Imagine a world without Muslims

[Pogo]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Let's work with that. This viewpoint is foundational to a lot of universalist and modern thought. Imagine the Christianity had never developed and spread the lessons of the Bible. Imagine instead that the model of Sparta had prospered.

Would your world of today be better if Spartan values were used as a foundation for evolving ideologies?

What in the fuck do "Spartan values" have to do with the bible? What kind of comparison is that?

And back up --- what exactly do we mean by "the lessons of the bible"? Which lessons we talkin'?

 

[Darlene]

Also, its not just Christianity that believes in such peaceful mannerisms. There are others:
Peaceful Religions

Buddhism vs Christianity - Difference and Comparison Diffen

Debate Argument Buddhism is better than Christianity Debate.org

Buddhism Is Better For You Than Christianity

I am not Buddhist but I thought these articles were pretty interesting.

 

[Pogo]

They tossed the lesser babies from a cliff.

It was the lease they could do.


Hey, if yer gonna keep feeding me straight lines...

 

[Darlene]

I would never be so cruel to my children. Everyone has the right to life and the right to live peacefully.

 

[Mojo2]

I don't care what atrocities have been committed against whom. We are all humans and no matter the beliefs we hold, Jesus, Allah, or whatever you call your higher power would not want us to be treating each other the way we do.

Are you willing to make a wager that your statement is false?

I think you assume Islam's values are similar to yours.

In some respects they are. But in others they are not.

Muslim men are taught to try to emulate the life of the Prophet, if I understand it correctly. And this means one should look at the life of Muhammad for clues about what makes up the ideal Muslim.

Once you read about Muhammad and how his life should be an example for followers until the end of time, and you look at Muhammad's warrior, terrorist, period and you might well conclude that he would really dig the way Muslims are treating infidels and others today.

Except that maybe he might be impatient with today's Muslims for the lack of progress they've made toward getting more of the faithful to persevere with their Jihadi struggles..

Darlene, do your homework about Islam.

EDIT: Here's a clue...

Christianity and Islam: A Side by Side Comparison* * It is not the purpose of this site to promote any particular religion, including Christianity. However, we do enjoy refuting nonsense, such as the claim that Muhammad and Jesus preached a morally equivalent message or that all religion is the same.

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." "Allah" (Qur'an 8:12) "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq 992) "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."Jesus (Matthew 5:14) Even though many Muslims regard terrorists who kill in the name of Allah as criminals, they cannot deny that Muhammad also killed in the name of Allah. What example of Jesus do Christians emulate which has them confused them with terrorists and criminals? Each year, thousands of Christian homes and churches are torched or bombed by Muslim mobs, and hundreds of Christians, including dozens of priests, pastors, nuns and otherchurch workers are murdered at the hands of Islamic extremists. The so-called justification varies, from charges of apostasy or evangelism, to purported "blasphemy" or "insulting" Islam. Innocent people have even been hacked to death by devout Muslims over cartoons. Yet, there is little if any violent retaliation from religious Christians to the discrimination,kidnapping, rape, torture, mutilation and murder that is routinely reported from nations with Muslim majorities. Neither is there is any significant deadly terrorism in the name of Jesus, as there is in the stated cause of Allah each and every day. Muslim clerics in the West do not fear for their safety as do their Christian counterparts. The "Christian world" and the Islamic world contrast sharply in other ways as well, from the disparate condition of human rights and civil liberties to economic status. An astonishing 70% of the world's refugees are Muslims - usually seeking to live in Christian-based countries. While Western societies take seriously "scandals" such as Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo (where no one has actually been killed), Muslims routinely turn a blind eye to their own horrible atrocities, even those committed explicitly in the name of Allah. The Muslim world has yet to offer a single apology for the tens of millions of lives consumed by centuries of relentless Jihad and slavery. These sharp differences are almost certainly rooted in the underlying religions, which begin with the disparate teachings and examples set by Jesus and Muhammad... (Really cool, really informative, really helpful matrix comparing Christianity vs Islam) Comparing Jesus and Muhammad Christianity and Islam [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Rikurzhen]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Let's work with that. This viewpoint is foundational to a lot of universalist and modern thought. Imagine the Christianity had never developed and spread the lessons of the Bible. Imagine instead that the model of Sparta had prospered.

Would your world of today be better if Spartan values were used as a foundation for evolving ideologies?

What in the fuck do "Spartan values" have to do with the bible? What kind of comparison is that?

And back up --- what exactly do we mean by "the lessons of the bible"? Which lessons we talkin'?

To get tot he world of today we need to look back to the world of yesteryear for customs and revolution are always a REACTION to the existing world order.

So, if we wipe out Christianity from the stream of history then some other way of organizing life must be substituted. Pagan Rome could be one. Sparta though illustrates the principle nicely.

If not Christianity, then what in it's place. From that starting point, customs and revolutions will REACT as time unfolds until we get to the present. Would the present in that alternative path look like the present of today? I doubt it.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I would never be so cruel to my children. Everyone has the right to life and the right to live peacefully.

Which is a belief that you've been bathed in because it arises from a Christian foundation and is then adopted by Enlightenment thinkers. Wipe out Christianity and the only way of thinking you would know would be based on a different moral foundation.

 

[pismoe]

not really much research or homework for anyone to do , results of islam are right in front of everyones nose for everyone to see .

 

[Pogo]

not really much research or homework for anyone to do , results of islam are right in front of everyones nose for everyone to see .

And if they're not, we'll just make 'em up and put 'em on AM radio.

 

[Mojo2]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Hmmm, yes.

And I've found that to be good advice!

But tell me, do you think James Foley ran out of words?

 

[Darlene]

I don't care what atrocities have been committed against whom. We are all humans and no matter the beliefs we hold, Jesus, Allah, or whatever you call your higher power would not want us to be treating each other the way we do.

Are you willing to make a wager that your statement is false?

I think you assume Islam's values are similar to yours.

In some respects they are. But in others they are not.

Muslim men are taught to try to emulate the life of the Prophet, if I understand it correctly. And this means one should look at the life of Muhammad for clues about what makes up the ideal Muslim.

Once you read about Muhammad and how his life should be an example for followers until the end of time, and you look at Muhammad's warrior, terrorist, period and you might well conclude that he would really dig the way Muslims are treating infidels and others today.

Except that maybe he might be impatient with today's Muslims for the lack of progress they've made toward getting more of the faithful to persevere with their Jihadi struggles..

Darlene, do your homework about Islam.

I was not saying anything about Islam in particular. I just used to term Allah loosely as a reference. People across the world call their God by different names--not just Jesus. And if you want to get technical, Islam has many peaceful scriptures. Take a look: (note-Islamics aren't the only ones who read the Qur'an)
Verses of the Holy Quran About Peace
Peaceful Verses of Qur an
Belief in Scriptures - The Religion of Islam
Differences Between Radical Islam and True Islam:
Radical Islam vs. Islam Ashbrook
Islam vs. Radical Islam hc Mediate

 

[Rikurzhen]

I would never be so cruel to my children. Everyone has the right to life and the right to live peacefully.

You know that passing reference to bride kidnapping in Sparta. It seems that this idea became popular in Central Asian societies. Imagine if this was YOUR NORMAL reality:

Bride Kidnapping in Kyrgyzstan: 11,800 girls kidnapped each year, 2,000 raped. "In our society, the man is always right." (Kidnapping victim)

Imagine a country where, on average, every 40 minutes a girl is kidnapped for the ostensive purpose of marriage: that is 32 girls per day, for an approximate total of 11,800 kidnapped girls per year. Welcome to Kyrgyzstan, where this has been the grim reality of countless women for decades.

Although precise statistics are difficult to come by, it has been calculated that half of all married Kyrgyz women have been "stolen," as jargon has it, by their future husband -- with about one-third of all marriages being nonconsensual. In the countryside, forced marriages account for a hefty 57 percent of the total. It is no surprise then that, while 92 percent of all kidnapped women end up marrying their abductor, 60 percent of those marriages will eventually lead to divorce.​

 

[GHook93]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

As a Jew I can say a world without my brave, courage and loving Christian brothers is not a world I would want to live in. However, a world without dirty, greedy and supremacist Muslims is a world I DESIRE to live in!

 

[pismoe]

and this idea that everyone has the Right to life , where does that belief come from and does every religion share that belief ??

 

[Darlene]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

As a Jew I can say a world without my brave, courage and loving Christian brothers is not a world I would want to live in. However, a world without dirty, greedy and supremacist Muslims is a world I DESIRE to live in!

True Islamic beliefs are anti-violence in nature, based on what I've read in my research.
Its the Radicals who give Muslims a bad name.

 

[Pogo]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

As a Jew I can say a world without my brave, courage and loving Christian brothers is not a world I would want to live in. However, a world without dirty, greedy and supremacist Muslims is a world I DESIRE to live in!

True Islamic beliefs are anti-violence in nature, based on what I've read in my research.
Its the Radicals who give Muslims a bad name.

-- like fanatics in anything.

 

[Darlene]

Islamism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[bodecea]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

No...the Enlightenment was built despite Christianity....in fact, many of the Enlightenment philosophers had to tread lightly in fear of religious repercussions.

 

[Mojo2]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The bible?

You mean the same bible that is full of murder, rape, incest and more?

THAT bible?

Maybe THAT'S why your viewpoint is always so skewed to the weird.

You seem to be afflicted with short term memory.

Which means you were unable to recall my question.

I'll re-state it here.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

 

[pismoe]

the[so called] fanatics run the show , the [so called] fanatics have the power and the swords , knives , guns and the [so called] Moderates go along to get along so they aren't beheaded !!.