If you are HONEST, you are AGNOSTIC

[james bond]

Not at all. You believe what you want to believe without relevant evidence, but that only shows you are running around in circles.

Don't pull me into this. I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[PK1]

Scientists have lots of knowledge about how DNA, RNA, and proteins function. DNA expression via epigenetic processes is an interesting & fruitful area of research.
So, what’s your point?

When an organism can epigenically create clearly beneficial mutations in the same generation when the need arises, the theory that all change is the result of random mutations over time becomes psychobabble

Please feel free to replace science with your psychobabble, but don’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

Epigenetics does NOT invalidate Darwinism (species adaptation via “natural” selection & frequent survival of the fittest).
Epigenetic expression of acquired DNA is another adaptive mechanism in evolution.
.

 

[Frannie]

When an organism can epigenically create clearly beneficial mutations in the same generation when the need arises, the theory that all change is the result of random mutations over time becomes psychobabble

Please feel free to replace science with your psychobabble, but don’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

Epigenetics does NOT invalidate Darwinism (species adaptation via “natural” selection & frequent survival of the fittest).
Epigenetic expression of acquired DNA is another adaptive mechanism in evolution.
.

Duh, wrong again kid. Darwinism states clearly that all changes in the individual are gradual over long periods of time and random. Epigenetics is immediate and is clearly not random.


Lol think first next time

 

[PK1]

Please feel free to replace science with your psychobabble, but don’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

Epigenetics does NOT invalidate Darwinism (species adaptation via “natural” selection & frequent survival of the fittest).
Epigenetic expression of acquired DNA is another adaptive mechanism in evolution.
.

Duh, wrong again kid. Darwinism states clearly that all changes in the individual are gradual over long periods of time and random. Epigenetics is immediate and is clearly not random.

Lol think first next time

Changes “in the individual” are gradual over long periods of time?
You are mixing up phylogeny & ontogeny and clearly don’t understand science.

Epigenetics does not change the genome, but it does affect which genes are expressed in the phenotype.
Epigenetic effects may last a few generations, but it’s the genome that evolves.

You should listen to yourself and “think first next time”. LOL
.

 

[Frannie]

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

Epigenetics does NOT invalidate Darwinism (species adaptation via “natural” selection & frequent survival of the fittest).
Epigenetic expression of acquired DNA is another adaptive mechanism in evolution.
.

Duh, wrong again kid. Darwinism states clearly that all changes in the individual are gradual over long periods of time and random. Epigenetics is immediate and is clearly not random.

Lol think first next time

Changes “in the individual” are gradual over long periods of time?
You are mixing up phylogeny & ontogeny and clearly don’t understand science.

Epigenetics does not change the genome, but it does affect which genes are expressed in the phenotype.
Epigenetic effects may last a few generations, but it’s the genome that evolves.

You should listen to yourself and “think first next time”. LOL
.

Several points on that
1. There is positively no known explanation for how epigenetic expression happens, it however clearly either implies that DNA is conscious or that there is a pathway for the minds consciousness to influence somatic cells enabling a life preserving behavior in the young.
2. Experimentation seems to have ended on the academic front minus drug companies trying to shut off damaging genes, for example can a single exposure to smell and electricity cause expression? and if not what repetition is needed for expression? Experimentation should end only when there is nothing left to learn, not when valid new questions arise and the random mutation theory is threatened.
3. Epigenetics itself is no where near as relevant as the mechanism behind it which puts humanity back to a time before genetics was understood.

I have seen epigenetics in force with a puppy who has never been in the woods know which way to turn in the woods when exposed to prey. They do the correct thing the first time with learning having been impossible. I have seen an older pup run away from a deer herd on an angle which prompts the deer to watch the pup closely. When the pup gets near the wood line the pup then quickly turns and runs at the attentive deer that were perplexed by the canine running away from them that is now suddenly closing on the confused deer that inevitably run into the wood line which the pup has shortened the distance to. This is a mathematical strategy that all wolves use and that requires no learning. If you tried to teach a dog that running away from prey could confuse the prey and result in distances being shortened you would fail.

No need, DNA already executes mathematical formulas. The 99.9 percent of people walking their dog never see this, and again this can only be viewed once in the dogs life, the first time when they act perfectly in the absence of experience and rely entirely on stored info that defies explanation.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Scientists have lots of knowledge about how DNA, RNA, and proteins function. DNA expression via epigenetic processes is an interesting & fruitful area of research.
So, what’s your point?

When an organism can epigenically create clearly beneficial mutations in the same generation when the need arises, the theory that all change is the result of random mutations over time becomes psychobabble

Please feel free to replace science with your psychobabble, but don’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

What biologist says “evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism”?
That statement reflects a simplistic lack of understanding about how biological evolution works.

Mutations & gene expressions (genetics & epigenetics) provide variability of DNA structures that may or may not be passed on to the next generation via Darwin’s “natural selection” or “unnatural cultural selection”.

Evolution selects “successful” genomes whose “behavior” adapts well enough to procreate.
I believe NATURE drives evolution, not a simplistic notion about an unknown/undefined “God”.
However, i am agnostic about original creation.
I am honest about my ignorance.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Lol water is a molecule 2 H 1 O, DNA is not a molecule but a combination of molecules.

Dang this is dumb.

But you go on believing that dna formed itself spontaneously

And you can go on believeing a magical fairy made it, just for you. The people who believe as i do will eventually figure out how it happened, while you sit there and play with your magical fairy tales.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Darwinism states clearly that all changes in the individual are gradual over long periods of time and random. Epigenetics is immediate and is clearly not random

Everything about this is wrong. Not that you inderstand darwinism or epigentics at all. So you wouldn't even understand why you are wrong on every level, were it explained to you.

 

[ding]

So did DNA come first or did life come first,

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

 

[Frannie]

When an organism can epigenically create clearly beneficial mutations in the same generation when the need arises, the theory that all change is the result of random mutations over time becomes psychobabble

Please feel free to replace science with your psychobabble, but don’t expect rational people to take you seriously.

Actually its all documented fact

Fearful memories haunt mouse descendants

Enter hole now

How does epigenetics support YOUR claim or conclusion for ONE “creator” that no one knows anything about??

I have never said that there was one creator that no one knows anything about.

What I said about epigenetics is that it invalidates the concept that evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism

Epigenetics happens purposely not randomly and in under a full generation, though it can not be observed until the next generation. It appears that either DNA has a mind or that the mind of the parent can influence it's somatic cells.

Print it and take it to the bank where your car loan is owned

What biologist says “evolution is based entirely upon random mutations where the beneficial mutations are the cause of change over long periods of time, aka Darwinism”?
That statement reflects a simplistic lack of understanding about how biological evolution works.

Mutations & gene expressions (genetics & epigenetics) provide variability of DNA structures that may or may not be passed on to the next generation via Darwin’s “natural selection” or “unnatural cultural selection”.

Evolution selects “successful” genomes whose “behavior” adapts well enough to procreate.
I believe NATURE drives evolution, not a simplistic notion about an unknown/undefined “God”.
However, i am agnostic about original creation.
I am honest about my ignorance.

How about the professors at Berzerkely who wrote this
Mutations are random

Mutations are random

Mutations can be beneficial, neutral, or harmful for the organism, but mutations do not "try" to supply what the organism "needs." Factors in the environment may influence the rate of mutation but are not generally thought to influence the direction of mutation. For example, exposure to harmful chemicals may increase the mutation rate, but will not cause more mutations that make the organism resistant to those chemicals. In this respect, mutations are random — whether a particular mutation happens or not is unrelated to how useful that mutation would be.

 

[ding]

A lot of people confuse the inherent attributes of life for attributes of evolution.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So did DNA come first or did life come first,

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

 

[Frannie]

So did DNA come first or did life come first,

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So did DNA come first or did life come first,

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

 

[Frannie]

So did DNA come first or did life come first,

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

Yawning

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I dont know. Define "life". Good luck. It's hard to do.

Guess what? You don't know, either.

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

Yawning

...when you should be reading, so that you don't say so many stupid and wrong things about this topic.

 

[Frannie]

Not really.

https://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/80547/excerpt/9780521680547_excerpt.pdf

Characteristics of living things There are seven activities which make organisms different from non-living things. These are the seven characteristics of living organisms.

1 Nutrition Living things take in materials from their surroundings that they use for growth or to provide energy. Nutrition is the process by which organisms obtain energy and raw materials from nutrients such as proteins, carbohydrates and fats.

2 Respiration Respiration is the release of energy from food substances in all living cells. Living things break down food within their cells to release energy for carrying out the following processes.

3 Movement All living things move. It is very obvious that a leopard moves but what about the thorn tree it sits in? Plants too move in various different ways. The movement may be so slow that it is very difficult to see.

4 Excretion All living things excrete. As a result of the many chemical reactions occurring in cells, they have to get rid of waste products which might poison the cells. Excretion is defined as the removal of toxic materials, the waste products of metabolism and substances in excess from the body of an organism.

5 Growth Growth is seen in all living things. It involves using food to produce new cells. The permanent increase in cell number and size is called growth.

6 Reproduction All living organisms have the ability to produce offspring.

7 Sensitivity All living things are able to sense and respond to stimuli around them such as light, temperature, water, gravity and chemical substances.

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

Yawning

...when you should be reading, so that you don't say so many stupid and wrong things about this topic.

LOL can you tell us what is the not stupid thing about this topic?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ding, you responded to a comment taken out of context. I wasn't saying "you dont know, either" to the "definition of life".

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

Yawning

...when you should be reading, so that you don't say so many stupid and wrong things about this topic.

LOL can you tell us what is the not stupid thing about this topic?

Of course, I was referring to evolution and abiogenesis. You knew that,but you decided to pretend to be stupid to avoid having to cpntinue to defend your stupid poisition. That's not an accident. You will always be forced to do that, given your stupid position.

 

[Frannie]

And you still know nothing, either of you

And let the whining begin....

Yawning

...when you should be reading, so that you don't say so many stupid and wrong things about this topic.

LOL can you tell us what is the not stupid thing about this topic?

Of course, I was referring to evolution and abiogenesis. You knew that,but you decided to pretend to be stupid to avoid having to cpntinue to defend your stupid poisition. That's not an accident. You will always be forced to do that, given your stupid position.

Demonstrate abiogenesis...……………………..

Use vaseline

 

[Slyhunter]

it's a mistake to place Agnostic on the same side as Atheist. We are also anti-Atheist. They can't prove God doesn't exist. personally i'm more of a pantheist.