If guns are needed for self-protection, then who was the Oregon mass killer protecting himself from?

[2aguy]

The original idea of the second amendment is to defend oneself against governmental oppression

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Australian gun crime is on the rise...they just had a 15 year old shoot a police officer with a hand gun.....do you think he got that legally? And they have seen a 50% increase in gun crime.

Japan...is a police state...they keep gun crime down with long prison sentences and vast police and prosecutorial powers that you lefties would never want here...do you want police to be able to search you whenever they want...go into your homes 2 times a year, or whenever they decide they want to ..and you can't stop them?

And do you want the prosecutors to have the power Japanese prosecutors have.....?

I doubt it.

 

[2aguy]

The original idea of the second amendment is to defend oneself against governmental oppression

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

And about Australia...

Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone

Gun found every two days in Melbourne s red zone

Police are discovering guns in cars every two days in Melbourne's north-west, which has been dubbed the "red zone" by officers concerned about a growing gangster culture in the region.

The alarming figure, obtained from The Police Association, follows anecdotal and statistical evidence of a burgeoning gun culture among young men in the city's north-western fringe.

Police working in the large region, which includes Broadmeadows, Sunshine and Werribee, have reported:

Advertisement

• Firearm-related incidents, such as drive-by shootings, every six days.
• An increasing trend of children as young as 16 carrying guns.
• Regularly finding guns in cars, including sawn-off shotguns and an automatic machine gun, during routine car intercepts.
• Guns stolen from rural homes being used in violent crime in the north-west. Some 530 guns were stolen in rural Victoria in 2013.

It comes as the Crime Statistics Agency released figures on Thursday showing an almost threefold jump in firearm offences in the north-west over the past five years, from 581 in the year to March 2011 to 1332 in the 12 months to April 2015.

A similar trend was reported statewide, with firearm offences rising more than 50 per cent to 13,626.

The figures follow recent high-profile shootings in which two men have been killed - one in Keysborough, the other in Altona Meadows - and significant gun seizures by police. In March, an automatic machine gun was found during a car intercept in Sunbury, and in February, an M16 assault rifle and Thureon machine gun were seized in raids on homes in the city's west.


news video on increasing gun crime...shows robbery and injured...

Gun crime red zone

Immigrant teen shoots cop with handgun...

Teen's Slaying Of Australian Police Worker 'Linked To Terror'

The 15-year-old, who is of Iraqi-Kurdish background and was born in Iran, shot a New South Wales police finance worker with a handgun at close range as the man left work in the western Sydney suburb of Parramatta on Friday, police Commissioner Andrew Scipione (pictured right above, alongside state Premier Mike Baird) said. The teen then fired at responding officers, who shot and killed him, Scipione said.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The original idea of the second amendment is to defend oneself against governmental oppression

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

 

[Redfish]

I just don't get it. Someone help me out here. And if you quote the 2nd Amendment, please include the part with the word "Militia" in it too, which would probably be the first time in your life you would do so.

Knives are used to eat, but they are also used to kill. Should we ban kinves? How about pressure cookers and fertilizer?

 

[Redfish]

The original idea of the second amendment is to defend oneself against governmental oppression

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

 

[2aguy]

The original idea of the second amendment is to defend oneself against governmental oppression

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

You keep throwing out ...

obstructed all sane measures

We have addressed each point you guys bring out...and shown that it will do nothing to decrease crime, or mass shootings, but is really just targeted at law abiding people...who don't commit crimes with guns...

In the real world...proposing new laws to stop crime...that don't actually stop crime....is insane......so would you care to enlighten us as to these "Sane" measures that actually work?

 

[2aguy]

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

Why be skimpy.....didn't you see the movie Zombieland....never be shy about ammo....

 

[Iceweasel]

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Failure to demonize guns is gun worship to someone like you. My guns make me safer, you're a liar.

 

[Penelope]

I don't KNOW why we have to go through this EVERY TIME. when they care about 3000 babies being aborted daily, then they can whine over GUN deaths
the guy could have just used a van filled with fertilizer. We've seen that a few times. so really.

Where do some of you live. I realize I do not live in a huge city anymore, but crime is everywhere. If your neighborhood is so bad, then go to the city council and help get it cleaned up without more violence.
We are not back in the 1800's. If so all able bodied men would be in reserve militia , ready to battle Britain , France and Indians and civil wars, Mi didn't even exist back then.

Penelope....can you name a method of self defense that is as effective as guns?

Brains

 

[2aguy]

I don't KNOW why we have to go through this EVERY TIME. when they care about 3000 babies being aborted daily, then they can whine over GUN deaths
the guy could have just used a van filled with fertilizer. We've seen that a few times. so really.

Where do some of you live. I realize I do not live in a huge city anymore, but crime is everywhere. If your neighborhood is so bad, then go to the city council and help get it cleaned up without more violence.
We are not back in the 1800's. If so all able bodied men would be in reserve militia , ready to battle Britain , France and Indians and civil wars, Mi didn't even exist back then.

Penelope....can you name a method of self defense that is as effective as guns?

Brains

Do you pull them out of your head and hit the bad guy.....or do you have telekinis abilites?

 

[Penelope]

Living in the country was scarier than living in town or city environment. Someone pulling in the driveway in an unknown to you vehicle can really make one nervous. Have good security.
Neighborhood watch, we have that here, no windows in garage, no widows on front door, autos in drive even if not working, leave a light on at night, movement lights (don't turn the off like my husband since we have so many critters), double bolted doors, slow driving cars-casing out neighborhood, barking dogs, can of hornet spray,
most people who break in a house, have usually cased it out in advance and do not want to run into someone and most are for robbery.

Rapist and serial killers different story of course. Have a safe place , strong door on the bedroom, and a CELL phone. Put PVC pipe in widows. You have to stay alive till police get there. Do not open the door to anyone you don't know,

that includes people carrying bibles.

 

[The Professor]

I just don't get it. Someone help me out here. And if you quote the 2nd Amendment, please include the part with the word "Militia" in it too, which would probably be the first time in your life you would do so.

You seem to think that the word “militia” in the Second Amendment is significant. It isn't. According to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) the right to keep and bear arms is a personal right and has nothing to do with the militia!! Here are the relevant portions of the SCOTUS decision in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER (Decided June 26, 2008):

Held:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.

(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.

(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.

(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual-rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp.54–56.

District of Columbia v. Heller 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

Conclusion: The right to keep and bear arms is a personal right completely unrelated to membership in a militia. However the right is not absolute and may be subject to reasonable restrictions. What constitutes a reasonable restriction is a matter for the courts to decide. Anyone who is unaware of the SCOTUS decision needs to find different news sources. Try the Drudge Report.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Except that is never the case and has never been the case either.

Not one single Gun Fetishist lifted a firearm to protect the rights of Padilla.

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If guns are needed for self-protection, then who was the Oregon mass killer protecting himself from?

Everyone, apparently. 13 guns is an ISIS level of protection, and just as safe for the rest of us.

 

[Staidhup]

The bottom line remains, there are mentally ill, sick, disturbed, and unbalanced people in the world that will and can kill at at the drop of a hat regardless if there are laws on the books limiting ones right to own a gun. Maybe its time to address treating the mentally ill.

 

[Little-Acorn]

if you quote the 2nd Amendment, please include the part with the word "Militia" in it too, which would probably be the first time in your life you would do so.

Not much point in replying to someone who smears and lies about you up front. He obviously isn't interested in truth.

(yawn)

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It hasn't been the case because there are millions of armed Americans with plenty of reprisals to give out. If we ban guns then we may end up like Russia where not we, but the state will be the final authority on all things. After all, what can the average Russian do except be conned into a communist agenda? That is the nightmare scenario our founding fathers fought so hard to escape from.

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

You will when some creep shoots your dick off because nobody is a match for a gun, and I don't care how bad you are.

 

[MaryL]

I just don't get it. Someone help me out here. And if you quote the 2nd Amendment, please include the part with the word "Militia" in it too, which would probably be the first time in your life you would do so.

"You can pry my gun from my cold dead hands".The NRA motto, along with mass murderers, so it seems. Let's rescind the second amendment, firearms are just toys. Deadly toys. Don't need 'em anymore.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Where do some of you live. I realize I do not live in a huge city anymore, but crime is everywhere. If your neighborhood is so bad, then go to the city council and help get it cleaned up without more violence.
We are not back in the 1800's. If so all able bodied men would be in reserve militia , ready to battle Britain , France and Indians and civil wars, Mi didn't even exist back then.

Police are only good after a crime is committed. But once somebody guns you down and takes your purse, do you really care about the cops at that point?

Much of the crime that takes place here are from people that live outside of our suburb. How can city council help with that? Are we to put up a fence around the entire city and have a guard at specific gates?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Your scare tactic lacks credibility. Has that happened in Australia or Japan or any of the other nations that have sane gun laws?

Those countries are also less populated and ethnically homogenous and as a result, they have a lesser tendency to commit violent crimes. Australia is fast changing these days however and it may be mired in violence as much as us.

Blaming diversity for rampant gun deaths in this nation is a cop out.

Guns are worshiped by a small segment of this society that have obstructed all sane measures to curb this violence.

Right now a citizen is in more danger from another citizen than the government and no amount of guns is going to make someone any safer. More guns are not the answer, they are the problem.

Great, so when your house is broken into by a thug that wants to rob and kill you. Will you just yell at him and hit him with a towel?

If that same dude enters my home he will receive two 38 special hollow point rounds in his center of mass.

I will survive, you----------------probably not. But you won't have any evil guns around you. Idiot.

For starters I don't live in a bad neighborhood like you do.

Secondly I have deterrents that keep dumb dudes like you who want to steal away from breaking and entering. In the event that someone of your IQ level were to be stupid enough to actually break in they would have to deal with the fact that cops would be there within 2 minutes of the alarm being activated since I live less than a mile from the police station. They will be running away as soon as it starts going off.

But let's assume that they are actually as stupid as you are and want to try and take me on. The fact that I am 6'2", work out at the gym every other day, ex-military and a biker I really don't see myself having any problem at all dealing with a low IQ punk like yourself.

Punks like you look for softer targets because basically you are all cowards which is why you need your guns to make you feel like a man. I don't need a penis substitute.

You will when some creep shoots your dick off because nobody is a match for a gun, and I don't care how bad you are.

The average handgun is notoriously inaccurate. Some punk dumb enough to break into a home with deterrents and people at home is not going to be smart enough to have learned how to shoot properly. Hitting a moving target is considerably more difficult. Doing so in strange surroundings where you don't know where anything or anyone is and you are stressed out of your mind because you are breaking the law makes it next to impossible.

Ask any cop and they will tell you that you need a minimum of 20' in order to draw, aim and fire before the person you are trying to shoot can reach you.

Even trained police officers have a problem hitting their targets. Ferguson was a classic example of someone trained with handgun not being able to hit a moving target.

So reality is that if you are dumb enough to believe that a gun is going to "protect you" then you probably won't be around to regret believing that fallacy when it comes down to crunch time.

Only in Hollywood does the good guy manage to shoot the bad guy. In real life you are half asleep and still groping around trying to find your gun before the bad guy has reached you and then you are just showing him where to find your gun.

A gun is only useful if you are wide awake and you can clearly see your target who is exactly far away to hit from that distance and not close enough to reach you and standing completely still giving you the largest possible target.

That doesn't happen in real life.