65]

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi....

They are the ones they wrote it for. They are the Founding Father's worst nightmares....the would-be-rulers who seek to strip control, power, rights from the people's hands

I really wish they included an exclusivity
Clause....it would have been very helpful.

I know it takes a retard not to understand the meaning but look who we are dealing with.

Then again the Dems would say that Trump
Chewing gum is Treason.

Jo

Agreed....but this is the Senate's opportunity to stomp on the House's 'nads' to drive home the point that the Founding Fathers never created Impeachment as a partisan tool - in a document that was all about 'WE, the PEOPLE' - to allow self-appointed / would-be rulers to strip power and Rights away from 'WE, THE PEOPLE', to void democratic elections and deny their shoes leaders.

Allowing these traitors to single-handedly alter the very intent of the Constitution - to reward oppressive power-hungry politicians by giving them tools to oppress the people - would be to destroy the Constitution and all it stands for.

No, this should be a monumental history when their traitorous power grab is not just denied but crushed to prevent these criminals from every trying this again.

They are getting bolder and bolder because no one is holding them accountable. Obama illegally spied on US citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, and even USSC Justices. He got away with it because he 'owned' the DOJ, NSA, CIA, FBI, and the 17 Intel Agencies. He went on to not only illegally spy on Trump and his team but to also direct the coup against a newly elected resident.

Obama should be admonished officially for the record / history books if nothing else fro being a criminal enemy of the state.
Clapper,Brennan, Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and Clinesmith should be convicted and be new residents of Gitmo...joined by Pelosi , Nadler, and Schiff.

In Washington they like to 'speak around' what things really are.

Mis-speak, mis-information, yadda, yadda = LIED.

Claiming to have evidence of crimes against the President for 2 years while attempting to undermine him is 'making a mistake' or whatever instead of SEDITION.

FISA Court Abuses are called 'changes that need to be made in the FBI'

Call the bastards out for what they have done for the last 4 years, convict them, and send them to jail. BURN them all so this never happens again!

 

[Oddball]

Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says

President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

The president’s statement as described by Mr. Bolton could undercut a key element of his impeachment defense: that the holdup in aid was separate from Mr. Trump’s requests that Ukraine announce investigations into his perceived enemies, including former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his son Hunter Biden, who had worked for a Ukrainian energy firm while his father was in office.


Mr. Bolton’s explosive account of the matter at the center of Mr. Trump’s impeachment trial, the third in American history, was included in drafts of a manuscript he has circulated in recent weeks to close associates. He also sent a draft to the White House for a standard review process for some current and former administration officials who write books.

, to delay or even kill the book’s publication or omit key passages.

Yet another in a long line of leaks by by an unnamed source.

 

[easyt65]

(Dude, I almost lost my lunch.....)

 

[ThisIsMe]

No they didn't.... But they also didn't say that the high crimes and misdemeanors were required for the impeachment process.

?!

You're freakin' nuts.

I dont agree with that premise "anything congress seems impeachable".

Let's put it like this, if trump wins again, but the senate goes to the dems, trump will be impeached again, and he will be removed.

Even if the Senate goes to the Dems they need 67 votes to remove. Not likely to happen

Yes, but my point was, we dont need this precedent being established. It could lead to less savory times in the years ahead.

Unfortunately, pandora box is already open. If trump is acquitted, then next time dem holds the presidency, and comes into this situation, then people can look back and say "see, repubs got away with it, so you cant impeach the dem president".

If he is removed, then it opens the door for any congress to remove a president at their whim, and it means congress can hold power over the executive branch, via threat of impeachment.

This is simply a bad situation we find ourselves in and it could be bad for the future.

The way I see it, if trump is truly innocent and he has nothing to hide, then he needs these witnesses and documents to come out. He needs to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that he has done nothing wrong, and put this precedent to bed.

If he is guilty of conspiring with a foreign government, then he needs to be removed. I dont buy the obstruction accusation as I believe there is a procedure for dealing with refused subpoenas, and the dems didnt do it. Each of the 3 coequal branches of government cannot be forced by the other, they can be challenged, and that challenge needs to go to court.

Had the house done that, there is a good chance they would have won, but they didnt, and here we are.

The way I see it, if trump is truly innocent and he has nothing to hide, then he needs these witnesses and documents to come out.


Yeah......in our system of government, it is up to the government to prove it's case....not the victim of the government prosecution....

I see what you are saying, but my point is, if trump is innocent, he needs to remove all doubt about it. He doesnt needs to allow this case to be won with doubt and speculation in peoples minds. Doing so will open doors and set precedents that I dont think this country wants.

Like I said already this is just the beginning.
Now any POTUS who loses the house will be looking at Impeachment.

Jo

Exactly, and it shouldnt be that way. Which is why this precedent needs to be quashed.

 

[Faun]

Trump confessed -on live TV. Mick Mulvaney corroborated it- on live TV "We do this all the time, get over it"

Please provide the link to the videotaped confession.......like Joe's:





Mulvaney testified that Presidents, as part of foreign policy, withhold / delay aid / money all the time, something idiots like Schiff, and apparently you, are unaware of.

June 2018: the administration temporarily paused $105 million in aid to Lebanon.

Sept 2018: President Trump cancelled $300 million in military aid to Pakistan because it was not meeting its counter terrorism obligations

June 2019: President Trump cut or paused over $550 million in foreign aid to El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala because those countries were not barely sharing the burdens of preventing mass migration to the United States

September 2019: The administration announced that it was withholding over $100 million in aid to Afghanistan over concerns about government corruption

The Democrats did not scream 'Abuse of Power' for any one of these. So why Ukraine?
* SEE THE VIDEO ABOVE!

WH COUNSEL SEKULOW DESTROYED SCHIFF AND THE DEMOCRATS LIES / CLAIMS OF ABUE OF POWER BY READING THE TRANSCRIPTS OF DR. HILL AND AMBASSADOR YOVANOVITCH IN WHICH THEY BOTH STATED EVERYONE WAS WORRIED ABOUT UKRAINE CORRUPTION AND ELIMINATING UKRAINE CORRUPTION WAS TRUMP FOREIGN POLICY!
- So much for their BS about 'putting his personal welfare above national security!

Educate yourself, and not by listening to Democrat Talking Points / Schiff LIES!


Trump Defense Team Opening Argument Transcript: Jan 25 Impeachment Trial Statements from Cipollone, Philbin, Sekulow, Purpura - Rev

Joe confessed to getting a corrupt prosecutor fired. Kudos to him.

 

[Faun]

Why is it okay for Joe "the groper" Biden to quid pro quo Ukraine on holding 1 billion dollars of aid unless Ukraine "fires" a prosecutor who is investigating Joe Biden's son, and when it is being looked into, by President Trump, he Don is accused of the crime? Because the power grab of the Demoncraps is so outrageous that they "Demoncraps" know that their only hope to win 2020 is to keep Joe from going to jail, just like they did with Hitlery. Such stupid people are the voters of these criminals, who are allowed to get away with their crimes, but would shoot a voter in the back, if it could keep them out of trouble.

"...who is investigating Joe Biden's son..."

You're fucking crazy, cultist -- that never happened.

No wonder you can't win this debate... you're arguing from a position of absolute ignorance.

 

[Faun]

Impeachment Does Not Require a Crime

Countless legal scholars and legal experts say you are wrong.

Oh? Like who?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Impeachment Does Not Require a Crime

Countless legal scholars and legal experts say you are wrong.

That is idiotic Who are they? Count them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[iceberg]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

And dershowitz is saying you must have a crime. Argue with him.

 

[BS Filter]

Impeachment must be for a crime. Period.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

Because obstruction of Congress is in fact a crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[iceberg]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

Because obstruction of Congress is in fact a crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Show that in the constitution how that is defined or impeachable.

The defense is tearing your bullet points up right now.

Abuse of power and obstruction are not defined enough to be impeachable. Keep your prayers and dreams warm, but 6all are full of fucking shit.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi....

They are the ones they wrote it for. They are the Founding Father's worst nightmares....the would-be-rulers who seek to strip control, power, rights from the people's hands

I really wish they included an exclusivity
Clause....it would have been very helpful.

I know it takes a retard not to understand the meaning but look who we are dealing with.

Then again the Dems would say that Trump
Chewing gum is Treason.

Jo

Agreed....but this is the Senate's opportunity to stomp on the House's 'nads' to drive home the point that the Founding Fathers never created Impeachment as a partisan tool - in a document that was all about 'WE, the PEOPLE' - to allow self-appointed / would-be rulers to strip power and Rights away from 'WE, THE PEOPLE', to void democratic elections and deny their shoes leaders.

Allowing these traitors to single-handedly alter the very intent of the Constitution - to reward oppressive power-hungry politicians by giving them tools to oppress the people - would be to destroy the Constitution and all it stands for.

No, this should be a monumental history when their traitorous power grab is not just denied but crushed to prevent these criminals from every trying this again.

They are getting bolder and bolder because no one is holding them accountable. Obama illegally spied on US citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, and even USSC Justices. He got away with it because he 'owned' the DOJ, NSA, CIA, FBI, and the 17 Intel Agencies. He went on to not only illegally spy on Trump and his team but to also direct the coup against a newly elected resident.

Obama should be admonished officially for the record / history books if nothing else fro being a criminal enemy of the state.
Clapper,Brennan, Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and Clinesmith should be convicted and be new residents of Gitmo...joined by Pelosi , Nadler, and Schiff.

In Washington they like to 'speak around' what things really are.

Mis-speak, mis-information, yadda, yadda = LIED.

Claiming to have evidence of crimes against the President for 2 years while attempting to undermine him is 'making a mistake' or whatever instead of SEDITION.

FISA Court Abuses are called 'changes that need to be made in the FBI'

Call the bastards out for what they have done for the last 4 years, convict them, and send them to jail. BURN them all so this never happens again!

Holy fucking shit!! Seriously?? How much shit can you throw at the wall to deflect the discussion away from what Trump did? Obama? FISA warrants? Deal with the charges against Trump. This is nothing but Gish Gallop

 

[The Original Tree]

Dershowitz is calling The OP a Liar.

 

[BS Filter]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

Because obstruction of Congress is in fact a crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. You should be watching the trial. That is what is being covered today.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

Because obstruction of Congress is in fact a crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. You should be watching the trial. That is what is being covered today.

Nope? I did watch it. Are you really that stupid?

 

[iceberg]

I'm sure you're r right about the FF intentions but I submit to you they never saw the likes of Schiff and Pelosi....

They are the ones they wrote it for. They are the Founding Father's worst nightmares....the would-be-rulers who seek to strip control, power, rights from the people's hands

I really wish they included an exclusivity
Clause....it would have been very helpful.

I know it takes a retard not to understand the meaning but look who we are dealing with.

Then again the Dems would say that Trump
Chewing gum is Treason.

Jo

Agreed....but this is the Senate's opportunity to stomp on the House's 'nads' to drive home the point that the Founding Fathers never created Impeachment as a partisan tool - in a document that was all about 'WE, the PEOPLE' - to allow self-appointed / would-be rulers to strip power and Rights away from 'WE, THE PEOPLE', to void democratic elections and deny their shoes leaders.

Allowing these traitors to single-handedly alter the very intent of the Constitution - to reward oppressive power-hungry politicians by giving them tools to oppress the people - would be to destroy the Constitution and all it stands for.

No, this should be a monumental history when their traitorous power grab is not just denied but crushed to prevent these criminals from every trying this again.

They are getting bolder and bolder because no one is holding them accountable. Obama illegally spied on US citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, and even USSC Justices. He got away with it because he 'owned' the DOJ, NSA, CIA, FBI, and the 17 Intel Agencies. He went on to not only illegally spy on Trump and his team but to also direct the coup against a newly elected resident.

Obama should be admonished officially for the record / history books if nothing else fro being a criminal enemy of the state.
Clapper,Brennan, Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and Clinesmith should be convicted and be new residents of Gitmo...joined by Pelosi , Nadler, and Schiff.

In Washington they like to 'speak around' what things really are.

Mis-speak, mis-information, yadda, yadda = LIED.

Claiming to have evidence of crimes against the President for 2 years while attempting to undermine him is 'making a mistake' or whatever instead of SEDITION.

FISA Court Abuses are called 'changes that need to be made in the FBI'

Call the bastards out for what they have done for the last 4 years, convict them, and send them to jail. BURN them all so this never happens again!

Holy fucking shit!! Seriously?? How much shit can you throw at the wall to deflect the discussion away from what Trump did? Obama? FISA warrants? Deal with the charges against Trump. This is nothing but Gish Gallop

View attachment 302947View attachment 302948

We will just like you dealt with Obama crimes. Ignore you and your claims.

Good precedence set.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

then why do the dems keep saying there is one when one isn't needed?

Because obstruction of Congress is in fact a crime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Show that in the constitution how that is defined or impeachable.

The defense is tearing your bullet points up right now.

Abuse of power and obstruction are not defined enough to be impeachable. Keep your prayers and dreams warm, but 6all are full of fucking shit.

What the hell does that mean? How well do they have to be defined? The poingt is that Trumps actions undermined our national security and the integrity of our democracy. That is all the definition that we need .