If George HW Bush didnt get re-elected - why should Obama?

To answer the OP:

George H.W. Bush was opposed in 1992 by a sane person with a fair grasp of reality who wasn't going to govern according to weird ideas properly the business of fringe cults. That's not true of Obama in 2012.

It really couldn't be any simpler than that. In my opinion, he really doesn't deserve a second term, but he'll probably get one, because the alternative is just appalling. Sad but true.

Yeah, lower taxes, living within our means, less government inferference in our lives, and actually living according to our Constitution. That's just absolutely appalling!

But nobody is running on that platform.

Romney is running on the, "You real problem is that you haven't been screwed hard enough by a big corporation. Let's me show you what that feels like!"

Cain is just plain nuts. Perry used to be responsible, but he's going for the nutters.
 
Yeah, lower taxes, living within our means, less government inferference in our lives, and actually living according to our Constitution. That's just absolutely appalling!

When you look at the details of what's actually meant by those deliberately-vague statements, indeed it is.
 
Yeah, lower taxes, living within our means, less government inferference in our lives, and actually living according to our Constitution. That's just absolutely appalling!

When you look at the details of what's actually meant by those deliberately-vague statements, indeed it is.

There is nothing vague about the statements.
 
Yeah, lower taxes, living within our means, less government inferference in our lives, and actually living according to our Constitution. That's just absolutely appalling!

When you look at the details of what's actually meant by those deliberately-vague statements, indeed it is.

There is nothing vague about the statements.

Yes, there is, and I'll prove it to you.

"Lower taxes" -- claimed by Ronald Reagan, but in fact, most taxpayers experienced increased taxes as a result of his eight years in office, between modest cuts in income taxes and substantial increases in payroll taxes. Only the wealthy actually saw a tax cut.

"Living within our means" -- generally directed at the federal government, but only applied in practice to some forms of government spending and not others; the military gets a blank check, so does federal law enforcement and the national security state, and so do corporate subsidies an bailouts.

"Less government interference in our lives" -- true only if "we" are big business magnates and millionaire bankers, and "our lives" means our financial and business dealings, especially the "freedom" to squash competition, drive down wages, and plunder the environment; government interference in the efforts of any small businesses to compete with the big boys, and in the private lives of pregnant women and gay people, are fine.

"Actually living according to the Constitution" -- used as a catch-all to assert that anything the person happens not to like is illegal, and yet some things that clearly ARE against the Constitution, such as the warrantless wiretaps authorized in the Patriot Act that violate the Fourth Amendment, or locking people up without trial or recourse as "enemy combatants" which completely violates the entire concept of due process of law, seem to meet with approval.
 
When you look at the details of what's actually meant by those deliberately-vague statements, indeed it is.

There is nothing vague about the statements.

Yes, there is, and I'll prove it to you.

"Lower taxes" -- claimed by Ronald Reagan, but in fact, most taxpayers experienced increased taxes as a result of his eight years in office, between modest cuts in income taxes and substantial increases in payroll taxes. Only the wealthy actually saw a tax cut.

"Living within our means" -- generally directed at the federal government, but only applied in practice to some forms of government spending and not others; the military gets a blank check, so does federal law enforcement and the national security state, and so do corporate subsidies an bailouts.

"Less government interference in our lives" -- true only if "we" are big business magnates and millionaire bankers, and "our lives" means our financial and business dealings, especially the "freedom" to squash competition, drive down wages, and plunder the environment; government interference in the efforts of any small businesses to compete with the big boys, and in the private lives of pregnant women and gay people, are fine.

"Actually living according to the Constitution" -- used as a catch-all to assert that anything the person happens not to like is illegal, and yet some things that clearly ARE against the Constitution, such as the warrantless wiretaps authorized in the Patriot Act that violate the Fourth Amendment, or locking people up without trial or recourse as "enemy combatants" which completely violates the entire concept of due process of law, seem to meet with approval.

"Lower taxes" -- claimed by Ronald Reagan, but in fact, most taxpayers experienced increased taxes as a result of his eight years in office, between modest cuts in income taxes and substantial increases in payroll taxes.

Prove it to me. Use the real tax rates from 1980 and from 1988.
 
Prove it to me. Use the real tax rates from 1980 and from 1988.

Happy to.

Single person, $30,000 annual income, takes standard deduction and one personal exemption, taxes in constant dollars.

Income tax:

1980: combined standard deduction & personal exemption = $3,300, leaving taxable income of $26,700. Income tax on this amount: $3,665.48

1988: combined standard deduction & personal exemption = $4,950, leaving taxable income of $25,050. Income tax on this amount: $3,757.50

Payroll tax:

1980: 5.08% = $1,524 1988: 6.06% = $1,818

Total federal taxes: 1980 $5,189.48 1988 $5,575.50

All figures adjusted for inflation

Sources:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/Content/PDF/historical_standard_deduct.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/feddividendtreatment-20061212.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal&adjusted-20110909.pdf

Social Security Tax Rates
 
Bush had huge favorable performance ratings after the Gulf War(historic highs) - a decent economy, yet wasn't rewarded with a 2nd term.

Still can't figure.....................

Obama has historic low ratings and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Trying to prop up his image with fake foreign policy "successes."

Hope the voters dont reward him with a 2nd term.

Bush lost because of his NAFTA push.
no he didn't lose because of NAFTA....because Clinton, when he was running for President, agreed to support NAFTA and continue with what President hw bush began by signing the agreements that President Bush had made....it was part of clinton's plank.....soooo, Americans must have supported NAFTA at the time...
 
GHWB lost the election due to not starting WW3 like he was told to. He pulled out early. Too bad he didn't do that often enough with Crowleys daughter, Barbara.
That's OK. pResident Cheney was given the wheel and got'er done.
 
Prove it to me. Use the real tax rates from 1980 and from 1988.

Happy to.

Single person, $30,000 annual income, takes standard deduction and one personal exemption, taxes in constant dollars.

Income tax:

1980: combined standard deduction & personal exemption = $3,300, leaving taxable income of $26,700. Income tax on this amount: $3,665.48

1988: combined standard deduction & personal exemption = $4,950, leaving taxable income of $25,050. Income tax on this amount: $3,757.50

Payroll tax:

1980: 5.08% = $1,524 1988: 6.06% = $1,818

Total federal taxes: 1980 $5,189.48 1988 $5,575.50

All figures adjusted for inflation

Sources:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/Content/PDF/historical_standard_deduct.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/feddividendtreatment-20061212.pdf

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal&adjusted-20110909.pdf

Social Security Tax Rates

I looked at income tax in 1980 and the number I found was $6615 on income of $26700, 24.78% on AGI. 22.05% on gross.

I looked at income tax in 1988 and the number I found was $3757.50 on income of $25050 15% on AGI. 12.525% on gross.

Not sure what your method was to adjust for inflation.
 
Not sure what your method was to adjust for inflation.

I didn't do the adjusting, it was built into the sources. I went straight to the tax rates, looked up the figures for the standard deduction and personal exemption, applied the rules as listed, and calculated it all out. The 1980 taxes were harder to calculate, because there were lots of tiny tax brackets so I had to subtract minimums from maximums, then multiply and stick it in memory. 1988 was easier because there was just the one rate, 15%; however, in 1988 that 15% applied to all taxable income from the first dollar on, while in 1980 the first few thousand was taxed at zero, hence the higher figure for '88 on income tax (the top marginal rate at that low income was 21% in 1980).

I have no idea where you got those figures you just presented. If they're something on line, please provide a link. If they're your own taxes, in order to evaluate them I would have to ask for information I have no right to know.
 
Not sure what your method was to adjust for inflation.

I didn't do the adjusting, it was built into the sources. I went straight to the tax rates, looked up the figures for the standard deduction and personal exemption, applied the rules as listed, and calculated it all out. The 1980 taxes were harder to calculate, because there were lots of tiny tax brackets so I had to subtract minimums from maximums, then multiply and stick it in memory. 1988 was easier because there was just the one rate, 15%; however, in 1988 that 15% applied to all taxable income from the first dollar on, while in 1980 the first few thousand was taxed at zero, hence the higher figure for '88 on income tax (the top marginal rate at that low income was 21% in 1980).

I have no idea where you got those figures you just presented. If they're something on line, please provide a link. If they're your own taxes, in order to evaluate them I would have to ask for information I have no right to know.

I looked at your sources and didn't see how you got your numbers.
The top marginal rate for $26,700 AGI in 1980 was 39%.
Rework your numbers using just the nominal info.
 
Bush had huge favorable performance ratings after the Gulf War(historic highs) - a decent economy, yet wasn't rewarded with a 2nd term.

Still can't figure.....................

Obama has historic low ratings and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

The economy?
It’s still Bush’s fault
!

"A majority of Americans believe that former President George W. Bush is more responsible than President Obama for the current economic problems in the country, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll."​

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Bush had huge favorable performance ratings after the Gulf War(historic highs) - a decent economy, yet wasn't rewarded with a 2nd term.

Still can't figure.....................

Obama has historic low ratings and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Trying to prop up his image with fake foreign policy "successes."

Hope the voters dont reward him with a 2nd term.

Bush didn't have a decent economy, dimwit.

And by the time he stood for re-election, he didn't have good approval ratings.

But here's the main reason why Obama will probably be re-elected, besides the GOP insisting on nominating a loser.

Because Americans are basically fair people. They aren't going to hold him accountable for stuff that happened before he got there.

Bush-41 had no real excuse. He had been in the executive branch as President or Vice-President for 12 years. So whatever was going wrong, he was part of it.

It is rare for the electorate to switch parties in the WH after 4 years. Last time it was done was 1980. The last time before that was 1896.
 
Reality Check: Obama has no better than 50/50 chance of being reelected at this time. No president has ever been reelected with approval ratings as low as his (going as far back as they've been tracking these things). He has his work cut out for him.
 
Reality Check: Obama has no better than 50/50 chance of being reelected at this time. No president has ever been reelected with approval ratings as low as his (going as far back as they've been tracking these things). He has his work cut out for him.

Reality Check. If the GOP nominated the Weird Mormon Robot, Obama's going to have an easy time getting re-elected.

Fact is, the Democrat has not gone below 49% in the last four elections.

We have not thrown out an incumbant party after 4 years in 32 years...

He'll win because everyone the GOP is putting up is a joke.
 
Bush had huge favorable performance ratings after the Gulf War(historic highs) - a decent economy, yet wasn't rewarded with a 2nd term.

Still can't figure.....................

Obama has historic low ratings and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Trying to prop up his image with fake foreign policy "successes."

Hope the voters dont reward him with a 2nd term.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffbFvKlWqE]Clinton vs. Bush in 1992 Debate - YouTube[/ame]
 
Bush had huge favorable performance ratings after the Gulf War(historic highs) - a decent economy, yet wasn't rewarded with a 2nd term.

Still can't figure.....................

Obama has historic low ratings and the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Trying to prop up his image with fake foreign policy "successes."

Hope the voters dont reward him with a 2nd term.

He had a decent economy in retrospect, but at the time the economy was just pulling out of a recession and a lot of people blamed him for it.
 
If George HW Bush didnt get re-elected - why should Obama?

Well mostly because he appears to have more sense than the current parade of clowns.
 

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