Imagine a world without Muslims

[Delta4Embassy]

I'd be happy if the UN passed a resolution banning all religion. More I think about it, more I'm forced to conceed religion does nothing good for us.

That said...Looking to my west on weather radar right now noting the tornado warnings, God send your angels to protect us.

 

[Mojo2]

I'd be happy if the UN passed a resolution banning all religion. More I think about it, more I'm forced to conceed religion does nothing good for us.

The Ugly American syndrome on full display.

 

[Pogo]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Yeah Dollface,

Someone DID imagine a world without Christianity. Several somones followed that same dream and most of all of the things even you might complain about is the result of those imaginings which became reality.

Look around you.

Like what you see?

Someone a few decades ago imagined a Godless America and SHAZAAAM!

Here it is.

Enjoy!

Uh, where?
When's the last time you left your bunker? 1972?

 

[Mojo2]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

 

[pismoe]

mohamadens --- Mohammedan Define Mohammedan at Dictionary.com ---

 

[Pogo]

Nothing productive can come from imagining such a thing.

John Lennon got a hit record out of it.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

The Enlightenment was based on questioning accepted dogma - religious and otherwise.

In America, the competing theology of the Rationalists (Anglicans) with that of the Evangelicals (Congregationalists, Baptists) inspired the Great Awakening of the 1740s. Puritan, evangelical Christianity since then grew to be a powerful force in the American psyche, through and beyond its founding.

Christianity otherwise, certainly since then, has built more hospitals, schools, shelters, and other charities than any other faith, ever, and not just in America. Christianity is a positive force in and a bedrock of Western civilization, like it or not.

New ways of seeing the world or of thinking arise in reaction to the present ways. Remove the foundation and then you're tasked with creating a new world view in isolation from influence. It doesn't work that well.

 

[Darlene]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

 

[SAYIT]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

The Enlightenment was based on questioning accepted dogma - religious and otherwise.

Often at one's peril:
Galileo, the father of heliocentrism, was tried by the Holy Office, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", was forced to recant and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.
Of course history found him not only innocent but correct.

 

[pismoe]

who da heck is john lemon , I hear the name fro time to time ??

 

[Pogo]

I'm a young guy so all I remember is news of Muslim gripes or conflicts always dominating the news. For a region/religion of so little economic consequences (except for oil) the Muslims of the world sure dominate the news. I'm bone weary of dealing with Muslim strife everywhere and I've actually lived in Muslim countries in the Middle East and North Africa. I was a good guest, I didn't criticize my host, but my eyes were open and I don't really like their societies and more importantly I'd just like to live my life here in the West without dealing with their shit all the damn time.

For some of your people who have more experience in life, when did this Islam focus really begin? Did you hear a lot about Muslims back in the 60s and 70s?

No -- not with the bigotry we get now. At the risk of sounding like Rudy Giuliani I'd have to say 9/11, followed by the right-wing hate machine working overtime to make a political act into a 'religious' one.

After all, religious fanaticism sells better than political.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The bible?

You mean the same bible that is full of murder, rape, incest and more?

THAT bible?

 

[Darlene]

who da heck is john lemon , I hear the name fro time to time ??

John Lennon - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Rikurzhen]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Let's work with that. This viewpoint is foundational to a lot of universalist and modern thought. Imagine the Christianity had never developed and spread the lessons of the Bible. Imagine instead that the model of Sparta had prospered.

Would your world of today be better if Spartan values were used as a foundation for evolving ideologies?

 

[Pogo]

who da heck is john lemon , I hear the name fro time to time ??

John Lemon? I think he was a Limey.

He worked with a pack of dogs called the Beagles. After that he went to Yokohama.

 

[Darlene]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Let's work with that. This viewpoint is foundational to a lot of universalist and modern thought. Imagine the Christianity had never developed and spread the lessons of the Bible. Imagine instead that the model of Sparta had prospered.

Would your world of today be better if Spartan values were used as a foundation for evolving ideologies?

I don't know the Spartan values, so I'm sorry, I can't answer that.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nothing productive can come from imagining such a thing.

John Lennon got a hit record out of it.

I don't remember who it was but one of the RW nutters here posted some horrendous crap about how it was the 'ugliest' thing he'd ever heard. Freaky. Just plain freaky.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

I don't care what atrocities have been committed against whom. We are all humans and no matter the beliefs we hold, Jesus, Allah, or whatever you call your higher power would not want us to be treating each other the way we do.

"I don't care what atrocities have been committed against whom"

Real empathetic soul, aren't you Moonbeam? What if the atrocities were perpetrated against you, or your son, or against the baby you're carrying. Would you care then?

 

[SAYIT]

Imagine a world without Christians or any other religious belief system.

Your life would very likely be measurably more brutal and harsh if that had happened. The Enlightenment is built on a Christian foundation.

Christians over the past millenium have been guilty of their fair share of atrocities.

So is the issue the past or the present? Do you judge the Christian world of today by the events of the past or the present and same with the Muslim world?

Present day christians are raping children and lying to hide the rapists.

Are you saying that the Bible endorses such behavior?

The Bible doesn't endorse any behavior that causes harm to our fellow humans. Jesus walked among sinners and people who believed in many different things. Never did he say an unkind word or treat them badly.

A kind word turns away wrath.

Let's work with that. This viewpoint is foundational to a lot of universalist and modern thought. Imagine the Christianity had never developed and spread the lessons of the Bible. Imagine instead that the model of Sparta had prospered.

Would your world of today be better if Spartan values were used as a foundation for evolving ideologies?

I don't know the Spartan values, so I'm sorry, I can't answer that.

They tossed the lesser babies from a cliff.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I don't know the Spartan values, so I'm sorry, I can't answer that.

Here's a quick synopsis:

Sparta was above all a militarist state, and emphasis on military fitness began virtually at birth. Shortly after birth, a mother would bathe her child in wine to see whether the child was strong. If the child survived it was brought before the Gerousia by the child's father. The Gerousia then decided whether it was to be reared or not. It is commonly stated that if they considered it "puny and deformed", the baby was thrown into a chasm on Mount Taygetos known euphemistically as the Apothetae (Gr., ἀποθέται, "Deposits").[81][82] This was, in effect, a primitive form of eugenics.[81] Sparta is often portrayed as being unique in this matter, however there is considerable evidence that the killing of unwanted children was practiced in other Greek regions, including Athens.[83] There is controversy about the matter in Sparta, since excavations in the chasm only uncovered adult remains, likely belonging to criminals.[84]

When Spartans died, marked headstones would only be granted to soldiers who died in combat during a victorious campaign or women who died either in service of a divine office or in childbirth. . . .
When male Spartans began military training at age seven, they would enter the Agoge system. The Agoge was designed to encourage discipline and physical toughness and to emphasise the importance of the Spartan state. Boys lived in communal messes and, according to Xenophon, whose sons attended the agoge, the boys were fed "just the right amount for them never to become sluggish through being too full, while also giving them a taste of what it is not to have enough."[86] Besides physical and weapons training, boys studied reading, writing, music and dancing. Special punishments were imposed if boys failed to answer questions sufficiently 'laconically' (i.e. briefly and wittily) . . . .

At age 20, the Spartan citizen began his membership in one of the syssitia (dining messes or clubs), composed of about fifteen members each, of which every citizen was required to be a member. Here each group learned how to bond and rely on one another. The Spartans were not eligible for election for public office until the age of 30. Only native Spartans were considered full citizens and were obliged to undergo the training as prescribed by law, as well as participate in and contribute financially to one of the syssitia.[91]

Sparta is thought to be the first city to practice athletic nudity, and some scholars claim that it was also the first to formalize pederasty.[92] According to these sources, the Spartans believed that the love of an older, accomplished aristocrat for an adolescent was essential to his formation as a free citizen. The agoge, the education of the ruling class, was, they claim, founded on pederastic relationships required of each citizen,[93] with the lover responsible for the boy's training.

However, other scholars question this interpretation. Xenophon explicitly denies it,[86] but not Plutarch.[94] . . . .

Plutarch reports the peculiar customs associated with the Spartan wedding night:

The custom was to capture women for marriage(...) The so-called 'bridesmaid' took charge of the captured girl. She first shaved her head to the scalp, then dressed her in a man's cloak and sandals, and laid her down alone on a mattress in the dark. The bridegroom – who was not drunk and thus not impotent, but was sober as always – first had dinner in the messes, then would slip in, undo her belt, lift her and carry her to the bed.[104]​

The husband continued to visit his wife in secret for some time after the marriage. These customs, unique to the Spartans, have been interpreted in various ways. One of them decidedly supports the need to disguise the bride as a man in order to help the bridegroom consummate the marriage. So unaccustomed were men to women looks at the time of their first intercourse. The "abduction" may have served to ward off the evil eye, and the cutting of the wife's hair was perhaps part of a rite of passage that signaled her entrance into a new life. . . .

Another practice that was mentioned by many visitors to Sparta was the practice of “wife-sharing”. In accordance with the Spartan belief that breeding should be between the most physically fit parents, many older men allowed younger, more fit men, to impregnate their wives. Other unmarried or childless men might even request another man’s wife to bear his children if she had previously been a strong child bearer.[110] For this reason many considered Spartan women polygamous or polyandrous.[111] This practice was encouraged in order that women bear as many strong-bodied children as they could. The Spartan population was hard to maintain due to the constant absence and loss of the men in battle and the intense physical inspection of newborns.[112]

Spartan women were also literate and numerate, a rarity in the ancient world. Furthermore, as a result of their education and the fact that they moved freely in society engaging with their fellow (male) citizens, they were notorious for speaking their minds even in public.​