ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - The Next Big National Debate

[Foxfyre]

According to Fox, CNN, and MSNBC this morning, along with Cap and Trade, the next big emphasis of the Obama Administration and Congress will be to deal with illegal immigration. The scuttlebutt seems to be that the President and several in Congress favor some sort of amnesty for those already in the country illegally. Opponents point to strong evidence that amnesty failed under Carter and Reagan and strongly oppose any form of amnesty now.

And of course there is a raging controversy underway re Arizona's new stronger enforcement policy related to this issue.

But the questions are pertinent:

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.

Please keep it civil.

 

[dilloduck]

If profit (in some shape or form) isn't generated by the plan it will fail.

 

[Foxfyre]

If profit (in some shape or form) isn't generated by the plan it will fail.

There are a number of areas of profit that I see though.

1. The profit to the illegals themselves who come here to work or engage in illegal activity.

2. The profit to the employers who want the cheap labor.

3. The profit to politicians who want the votes generated if they can legalize the illegals and/or those who want the illegals legalized.

4. The profit to the citizen at large when the illegals are removed from the equation.

 

[DiamondDave]

Deport all identified illegals immediately.
Prosecute any employers who hire illegals.


AND

Enable state and local law enforcement to more easily assist the border patrol and other fed agencies in identifying and detaining any illegal they find in the course of normal law enforcement activities... so that they may be deported

Take monies away from federal entitlement programs to provide barriers and systems to better secure our borders

 

[Tom Clancy]

First off:

Illegal Immigration is Illegal for a Reason..

Immigration Reform? Yes, we need that, I've heard stories on how bad those places are where they keep them, Let them at least call their Families and make the Facilities more Human...

In my opinion..

If we want to reduce the number of illegals coming each year we should make the Path to Citizenship faster and Easier, enough with all this Bureaucracy.. And Increase the numbers of Visas given to People who want to work here Legally.

Third: It's not fair if we give them Amnesty, people wait Years even Decades for a Citizenship..

 

[Foxfyre]

Deport all identified illegals immediately.
Prosecute any employers who hire illegals.


AND

Enable state and local law enforcement to more easily assist the border patrol and other fed agencies in identifying and detaining any illegal they find in the course of normal law enforcement activities... so that they may be deported

Take monies away from federal entitlement programs to provide barriers and systems to better secure our borders

This is another sticky wicket.

The courts have already ruled that basic public services cannot be denied illegals, so if they are allowed to be here, they are entitled to free healthcare, food stamps, public education, etc. etc. etc. like anybody else.

What politician do you think would stick his neck out far enough to propose a law taking such basic services away from illegals? (I agree that the law should not provide people benefits when they are breaking the law being here, but I also know what a political hot potato that would be.)

And then, as a people are are humane and compassionate, would you oppose folks like the Salvation Army or other charitable organizations providing food, clothing, basic necessities to people no questions asked as they do now?

 

[Foxfyre]

First off:

Illegal Immigration is Illegal for a Reason..

Immigration Reform? Yes, we need that, I've heard stories on how bad those places are where they keep them, Let them at least call their Families and make the Facilities more Human...

In my opinion..

If we want to reduce the number of illegals coming each year we should make the Path to Citizenship faster and Easier, enough with all this Bureaucracy.. And Increase the numbers of Visas given to People who want to work here Legally.

Third: It's not fair if we give them Amnesty, people wait Years even Decades for a Citizenship..

I am all for a guest worker program that includes the following:

1. The work must first be offered to people already in the country legally.

2. The work must be offered for a specific job - the employer should report to authorities the names and ID numers for those put to work.

3. When the job is ended, if the worker doesn't have another job lined up, the workers go home. The employer should be responsible to be sure the workers have transportation home and he should also be responsible to be sure they have adequate house and access for food, emergency medical care, etc. when they are here.

The previous plans suggested for a guest worker program did not require the people to go home immediately when the job was over and specified a number (600,000?) of work permits that would be issued. I think that's dumb. We need however many workers we need and those that come should have a job to come to and should go home when the job is done. And they shouldn't be bringing all their relatives in with them when they come.

 

[mudwhistle]

According to Fox, CNN, and MSNBC this morning, along with Cap and Trade, the next big emphasis of the Obama Administration and Congress will be to deal with illegal immigration. The scuttlebutt seems to be that the President and several in Congress favor some sort of amnesty for those already in the country illegally. Opponents point to strong evidence that amnesty failed under Carter and Reagan and strongly oppose any form of amnesty now.

And of course there is a raging controversy underway re Arizona's new stronger enforcement policy related to this issue.

But the questions are pertinent:

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.

Please keep it civil.

Fuck you!!! [just kidding]

 

[mudwhistle]

I'd like a solution so the Dems would have to resort to something else to throw the race-card.

 

[Oddball]

Other:

1) End the idiotic "war" on (some) drugs.
2) End the socialistic welfare state, up to and including "free" gubmint schools.
3) Immediately deport any and every illegal who has committed a crime.
4) Limited amnesty: A 90-day window to apply for and get your green cards or go home.
5) After that, enforcement of the border shouldn't be that big of a problem that detachments of National Guard troops of the affected states couldn't handle it.
6) Abolish ICE as the utter and total incompetent failure that they are.

Then, anyone who comes to America will have to pull their own load for the services they receive.

 

[Foxfyre]

Other:

1) End the idiotic "war" on (some) drugs.
2) End the socialistic welfare state, up to and including "free" gubmint schools.
3) Immediately deport any and every illegal who has committed a crime.
4) Limited amnesty: A 90-day window to apply for and get your green cards or go home.
5) After that, enforcement of the border shouldn't be that big of a problem that detachments of National Guard troops of the affected states couldn't handle it.
6) Abolish ICE as the utter and total incompetent failure that they are.

Then, anyone who comes to America will have to pull their own load for the services they receive.

We're on the same ball field. Might not take a lot to get us on the same team.

I think ending the 'war' on drugs however, is probably going to have to be its own issue separate from illegal immigration.

I think ending the socialist welfare state is absolutely going to have to be its own issue separate from illegal immigration.

Can we still get it done or do those have to be a component of the immigration package?

 

[Oddball]

They can't be separated because the "war" on (some) drugs is intrinsically related to the violence along the border, and the socialistic welfare state is wed to immigrants who come here and go on the dole.

You can't trim kudzu around the edges.

 

[Terral]

Hi Fox:

But the questions are pertinent:

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

Put everyone into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and take away their business license FOR LIFE. Then nobody will hire the Illegal Aliens and they will find their own way back home ...

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

Nothing! Put everyone into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and take away their business license for life!!! ...

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

Nothing! Put everyone into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and take away their business license for life!!! ...

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?

Nothing! Do not waste valuable resources on people that are NOT even supposed to be here. Put everyone into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and take away their business license for life!!! ...

b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?

You want to aid Illegal Aliens? Great! Use your own money and go for it. Hire an Illegal Alien and go to prison ...

c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

Put everyone into prison that 'hires' Illegal Aliens and take away their business license for life!!! ...

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

No! Stop being foolish. American citizens cannot afford to hand out goodies to everyone coming here illegally. That is why America is going down the tubes! They will GO HOME if nobody will hire them and provide free handouts ...

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.

Please keep it civil.

The simple solution is to ENFORCE the perfectly good immigration and employment laws already on the books. The myth is that the immigration system is broken! The truth is that nobody is enforcing the Rule Of Law, which provides power to the Illegal Alien Magnet drawing Illegal Aliens from all over God's green earth.

Congress and the Obama Administration CANNOT BE TRUSTED to create new immigration laws, when they refuse to 'enforce' the laws already on the books. Illegal Amnesty will kick the back door wide open to yet another 20 million goddamned Illegal Aliens that will expect Illegal Amnesty!!!!!!

GL,

Terral

 

[Foxfyre]

Thanks for your input so far everybody, and each perspective has been pertinent and interesting. Headed for bed now, but will return tomorrow with some additional thoughts.

Good night friends. Sweet dreams.

 

[Luissa]

End the war on drugs, and go after the employer. That is the only way anything will get done.

 

[mudwhistle]

End the war on drugs, and go after the employer. That is the only way anything will get done.

That wouldn't be fair because Obama said he supports what he calls a human-rights issue. So according to him going after employers for doing what he thinks is fair wouldn't be honest.

The solution is require citizenship documentation when applying for jobs. Anyone caught providing false documents is committing a felony by falsifying official documents. If the employer used due diligence to investigate the validity of those documents they shouldn't have to pay a fine.

Europe used Visas for decades. Why not bring that here. Obama and the Dems want to be like Europe. Start with that.

 

[Annie]

My take is that the Democrats are hoping to revive the infighting of the conservatives regarding immigration. That worked in the last election against McCain and got the topic off the war situation, which was improving at the time. They are hoping for a repeat, I'm hoping it doesn't work.

 

[mudwhistle]

My take is that the Democrats are hoping to revive the infighting of the conservatives regarding immigration. That worked in the last election against McCain and got the topic off the war situation, which was improving at the time. They are hoping for a repeat, I'm hoping it doesn't work.

This is about causing divisions and changing the subject.

They knew they were toast when it came to the health care issue so they first tried demonizing the Tea-party movement by claiming racism.

Now they have Arizona to accuse of racism...as they did with Bush after Katrina.

Wonder if anyone is paying attention to this pattern?

 

[sitarro]

Insist on a photograph I.D. to vote along with registration with the I.R.S. to vote, new citizens rushed through by the dimocrats will have no right to vote for a minimum of 5 years if not 10. English will be required for citizenship, both the spoken word and reading comprehension, clean bill of health, no communicable diseases or ones that have been eradicated here in our country......like polio for example. No more stinking Spanish stations, radio or TV! Any money sent out of the country would be heavily taxed.

The problem with giving amnesty to millions of illiterates who don't speak our language or have a real marketable skill is that they will now be a minimum wage employee........ what is the point of them being here if they have no real skill, can't communicate and now work for a lot more money? On top of that....... free health care to people whose culture dictates that they aren't shit if they don't have 10 kids? I work with a lot of hispanic people....... they aren't great workers at all, at 56, I out work most of them that are half my age. I am also very tired of listening to Spanish constantly........ awful language, not as bad as German but obnoxious anyway.

 

[mudwhistle]

Insist on a photograph I.D. to vote along with registration with the I.R.S. to vote, new citizens rushed through by the dimocrats will have no right to vote for a minimum of 5 years if not 10. English will be required for citizenship, both the spoken word and reading comprehension, clean bill of health, no communicable diseases or ones that have been eradicated here in our country......like polio for example. No more stinking Spanish stations, radio or TV! Any money sent out of the country would be heavily taxed.

The problem with giving amnesty to millions of illiterates who don't speak our language or have a real marketable skill is that they will now be a minimum wage employee........ what is the point of them being here if they have no real skill, can't communicate and now work for a lot more money? On top of that....... free health care to people whose culture dictates that they aren't shit if they don't have 10 kids? I work with a lot of hispanic people....... they aren't great workers at all, at 56, I out work most of them that are half my age. I am also very tired of listening to Spanish constantly........ awful language, not as bad as German but obnoxious anyway.

I don't think getting rid of the spanish stations is a good idea. We're supposed to be accepting to other cultures here. As long as they don't take precedence over ours I have no problem with it.

Spanish sounds bad to you because you don't understand it. Also because very little real Spanish is spoken here as in the actual language of Spain. Most of it is a slang form of the language.