If You are Pro-Choice, can You be a Conservative?

[JBeukema]

abortion should have nothing to do with politics..

whether one's life is defended is not important?

 

[DamnYankee]

ultimately, i don't care about your opinino on when life begins. different belief systems have different beliefs as to that issue.

It's not an opinion, you stupid ****

There's this thing called 'science'- look into it.

it's an individual and personal thing

No, it's not. It's an established fact that science defines life and that an unborn child is a living human organism. Try admitting to what you want to do and defending your position if you want to be taken seriously.





















Thank you for demonstrating how fucking stupid you are with that assumption.



Back at ya- do what ya will your own body and life; in the meantime, feel free to join the smart people in this discussion when you know what you're talkng about

Actually, jill, there has only been an attempt to educate you, the uneducated,lying libertine

Yes.... That was quite educational. All educators should employ such methods.

 

[Luissa]

abortion should have nothing to do with politics..

whether one's life is defended is not important?

it is important but has no place in politics. It is a social and religious issue and that is where it should stay and you should never choose how you are going to vote for someone by if they are Pro CHoice or not.

And here is a good quote from a true conservative:
" don't think we should ever tamper with abortion. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends." barry goldwater

"A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right"BG

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country."BG

I think Barry said it best!

 

[DamnYankee]

Did you feel it necessary to include your battle with Jillian in your response to me? If so, why? If you can answer that, I might entertain the idea of responding from my point of view.

just to make it clear, there was no battle with me. That would require I responded in kind. There was, however, a pointless and baseless and precipitous attack on me.

I just chose not to play with his ignorant self.

Oh, you played.... Different playground.

 

[JBeukema]

abortion should have nothing to do with politics..

whether one's life is defended is not important?

it is important but has no place in politics.

How do you figure? It is the politicians (legislators) who vote on behalf of the people regarding the laws on the matter.

It is a social and religious issue and that is where it should stay

Wrong. It is a matter of whether a human life may be ended- that is, whether homicide is justifiable and to e legal in a given instance. That is not a 'private matter'; it is a matte of the utmost importance

and you should never choose how you are going to vote for someone by if they are Pro CHoice or not.

Yes, you should. Whether they vote for against abortion, their position on American sovereignty, their fiscal policies- all should be considered by the intelligent voter.

And here is a good quote from a true conservative:
" don't think we should ever tamper with abortion. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends." barry goldwater

here's the problem with that arguemtn: it argues for the destruction of ALL LAW (in addition to being just plain wring in syang that it'll still be where after the world ends ). observe:

-I don't think we should ever tamper with rape. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

-I don't think we should ever tamper with murder. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with theft. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with racism. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends


--I don't think we should ever tamper with sexual discrimination. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with child abuse. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends


and so on in like manner...

"A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right"BG

Except the assertion is made with no reason. Why can't I kill my child at a year ol? A week? A day? An hour? the day before? Let's go back to the millisecond at which you draw the line

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country."BG

Religion has nothing to do twith this; do try to stay focused on the matetr at hand

 

[Luissa]

whether one's life is defended is not important?

it is important but has no place in politics.

How do you figure? It is the politicians (legislators) who vote on behalf of the people regarding the laws on the matter.



Wrong. It is a matter of whether a human life may be ended- that is, whether homicide is justifiable and to e legal in a given instance. That is not a 'private matter'; it is a matte of the utmost importance



Yes, you should. Whether they vote for against abortion, their position on American sovereignty, their fiscal policies- all should be considered by the intelligent voter.





here's the problem with that arguemtn: it argues for the destruction of ALL LAW (in addition to being just plain wring in syang that it'll still be where after the world ends ). observe:

-I don't think we should ever tamper with rape. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

-I don't think we should ever tamper with murder. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with theft. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with racism. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends


--I don't think we should ever tamper with sexual discrimination. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends

--I don't think we should ever tamper with child abuse. You'll never stamp it out. It's been in existence since the world began, and it's going to be here when the world ends


and so on in like manner...

"A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right"BG

Except the assertion is made with no reason. Why can't I kill my child at a year ol? A week? A day? An hour? the day before? Let's go back to the millisecond at which you draw the line

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country."BG

Religion has nothing to do twith this; do try to stay focused on the matetr at hand

Then why do so many people whose Religion as an excuse to be against abortion and why is it the religious right are the ones so against it and quote the bible any time they get when argueing to make it illegal.
And yes it is private matter, it is none of your business why someones chooses to have an abortion. They are the ones who have to live with their choice not you. You are not the one who is going to raise that child and you sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to vote on what someone else does with their body. Why don't you stay focused asshole.
When someone doesn't agree with you guys, your only answer is to belittle them.

 

[RadiomanATL]

If You are Pro-Choice, can You be a Conservative?

Yes.

There is no single litmus test question for being, "overall", a conservative. A conservative may have a few issues where they lean more to the liberal side of things, but when taken as a whole if most of their beliefs fall on the conservative side of the aisle, then they are conservative. Possibly just not as conservative as others.

 

[JBeukema]

Then why do so many people [use] Religion as an excuse to be against abortion?

They don't 'use it as an excuse', they site it as a reason, as it comprises a significant aspect of their worldview. In either case, that they cite their religion is a on-issue for our purposes, as this discussion was between you and me. All this tangent does is distract the the discussion a hand.

and why is it the religious right are the ones so against it

The religious are not the only persons to oppose 'on demand' abortions, which is what we are discussing. They are merely among the most vocal, which is unfortunate, since many of them refuse to approach the matter from any other direction, rendering them without an argument to be made.

And yes it is private matter, it is none of your business why someones chooses to have an abortion.

Whether someone acts to end another human life is not a 'private matter', be it their child or the owner of the shop they are robbing. Both are homicide by definition, which makes their legality and any policies governmental relating thereto a very public concern.

They are the ones who have to live with their choice not you.

In so much as you do you not have to live with Charles Manson's choices or those of Ricardo Ramirez :rollyes:

if you believe that such cases are in justfiable, then aregue your case for that position;your refusal to discuss what it is you really want as what is is merely implies that you know it is indefensible,

You are not the one who is going to raise that child

Nor would you have been the one to raise Sharon tate's child Does that mean that her death and that of her child are no concern of the law? If you answer anything but 'yes' (thereby arguing for the legalization of all homicides), you are a hypocrit and will have contradicted yourself.

and you sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to vote on what someone else does with their body

These lies and propaganda have been refuted numerous times. We are talking about another human liofe, not about your body.

That you lie to yourself ad everyone else about the most basic of facts demonstrates once again that you know your position is indefensible

.

 

[Ravi]

They are cowards who cannot admit what they are doing and defend their position, so they hide behind lies- and use lies to get SCOTUS to rule in their favor

*yawn* save the hysterical fonts for someone who cares, k? they don't impress me, don't make you right and make you look ridiculous.

ultimately, i don't care about your opinino on when life begins. different belief systems have different beliefs as to that issue. it's an individual and personal thing and all your big bold letters don't make it anything else.

again, you chose to ignore the fact that the U.S. is one of the few places on the planet where people like you politicize the issue. perhaps that speaks more to the lunacy of the religious right here than anything else.

now be kind enough to govern your own body and not others'.

thanks.

Absolutely. No true conservative would want the government to enforce a moral belief system.

 

[Vaccum John]

Yep, but conservative political parties have diverse views: the Liberal Democratic Party in Japan, the Republican Party in the United States, the Conservative Party in Britain, the Liberal Party of Australia, and the Bharatiya Janata Party in India are all considered major conservative parties with varying positions.

 

[Luissa]

Then why do so many people [use] Religion as an excuse to be against abortion?

They don't 'use it as an excuse', they site it as a reason, as it comprises a significant aspect of their worldview. In either case, that they cite their religion is a on-issue for our purposes, as this discussion was between you and me. All this tangent does is distract the the discussion a hand.

and why is it the religious right are the ones so against it

The religious are not the only persons to oppose 'on demand' abortions, which is what we are discussing. They are merely among the most vocal, which is unfortunate, since many of them refuse to approach the matter from any other direction, rendering them without an argument to be made.



Whether someone acts to end another human life is not a 'private matter', be it their child or the owner of the shop they are robbing. Both are homicide by definition, which makes their legality and any policies governmental relating thereto a very public concern.



In so much as you do you not have to live with Charles Manson's choices or those of Ricardo Ramirez :rollyes:

if you believe that such cases are in justfiable, then aregue your case for that position;your refusal to discuss what it is you really want as what is is merely implies that you know it is indefensible,

You are not the one who is going to raise that child

Nor would you have been the one to raise Sharon tate's child Does that mean that her death and that of her child are no concern of the law? If you answer anything but 'yes' (thereby arguing for the legalization of all homicides), you are a hypocrit and will have contradicted yourself.

and you sure as hell shouldn't be allowed to vote on what someone else does with their body

These lies and propaganda have been refuted numerous times. We are talking about another human liofe, not about your body.

That you lie to yourself ad everyone else about the most basic of facts demonstrates once again that you know your position is indefensible

.

Without a womens body that child would not live for nine months to be born, so yes we are talking about my body.

 

[Amanda]

We have a new member to USMB.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/79492-pro-choice-conservative.html

I would like to welcome boxcargirl to this little corner of the Internet.

Her intro got me wondering. She claims to be a conservative and and is pro-choice. In most western nations, you can be a conservative and be pro-choice. But what about America?

Can you be pro-choice and be a conservative?

Hi Toro, I'm Amanda.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Can you be pro-choice and be a conservative?

Of course...

And all it takes is sufficient common sense to recognize that "THE CHOICE" is made at the moment where one CHOOSES to engage in sexual intercourse.

Beyond that, the long standing conservative (American) position that where one individual unjustifiably threatens the life of another, that lethal force is justified; thus where a woman is raped and that unjustifiable act results in conception; taking the life of that pre-born human is justified... although many woman have CHOSEN NOT to do so, which is perfectly valid, as well.

But there is no means to be an American (Conservative) and to adhere to a "RIGHT" to murder innocent human beings, where the CHOICE THAT YOU MADE IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT LIFE. As the RESPONSIBILITIES inherent in YOUR OWN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, preclude you from exercising your rights to the detriment of the rights of another; and where one exercises their rights in such a way that conceives a human life and then takes to rationalizing that this human life is an inconvenience; and that you've a RIGHT TO MURDER IT... is an incontrovertible usurpation of that life.

Nothing particularly complex in this calculation; its just that so many among us, Toro being one of the least amongst us, who simply lack the means to negotiate even this level of pedestrian cultural calculations...

 

[Toro]

Nothing particularly complex in this calculation; its just that so many among us, Toro being one of the least amongst us, who simply lack the means to negotiate even this level of pedestrian cultural calculations...

"Pedestrian cultural calculations."

Says the guy who says you can't be a leftist and be an American.

PI, you're a hoot.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

You keep saying they're answered.. yet you produce no answers... you merely waste time attacking the person who dares force you to think

You asked two questions, and I answered them directly Go back and read again

Read my posts, then look at your questions again. You will see they are answered.

And you did not answer my questions, you merely made statements which actually dodged the questions.

And remember, being defined is not the same as being "attacked."

MM, this idiot is a common troll... Her MO is to argue in endless non sequiturs... no matter what you say; she'll simply pretend that your argument doesn't exist and post on the premise that no one will simply read the thread and therefore learn that she's an imbecile, who you patiently crushed PAGES AGO!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Can you be pro-choice and be a conservative?

Of course...

And all it takes is sufficient common sense to recognize that "THE CHOICE" is made at the moment where one CHOOSES to engage in sexual intercourse.

Beyond that, the long standing conservative (American) position that where one individual unjustifiably threatens the life of another, that lethal force is justified; thus where a woman is raped and that unjustifiable act results in conception; taking the life of that pre-born human is justified... although many woman have CHOSEN NOT to do so, which is perfectly valid, as well.

But there is no means to be an American (Conservative) and to adhere to a "RIGHT" to murder innocent human beings, where the CHOICE THAT YOU MADE IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT LIFE. As the RESPONSIBILITIES inherent in YOUR OWN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, preclude you from exercising your rights to the detriment of the rights of another; and where one exercises their rights in such a way that conceives a human life and then takes to rationalizing that this human life is an inconvenience; and that you've a RIGHT TO MURDER IT... is an incontrovertible usurpation of that life.

Nothing particularly complex in this calculation; its just that so many among us, Toro being one of the least amongst us, who simply lack the means to negotiate even this level of pedestrian cultural calculations...

"Pedestrian cultural calculations."

Says the guy who says you can't be a leftist and be an American.

PI, you're a hoot.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted...

Leftism is wholly antithetical to the principles on which America rests... thus...

THERE ARE NO LEFTIST AMERICANS!

 

[JBeukema]

Without a womens body that child would not live for nine months to be born, so yes we are talking about my body.

A child cannot survive on its own until years of age

the child is not wholly dependent upon for mother for nine months- yet another instance of you showing your ignorance

dependency = apart of, Is a tapeworm part of your body= are you a roundworm? No, it is a separate entity that is simply dependent upon another. A child is dependent upon its caregivers for years.

None of your argument hold water when pierced with logic and reason

it is not your body, it is another human life. science has settled this and only cowardly libertines who canot admit the themselves what it is they seek to justify attempt to deny these facts

MM, this idiot is a common troll... Her MO is to argue in endless non sequiturs... no matter what you say; she'll simply pretend that your argument doesn't exist and post on the premise that no one will simply read the thread and therefore learn that she's an imbecile, who you patiently crushed PAGES AGO!

Six times you have demonstrated your stupidity in that post

Leftism is wholly antithetical to the principles on which America rests... thus...

THERE ARE NO LEFTIST AMERICANS!

You're a fucking idiot.
Define Leftist-

believing in or supporting tenets of the political left
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Define: American-
A demonym referring to a citizen of the united States of America

There are many leftist Americans, you twit

 

[cowboytom]

I'm one of those real conservatives. A womans right to choose is not for me to question. I personally hate abortion but again the law of the land and the freedom of personal choice by women is good enough for me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So far, it is 10:1 in favor, a good development.

I would like to think that most of us are smart enough to realize that political opinion is a spectrum, rather than a strict black-and-white choice. If most of your positions fall on the conservative end of that spectrum, then you're a conservative. You just may not be as conservative as some others are.

And it's my understanding that most female politicians, regardless of party or positions on other issues, are in favor of abortion being legal in some regard. I'm not entirely sure why that is. Perhaps political parties think that a woman who is against legalized abortion won't garner support from other women. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any female politicians who are adamantly against legalized abortion, although there must be a couple somewhere.

 

[Agnapostate]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any female politicians who are adamantly against legalized abortion, although there must be a couple somewhere.

Isolated and backwoods region though it may be, I do believe Alaska is part of America. The same goes for its governor, unfortunately.