Zone1 If God Is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving, Then Why Didn't He Create Us To Be Perfect Like Himself

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

... because the creator is not All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving

 

[sparky]

is not John????? ~S~

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Long ago when I realized religions were all made up, I still had a personal relationship with god. But then I realized I was just talking to myself.

Every once in a great while, I still talk to him. But then I realize what I'm doing.

I love it when bad things happen to good people all around me but not to me and I say "if there was a god, he would have done that to me not them".

So why do you people drag your asses down here to troll. We all understand you don't believe. Time for you to GFY

 

[sparky]

So why do you people drag your asses down here to troll. We all understand you don't believe. Time for you to GFY

Actually we do, despite the hierarchy Carl

~S~

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

I have found my peace you find yours.

We all see your tormented soul. Some may care. I don't.

 

[sealybobo]

So why do you people drag your asses down here to troll. We all understand you don't believe. Time for you to GFY

Was this thread meant for Christian’s or theists only? Sorry, I’ll let you tell them why. And I won’t point out your answer is bullshit.

Sorry Carl. I don’t live in your household. I don’t have to keep my opinion to myself.

 

[sealybobo]

Humans are not the first humanlike creatures God created, we are the last...

We’re not even the last.

 

[sealybobo]

If God has the power to do anything imaginable and knows all things, certainly He would have the power to make us to be exactly like himself. Certainly He would know how to make us perfect like himself, and if He truly loves us, then he would certainly make us to be the best we could be. So why did God create us as imperfect sinful beings instead of perfect beings just like himself?

Some have answered this by saying that God gave us free will and because of this mankind has chosen to be imperfect. However, this does not really answer the dilemma. If God created us to be perfect like Himself, then we would make perfect choices given that we are created to be perfect even as God is perfect. Does God have free will? Does God make bad choices?

As a Christian, how would you respond to this problem of imperfect and evil?

Did you only want theists to answer your question? Carl from Ann Arbor is suggesting my opinion is not welcomed in this thread.

But you are specifically asking Christian’s this question. Oops.

 

[sealybobo]

So why do you people drag your asses down here to troll. We all understand you don't believe. Time for you to GFY

I re read the question and he is specifically asking Christian’s. Sorry

 

[onefour1]

We are a part of his creation.

Yes we are. And I believe God created us by combining self-existing intelligence and self-existing matter through the process of procreation.

So perfect world to me means perfect everything which is what the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve began as, but what you claim was impossible for God to do.

Doesn't sound like you can grasp the idea that Adam and Eve were not perfect in knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. Is it your opinion that Adam and Eve had and perfect knowledge just as God the Father has in the Garden of Eden?

But if you want to contend God is capable of creating a perfect world but not perfect beings then I'm afraid you will have to contend with God causing floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, frigid cold, extreme heat, etc. all of which take innocent lives.

I have never argued that God could not create a perfect world. Prove it to me from my posts! After Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the earth itself fell from its paradisiacal state. The animals, plants and trees of this world die. Floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, frigid cold, extreme heat, etc all exist in a fallen world. God caused the earth to become a less pleasant place to live to give Adam and Eve experience of good and evil. I don't have to contend with God over this because it was all part of the plan of this temporal mortal world. This earth will become an extension of the kingdom of heaven and the meek will inherit the earth.

 

[onefour1]

So you are saying God didn't create the Garden of Eden or Adam or Eve to be perfect. God created the Garden of Eden to be flawed. God created Adam to be flawed. And God created Eve to be flawed.

Are you even listening to what you are having to believe? Because by your account God did a pretty bad job of creation.

So you are saying God didn't create the Garden of Eden or Adam or Eve to be perfect. God created the Garden of Eden to be flawed. God created Adam to be flawed. And God created Eve to be flawed.

Are you even listening to what you are having to believe? Because by your account God did a pretty bad job of creation.

You are not incorporating what I have been saying but have tried to twist my words. God has always been able to create an immortal being who is not in a fallen state. However, the intelligence within Adam and Eve while in the Garden of Eden with an immortal perfect body was not perfect in KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, UNDERSTANDING, etc. In order for Adam and Eve to progress in intelligence, God planned to have Adam and Eve go through a temporal existence where they would experience and learn good and evil in a fallen world. After this life, God would again bring about the immortal state of all mankind through the resurrection of the dead. This earth again would receive a state of not being a fallen world and would become a celestial world. God would do all this because he could never create the intelligences to be perfect.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Ding will not understand Restoration theology, onefour1. You will have be more clear.

 

[onefour1]

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You just said it was true that the account in Genesis is saying God created a perfect world with perfect beings. But then you argued that "Since Adam and Eve were not perfect in the Garden, God did not create them perfect."

Which is it? Did Go create a perfect world with perfect beings? Or did God create a perfect world with flawed beings?

The state of the earth was a paradise compared to our fallen world today and since the fall. The earth could have been in a perfect state or at least it was in a state to have immortal beings on it. However, the earth itself went into a fallen state along with Adam and Eve. We know of a certainty that Adam and Eve were not perfect like God. They did not have a knowledge of good and evil and thus were not perfect in their intelligence. God could not create them perfect because He could not create their intelligence. They did not know good from evil and they were in a state of innocence. God already knew good from evil and was perfect in his knowledge. Thus Adam and Eve were not perfect in this regard. The whole point of the fall was to have Adam and Eve experience a world containing much good and much evil so they could learn and grow and come to know good from evil as God does. Whether the earth itself was perfect or not is not fully known either. The earth itself went through a fall and eventually will become a part of heaven. We do know that it was also in a state to continue as if immortal and had no death upon it. The earth itself seems to go through a progression into a state of perfection. Whether the earth was perfect in the garden or not I do not know, but it will, as the righteous of the earth will inherit it in the eternities. So to address your inquiry - perfect world - unknown, imperfect beings - yes! My personal opinion is that the earth itself had to undergo a progression just as mankind but I don't currently know of any scripture to verify that. If you know a verse that states the earth was perfect in all ways in Garden of Eden, please present it.

 

[onefour1]

Joseph Smith was wrong. Science says otherwise and so does logic. According to his logic all matter and energy must have always have existed and was never created. That's a ridiculous belief. The presence of matter and energy literally creates the presence of space and time and can only become more disordered after that. Matter and energy can never be an eternal source of creating universes.

Believe as you will. I beg to differ.

 

[onefour1]

Then you haven't been paying attention:

1. Red shift, CMB, Friedman's solution to Einstein's field equation, red shift, FLoT, SLoT, inflation, the existence of paired particles and quantum mechanics all say the universe was created from matter and energy that was not pre-existing.

A theory not a proof.

1. The SLoT precludes matter and energy from being an eternal source for creating universes.

God doesn't

1. Genesis says God did create a perfect world and perfect beings, so God is capable of creating a perfect world with perfect beings.

Show me the verses that state word was in an absolute perfect state. I know and believe you also know Adam and Eve were not perfect like God.

1. The accounts of the flood and Jesus calming the storm demonstrate God is capable of controlling natural disasters and thus according to your belief is responsible for killing innocent people.

Yes, God ended the temporal mortal life of some on the earth. Is he responsible for it? Yes. Is God allowed to justly remove mankind from the earth at his will? Yes I believe so. And you believe all the people on the earth were perfectly innocent? WOW! God can command the elements and the elements can obey. Not sure exactly what you are arguing.

 

[onefour1]

Did you only want theists to answer your question? Carl from Ann Arbor is suggesting my opinion is not welcomed in this thread.

But you are specifically asking Christian’s this question. Oops.

Yes, my question was addressed to Christians. However, the site does not exclude others.

 

[ding]

Exactly ding

It's a grand metaphor

and you're putting up a rather <informed> debate for those here that simply can not recognize that fact

~S~

Yeah, I think going any further would be beating a dead horse.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

How did the Mormons get John 10: 33-36 so wrong?

Jesus answers them “Many good works I have shown you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?” The Jews answered him “For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, and because you, being a man, make yourself God”.

But It Does Say "The" Father

Notice that there is no word for "the" before "son of God." So Jesus was saying that he was a son of God, just like all the other Chosen People believed they were. ( I changed it from "thought they were" because Theism is not a thought; it is an emotion derived from desperation and confusion)

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Show me the post you are referring to.

They were immortal but they were not perfect in knowledge, wisdom, understanding, etc. as I've explained before. If Adam and Eve were perfect, they would not have needed to come to this earth to learn good and evil and experience mortality. If they didn't know good and evil then they were not as perfect as God Himself. Thus Adam and Eve were NOT perfect. Case Closed.

True I also believe that matter was never created or made according to the revelations of God given to the Prophet Joseph Smith:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

Since Adam and Eve were not perfect in the Garden, God did not create them perfect. He probably made them as perfect as he could but their intelligence, since it was not created or made and neither indeed can be, still needed to advance by going through this life's experiences to learn good and evil.

Pre-Life in the Mother Universe

When intelligence and the life-force already exist, there's no need for a god. That is Intelligent Self-Design and Self-Creation as beings in this universe. So the ruling class's invention of religion was intended to humiliate its subjects and for them to identify it as one with the Higher Power. Its preachers say we are only creatures.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

when a people become successful they become proud. Then they forget the things that made them successful (i.e. they forget God) and they fall. But from this fall (i.e. suffering)

Tyrants Make Us Believe That Pride Is a Sin So They Can Humiliate Us