If Obama stays pat, he's won the "Fiscal Cliff" battle.

[BallsBrunswick]

How will increased taxes and the troops coming home help the economy?

Yeah ending pointless wars that have been financial black holes and cost this country over 1.4 trillion since their inception and then actually having a dick and paying for them (which the Bush Administration didn't) will do absolutely nothing to fix the economy.

Don't get me wrong, the wars abroad are retarded. What you fail to realize, however, is that Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan and started another in Libya. It is merely a result of a government out of control. It is the result of a centralized power hungry government you wish to give more money and power to.

Enjoy!!

I think we're pretty much on the same page actually. Don't get me wrong either, I'm no fan of the Obama Administration. I have many qualms with his Administration and way of doing things. However, one of his biggest campaign promises were this country would be out of Afghanistan by 2014. Was it bullshit? I'd say maybe to probably depending on what mood you catch me in. But it was better than Romney's answer of war expansion in the Middle East of probably, maybe, yes, no... what lie do you want me to say?

 

[Avatar4321]

The problem with this country today is the devaluing of the dollar which has resulted in a loss of wealth for the entire country regardless of class. The dollar has lost 35% of it value from the year 2000 and this inflation is the reason the middle class has been getting squeezed so hard. With the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts and the changes in defense spending, this will be a huge step towards dealing with the national debt which along with over saturation is the chief thing fucking the dollar and the economy right now.

And aren't you a bitter mother.

What exactly am I bitter about? Because I don't feel bitter. I am actually very optimistic about the future despite Obama and many of you guys.

And no. defense spending and increasing taxes wont fix the debt. It will slow the economy down which will bring in less revenues.

Inflation will continue until QE3 and the spending stops.

 

[Votto]

Yeah ending pointless wars that have been financial black holes and cost this country over 1.4 trillion since their inception and then actually having a dick and paying for them (which the Bush Administration didn't) will do absolutely nothing to fix the economy.

Don't get me wrong, the wars abroad are retarded. What you fail to realize, however, is that Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan and started another in Libya. It is merely a result of a government out of control. It is the result of a centralized power hungry government you wish to give more money and power to.

Enjoy!!

I think we're pretty much on the same page actually. Don't get me wrong either, I'm no fan of the Obama Administration. I have many qualms with his Administration and way of doing things. However, one of his biggest campaign promises were this country would be out of Afghanistan by 2014. Was it bullshit? I'd say maybe to probably depending on what mood you catch me in. But it was better than Romney's answer of war expansion in the Middle East of probably, maybe, yes, no... what lie do you want me to say?

Forget Afghanistan. Do you know that the US has troops in over 70 countries around the world? Make no mistake, if they "pull out" of Afghanistan they will leave some behind and send more in if needed.

I make no real distinctions between Obama and Romney. After watching the debates it was obvious they were carbon copies of each other regarding foriegn policy. Face it, the GOP is and has been for big government. People just decided to embrace the party that actually admits to it.

 

[Votto]

The problem with this country today is the devaluing of the dollar which has resulted in a loss of wealth for the entire country regardless of class. The dollar has lost 35% of it value from the year 2000 and this inflation is the reason the middle class has been getting squeezed so hard. With the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts and the changes in defense spending, this will be a huge step towards dealing with the national debt which along with over saturation is the chief thing fucking the dollar and the economy right now.

And aren't you a bitter mother.

What exactly am I bitter about? Because I don't feel bitter. I am actually very optimistic about the future despite Obama and many of you guys.

And no. defense spending and increasing taxes wont fix the debt. It will slow the economy down which will bring in less revenues.

Inflation will continue until QE3 and the spending stops.

LOL. Don't you see, the fiat ponzi scheme demands more and more money to be infused. There is no end.

 

[SniperFire]

Hate to admit it, but Votto is probably right.

Hyper Inflation here we come.

 

[Votto]

Hate to admit it, but Votto is probably right.

Hyper Inflation here we come.

Sorry guys.

Trust me, it pains me more to be "right" than it does you.

Not to worry though, when it all goes bust the IMF has already decided how they will "fix" the global economy. No doubt, they will come up with yet another fiat ponzi scheme that is the same as or worse than we have now. The bonus is that the US will no doubt lose more of it's sovereingty to the globalists.

 

[Crackerjack]

Don't get me wrong, the wars abroad are retarded. What you fail to realize, however, is that Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan and started another in Libya. It is merely a result of a government out of control. It is the result of a centralized power hungry government you wish to give more money and power to.

Enjoy!!

I think we're pretty much on the same page actually. Don't get me wrong either, I'm no fan of the Obama Administration. I have many qualms with his Administration and way of doing things. However, one of his biggest campaign promises were this country would be out of Afghanistan by 2014. Was it bullshit? I'd say maybe to probably depending on what mood you catch me in. But it was better than Romney's answer of war expansion in the Middle East of probably, maybe, yes, no... what lie do you want me to say?

Forget Afghanistan. Do you know that the US has troops in over 70 countries around the world? Make no mistake, if they "pull out" of Afghanistan they will leave some behind and send more in if needed.

I make no real distinctions between Obama and Romney. After watching the debates it was obvious they were carbon copies of each other regarding foriegn policy. Face it, the GOP is and has been for big government. People just decided to embrace the party that actually admits to it.

Obama is planning on telling Karzai that the US will start to think about maybe beginning to prepare for leaving if the US can train 23 Afghani brigades to run without major support in two years. We're going to be in Afghanistan for a long time.

Hell, we're still on the Korean peninsula with treaties in place limiting the size and shape of the South Korean military! Anyone who thinks the leadership of either party wants to get us out of Afghanistan is seriously delusional.

 

[Votto]

I think we're pretty much on the same page actually. Don't get me wrong either, I'm no fan of the Obama Administration. I have many qualms with his Administration and way of doing things. However, one of his biggest campaign promises were this country would be out of Afghanistan by 2014. Was it bullshit? I'd say maybe to probably depending on what mood you catch me in. But it was better than Romney's answer of war expansion in the Middle East of probably, maybe, yes, no... what lie do you want me to say?

Forget Afghanistan. Do you know that the US has troops in over 70 countries around the world? Make no mistake, if they "pull out" of Afghanistan they will leave some behind and send more in if needed.

I make no real distinctions between Obama and Romney. After watching the debates it was obvious they were carbon copies of each other regarding foriegn policy. Face it, the GOP is and has been for big government. People just decided to embrace the party that actually admits to it.

Obama is planning on telling Karzai that the US will start to think about maybe beginning to prepare for leaving if the US can train 23 Afghani brigades to run without major support in two years. We're going to be in Afghanistan for a long time.

Hell, we're still on the Korean peninsula with treaties in place limiting the size and shape of the South Korean military! Anyone who thinks the leadership of either party wants to get us out of Afghanistan is seriously delusional.

Here is he difference between a nuclear showdown with Iran/North Korea with:

Romney in power.



And Obummer in power.

 

[SniperFire]

 

[BallsBrunswick]

View attachment 23085

Forget Afghanistan. Do you know that the US has troops in over 70 countries around the world? Make no mistake, if they "pull out" of Afghanistan they will leave some behind and send more in if needed.

I make no real distinctions between Obama and Romney. After watching the debates it was obvious they were carbon copies of each other regarding foriegn policy. Face it, the GOP is and has been for big government. People just decided to embrace the party that actually admits to it.

Obama is planning on telling Karzai that the US will start to think about maybe beginning to prepare for leaving if the US can train 23 Afghani brigades to run without major support in two years. We're going to be in Afghanistan for a long time.

Hell, we're still on the Korean peninsula with treaties in place limiting the size and shape of the South Korean military! Anyone who thinks the leadership of either party wants to get us out of Afghanistan is seriously delusional.

Here is he difference between a nuclear showdown with Iran/North Korea with:

Romney in power.

View attachment 23085

And Obummer in power.

View attachment 23086

I don't know, I understand what you're saying and I might be apt to agree with you but I've been pleased with the social progress being made domestically. I don't think the slow tide of positive change would be occurring without the Obama energy. I was at the very front of a 10,000 people strong gay rights march that spontaneous happened after Santorum's anti-gay bill happened. And there was a lot of positivity about Obama being elected and what that meant for possible social changes in the future, not just for the gay community but for our society as a whole. I think Obama being elected has energized my generation to get politically active. I don't know if Obama the man has anything to do with it but like I said that Obama energy is significant.

I really think Romney would've fucked this country up. Of course we'd survive it and everything would come out alright. But it would be like another Bush dark age.

 

[Votto]

View attachment 23085

Obama is planning on telling Karzai that the US will start to think about maybe beginning to prepare for leaving if the US can train 23 Afghani brigades to run without major support in two years. We're going to be in Afghanistan for a long time.

Hell, we're still on the Korean peninsula with treaties in place limiting the size and shape of the South Korean military! Anyone who thinks the leadership of either party wants to get us out of Afghanistan is seriously delusional.

Here is he difference between a nuclear showdown with Iran/North Korea with:

Romney in power.

View attachment 23085

And Obummer in power.

View attachment 23086

I don't know, I understand what you're saying and I might be apt to agree with you but I've been pleased with the social progress being made domestically. I don't think of the slow tide of positive change would be occurring without the Obama energy. I was at the very front of a 10,000 people strong gay rights march that spontaneous happened after Santorum's anti-gay bill happened. And there was a lot of positivity about Obama being elected and what that meant for possible social changes in the future, not just for the gay community but for our society as a whole. I think Obama being elected has energized my generation to get politically active. I don't know if Obama the man has anything to do with it but like I said that Obama energy is significant.

I really think Romney would've fucked this country up. Of course we'd survive it and everything would come out alright. But it would be like another Bush dark age.

Government should not even be in the business of marriage. Again, there is no solution other than a big government solution for either party.

To pit citizen against citizen by asking them to vote for or against gay marriage is an obamanation. But then, that is how government works. If they treated everyone the same, like polygamists, then there would be no interest in government and no money flowing in, in order to obtain a superior position over our fellow citizens. So those polygamists better start writing those checks and planning those polygamist rights parades or no one will ever give a damn about them.

Then again, I can't really blame those in governemnt for wanting to talk about gay sex. What else are they going to talk about, bringing the troops home or balancing budgets? LOL.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

View attachment 23085

Here is he difference between a nuclear showdown with Iran/North Korea with:

Romney in power.

View attachment 23085

And Obummer in power.

View attachment 23086

I don't know, I understand what you're saying and I might be apt to agree with you but I've been pleased with the social progress being made domestically. I don't think of the slow tide of positive change would be occurring without the Obama energy. I was at the very front of a 10,000 people strong gay rights march that spontaneous happened after Santorum's anti-gay bill happened. And there was a lot of positivity about Obama being elected and what that meant for possible social changes in the future, not just for the gay community but for our society as a whole. I think Obama being elected has energized my generation to get politically active. I don't know if Obama the man has anything to do with it but like I said that Obama energy is significant.

I really think Romney would've fucked this country up. Of course we'd survive it and everything would come out alright. But it would be like another Bush dark age.

Government should not even be in the business of marriage. Again, there is no solution other than a big government solution for either party.

To pit citizen against citizen by asking them to vote for or against gay marriage is an obamanation. But then, that is how government works. If they treated everyone the same, like polygamists, then there would be no interest in government and no money flowing in, in order to obtain a superior position over our fellow citizens. So those polygamists better start writing those checks and planning those polygamist rights parades or no one will ever give a damn about them.

Then again, I can't really blame those in governemnt for wanting to talk about gay sex. What else are they going to talk about, bringing the troops home or balancing budgets? LOL.

Who we elect to represent us as our number one is very significant as a sign of the times. Look of the impact of JFK being elected and how that energized his times. Or even as far back as when Teddy Roosevelt fell ass backwards into the Presidency in his time. Obama will get a lot more credit in history than he deserves just because of the energy around him and it's effect on society.

 

[Votto]

I don't know, I understand what you're saying and I might be apt to agree with you but I've been pleased with the social progress being made domestically. I don't think of the slow tide of positive change would be occurring without the Obama energy. I was at the very front of a 10,000 people strong gay rights march that spontaneous happened after Santorum's anti-gay bill happened. And there was a lot of positivity about Obama being elected and what that meant for possible social changes in the future, not just for the gay community but for our society as a whole. I think Obama being elected has energized my generation to get politically active. I don't know if Obama the man has anything to do with it but like I said that Obama energy is significant.

I really think Romney would've fucked this country up. Of course we'd survive it and everything would come out alright. But it would be like another Bush dark age.

Government should not even be in the business of marriage. Again, there is no solution other than a big government solution for either party.

To pit citizen against citizen by asking them to vote for or against gay marriage is an obamanation. But then, that is how government works. If they treated everyone the same, like polygamists, then there would be no interest in government and no money flowing in, in order to obtain a superior position over our fellow citizens. So those polygamists better start writing those checks and planning those polygamist rights parades or no one will ever give a damn about them.

Then again, I can't really blame those in governemnt for wanting to talk about gay sex. What else are they going to talk about, bringing the troops home or balancing budgets? LOL.

Who we elect to represent us as our number one is very significant as a sign of the times. Look of the impact of JFK being elected and how that energized his times. Or even as far back as when Teddy Roosevelt fell ass backwards into the Presidency in his time. Obama will get a lot more credit in history than he deserves just because of the energy around him and it's effect on society.

You trash "W" but praise Obama? What exactly is fundamentally different from the two? Granted, one seems more retarded than the other.

I scoff at the notion that Teddy Roosevelt and FDR were great presidents. The only reason they obtain such status is because they led the country into the progressive big government era, so the powers that be propogandize them as being "great".

In reality, men like FDR tried to destroy the Constitution by such acts as the Court packing Scheme and by placing Japanese Americans behind bars etc. There is nothing great about them. FDR was a monster.

 

[auditor0007]

We have to get serious about the National Debt, we need more spending cuts too. I think everyone should scarifice, rich, poor and in-between.

I think we need to realize what our real problems are first. The vast majority of our current debt is tied to two things, a very bad economy and tax rates that are slightly too low. We need to raise taxes slightly. The rest is just getting the economy going again. If we can get the economy to grow at a 4% clip, revenue will increase, and a good chunk of spending on welfare programs will be reduced. All of what we are seeing now is just a blip due to the long recession.

This does not mean we don't have big problems, because we do. Long term spending on SS and Medicare is way underfunded. We have to address this, especially when it comes to Medicare. Either we need to increase taxes substantially for everyone, or we need to make some cuts in Medicare. For a long time, I have been a big proponent of raising the retirement age for Medicare. I still am. I'm just not sure when it's going to happen. Something tells me we will put it off for as long as possible, which unfortunately will make the eventual fix that much tougher.

 

[Sallow]

We have to get serious about the National Debt, we need more spending cuts too. I think everyone should scarifice, rich, poor and in-between.

There are smart ways to cut spending and stupid ways.

Obama went with "smart" when he enacted the ACA..which saved about 750 Billion dollars in Medicare spending. Another good one was getting the banks out of student loans.

But of course people are going to grouse about those sorts of spending cuts. Since they are the real pork that enriches to the private sector.

That's funny. Obama "saves" 3/4's of a trillion bucks by spending $2.6 Trillion..
Yep, left wing math.
You people are very funny. In one rant you are screaming about cuts to medicare. On the other, you are cheering for the gutting of medicare.
Left wing math. Where a reduction in an increase is viewed as a "cut".
Without looking it up, explain the term "baseline budgeting".
Don't look it up. I will be able to tell if you did.
The answer you give is key. Goes to your credibility.

You're not making any sense.

 

[Sallow]

We have to get serious about the National Debt, we need more spending cuts too. I think everyone should scarifice, rich, poor and in-between.

I think we need to realize what our real problems are first. The vast majority of our current debt is tied to two things, a very bad economy and tax rates that are slightly too low. We need to raise taxes slightly. The rest is just getting the economy going again. If we can get the economy to grow at a 4% clip, revenue will increase, and a good chunk of spending on welfare programs will be reduced. All of what we are seeing now is just a blip due to the long recession.

This does not mean we don't have big problems, because we do. Long term spending on SS and Medicare is way underfunded. We have to address this, especially when it comes to Medicare. Either we need to increase taxes substantially for everyone, or we need to make some cuts in Medicare. For a long time, I have been a big proponent of raising the retirement age for Medicare. I still am. I'm just not sure when it's going to happen. Something tells me we will put it off for as long as possible, which unfortunately will make the eventual fix that much tougher.

Raising the Medicare age won't achieve any savings. It will probably have the opposite effect.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama gets what he wants whether or not we go off the fiscal cliff. What republicans should do is walk away and let it happen.

 

[Crackerjack]

obama gets what he wants whether or not we go off the fiscal cliff. What republicans should do is walk away and let it happen.

That will really show the voters that the GOP isn't just about politics and really has the country's best interests at heart.

 

[Sallow]

And he may get what he wants in terms of the debt ceiling as well.

At this point, there is almost no upside to dealing with Republicans. Actually..there is none.

Once the Fiscal Cliff is done, so are they. They will lose the house in 2014.

Obama gets to sunset the Bush Tax cuts..and get the Defense cuts that were necessary to balance the budget. And he's got a great deal of leverage..since he can soften those.

Well played.

Personally..I didn't see this when the sequester deal was done.

It's well-played if you have broccoli for brains.. Someone has to explain to thinking folks why the Bush Tax Cuts were "what got us into this mess" ------ but the card on the table is to PRESERVE the bulk of the Bush Tax Cuts so that the middle class is not held hostage. The only diff between the gosh-awful Bush cuts and what the infant Prez has been incessantly whining for is a meaningless 2% diff for the top 1%.

It's like whining because your parents won't buy you a double scoop, so you get dragged screaming out of the ice cream store with NOTHING. Same magnitude of importance to the rest of your life.

NOTHING has meaning in this Mexican stand-off ---- unless you're the Mad Hatter.

Just the fact that EVERY OPPORTUNITY since the election --- all you hear from Dear Leader is about "the rich".. There is no plan. The King has no clothes or tools.

"I" have "broccoli" for brains and yet you basically can't, as a grownup, discuss what a politically astounding move this was without deflecting into some hyperbolic mess that really doesn't have much to do with the topic.

In 2010 the public gave Obama a house filled with a majority of hard right radical right wingers bent on making him a one term President. And they did some very radical maneuvers to make it so, like evoking a record number of filibusters and holding the debt ceiling hostage.

I don't care where you sit politically..but this was a master stroke, and people who are political junkies should see that.

He got his opposition to trap themselves and declare victory about it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_paKxXLsenA]Boehner Christmas II - YouTube[/ame]

That's just really amazing.

 

[Si modo]

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck what Obama, the Dems, or the GOP "wins". What does the COUNTRY win?