I dont give a shit!

[masquerade]

Today on The Five, Dana Perino (my girl crush), got heated up about this issue as well.

She is pretty awesome, isn't she?

Intelligent, articulate, and beautiful inside and out...the whole conservative package.

Make her a brunette and she'd be my girl crush too!

 

[geauxtohell]

I think college for be for those over 30.
18 yr. olds don't have a clue as to what they want to do for the rest of their working life.

A person should have some real life work experience under their belt before making that kind of financial commitment

Good fuckin point sir.

Why waste 12 years of a person's life where they could have a potentially higher income/earnability simply because some geezers think the "damn kids" are too irresponsible to read and sign a loan note?

 

[High_Gravity]

I think college for be for those over 30.
18 yr. olds don't have a clue as to what they want to do for the rest of their working life.

A person should have some real life work experience under their belt before making that kind of financial commitment

Good fuckin point sir.

Why waste 12 years of a person's life where they could have a potentially higher income/earnability simply because some geezers think the "damn kids" are too irresponsible to read and sign a loan note?

He has a point about alot of these kids not knowing jack shit, most of the teenagers I encounter here in Birmingham can barely read and tie their damn shoes, and they want a loan in the tens of thousands to cover college? that will go over well.

 

[mudwhistle]

All of this class-warfare talk is filtering into our society.

You say that like it's a bad thing. It is class warfare. The middle class is realizing that it is getting screwed. When the Tea Party started to bitch, it was considered patriotic. When OWS does it, it's "class warfare".

As useful as you guys are to the corporate interests that have too much influence in this country, telling people "there is nothing to see here" isn't going to change anything.

Sowing these seeds pitting the rich against the poor has some disturbing consequences. The poor are taking it upon the themselves to steal from others. Anyone they owe money to runs a risk of getting stiffed. This is the kind of mind-set that started the banking crisis.

As opposed to the rich stealing from everyone else?

I guess those Enron employees should have just STFU when their pensions were raided for Kenny Boy's golden parachute, huh?



And go into bankruptcy, liquidation, and foreclosure. Due to the bankruptcy laws that passed a few years ago, even this process is a total screw job.



And get evicted.



Oh Dear Lord! Will someone think about the Legal Loansharkers?

If you're stupid enough to lend money to somebody you do so at your own risk.

LMAO. Yes. Those poor bankers. They really have it tough. I mean, who in the world would want to be a banker? You might as well be a janitor, where the real money is at.

A primary reason for crime in Black communities is the simple fact that most of them are brought up to resent the rich and resent authority. Obama has opened a can of worms that potentially could backfire big-time.....and seriously I don't think he cares.

That is too fucking stupid to even address. You can't quantify that statement, and you know it. You bitch about anyone considering "class warfare" and end on a "race warfare" note?

At any rate, it's nice of you guys to run to the defense of the corporations. Never mind that the deck is overwhelmingly stacked in their favor. No, you have to crap all over a group that is simply exercising its constitutional right to point out that the corporations in this country have amassed an almost absurd degree of power.

I'm not rushing to the aid of anyone.

I'm just telling like it is.

You on the other hand are simply repeating populist nonsense. Very little of it looks at the situation from both sides. You use sweeping generalizations instead of specifics. You use Enron as an example when in fact the government you support has done, is doing, and will continue to screw us over in an even worse manner.

I've been in the loan business and have seen it from both sides. More often then not the borrower is stiffing the lender. Banks are being robbed by borrowers. It's outright theft which only costs all of us more for everything. Con-artists make a living ripping off what you call "Legal Loan-sharks".

You didn't bitch when the bank helped you to get your education. You didn't complain when they handed you the cash. Now you think you have a right to complain.

Suck it up and shut yer trap.

 

[geauxtohell]

I'm not rushing to the aid of anyone.

I'm just telling like it is.

You on the other hand are simply repeating populist nonsense. Very little of it looks at the situation from both sides. You use sweeping generalizations instead of specifics. You use Enron as an example when in fact the government you support has done, is doing, and will continue to screw over in a worse manner.

I've been in the loan business and have seen it from both sides. More often then not the borrower is stiffing the lender. Banks are being robbed by borrowers. It's outright theft which only costs all of us more for everything. Con-artists make a living ripping off what you call "Legal Loan-sharks".

You didn't bitch when the bank helped you to get your education. You didn't complain when they handed you the cash. Now you think you have a right to complain.

Suck it up and shut yer trap.

You claim Obama is trying to gin up a race war and then tell me I am using sweeping generalizations? That's rich.

Again, I see my loans as an investment in myself. I have not bitched about them (despite your claims to the contrary). What I have done is said I understand how people can be somewhat disenchanted at the screw job that financing a college education has become.

 

[geauxtohell]

Good fuckin point sir.

Why waste 12 years of a person's life where they could have a potentially higher income/earnability simply because some geezers think the "damn kids" are too irresponsible to read and sign a loan note?

He has a point about alot of these kids not knowing jack shit, most of the teenagers I encounter here in Birmingham can barely read and tie their damn shoes, and they want a loan in the tens of thousands to cover college? that will go over well.

For everyone of those people, I can point out someone that had a professional degree and career by the time they were 25 and were earning in the upper end of the income bracket and contributing to this country via taxes.

By the time I was 22, I was in charge of an infantry platoon of 30 men and at least $300,000 in equipment.

Delaying that process 12 years based on anecdotes is just silly and bad for the country.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why waste 12 years of a person's life where they could have a potentially higher income/earnability simply because some geezers think the "damn kids" are too irresponsible to read and sign a loan note?

He has a point about alot of these kids not knowing jack shit, most of the teenagers I encounter here in Birmingham can barely read and tie their damn shoes, and they want a loan in the tens of thousands to cover college? that will go over well.

For everyone of those people, I can point out someone that had a professional degree and career by the time they were 25 and were earning in the upper end of the income bracket and contributing to this country via taxes.

By the time I was 22, I was in charge of an infantry platoon of 30 men and at least $300,000 in equipment.

Delaying that process 12 years based on anecdotes is just silly and bad for the country.

Your right we have to trust them, its just that the number of young people I see that dont know jack shit is alarming to me.

 

[masquerade]

Ya know what, i really don't give a flying shit about your college debts!

I am sick of their whining about the money THEY borrowed. No one forced them to go to college. No one forced them to borrow money.

They signed on the bottom line knowing full well how much they borrowed and that they would have to pay it back.... tough damn shit. It sucks paying your bills.

I agree. I have one in college (sophomore) and he attends a small, private, very expensive college. I have deferred EVERYTHING until he graduates. He has a clear understanding that it's "HIS DEBT" to begin paying down after graduation with money he earns from his JOB - post-graduation.

Ditto with son #2 - going into college next year. It's all on him.

Both the boys have this clear, non-whining understanding.

My oldest is a sophmore in the eyes of his college, due to the credits he graduated HS with, yet he's a freshman due to the fact that it's his first year. Regardless, he knows he too is in debt with the loans taken out for his education. He wants to move onto med school when he finishes in what I hope will be only three years of undergrad. He is fully aware that he himself will have to take out the loan for graduate school and that he is going to spend many many years of his life paying that loan back. Can he bitch and complain about it? Sure. But he knows his responsibilities and paying that loan back is one of them.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ya know what, i really don't give a flying shit about your college debts!

I am sick of their whining about the money THEY borrowed. No one forced them to go to college. No one forced them to borrow money.

They signed on the bottom line knowing full well how much they borrowed and that they would have to pay it back.... tough damn shit. It sucks paying your bills.

I agree. I have one in college (sophomore) and he attends a small, private, very expensive college. I have deferred EVERYTHING until he graduates. He has a clear understanding that it's "HIS DEBT" to begin paying down after graduation with money he earns from his JOB - post-graduation.

Ditto with son #2 - going into college next year. It's all on him.

Both the boys have this clear, non-whining understanding.

My oldest is a sophmore in the eyes of his college, due to the credits he graduated HS with, yet he's a freshman due to the fact that it's his first year. Regardless, he knows he too is in debt with the loans taken out for his education. He wants to move onto med school when he finishes in what I hope will be only three years of undergrad. He is fully aware that he himself will have to take out the loan for graduate school and that he is going to spend many many years of his life paying that loan back. Can he bitch and complain about it? Sure. But he knows his responsibilities and paying that loan back is one of them.

The delicious irony of this thread is that this forum exists to bitch and complain. Now we are bitching and complaining about people bitching and complaining.

You can't write this shit.

 

[mudwhistle]

I'm not rushing to the aid of anyone.

I'm just telling like it is.

You on the other hand are simply repeating populist nonsense. Very little of it looks at the situation from both sides. You use sweeping generalizations instead of specifics. You use Enron as an example when in fact the government you support has done, is doing, and will continue to screw over in a worse manner.

I've been in the loan business and have seen it from both sides. More often then not the borrower is stiffing the lender. Banks are being robbed by borrowers. It's outright theft which only costs all of us more for everything. Con-artists make a living ripping off what you call "Legal Loan-sharks".

You didn't bitch when the bank helped you to get your education. You didn't complain when they handed you the cash. Now you think you have a right to complain.

Suck it up and shut yer trap.

You claim Obama is trying to gin up a race war and then tell me I am using sweeping generalizations? That's rich.

Again, I see my loans as an investment in myself. I have not bitched about them (despite your claims to the contrary). What I have done is said I understand how people can be somewhat disenchanted at the screw job that financing a college education has become.

I didn't say anything about a race-war.

I stated that blacks have been taught all their lives to resent the rich (whitey). That went on long as there has been someone willing to profit off of race-baiting. This practice predates Obama.

 

[geauxtohell]

I'm not rushing to the aid of anyone.

I'm just telling like it is.

You on the other hand are simply repeating populist nonsense. Very little of it looks at the situation from both sides. You use sweeping generalizations instead of specifics. You use Enron as an example when in fact the government you support has done, is doing, and will continue to screw over in a worse manner.

I've been in the loan business and have seen it from both sides. More often then not the borrower is stiffing the lender. Banks are being robbed by borrowers. It's outright theft which only costs all of us more for everything. Con-artists make a living ripping off what you call "Legal Loan-sharks".

You didn't bitch when the bank helped you to get your education. You didn't complain when they handed you the cash. Now you think you have a right to complain.

Suck it up and shut yer trap.

You claim Obama is trying to gin up a race war and then tell me I am using sweeping generalizations? That's rich.

Again, I see my loans as an investment in myself. I have not bitched about them (despite your claims to the contrary). What I have done is said I understand how people can be somewhat disenchanted at the screw job that financing a college education has become.

I didn't say anything about a race-war.

I stated that blacks have been taught all their lives to resent the rich (whitey). That went on long as there has been someone willing to profit off of race-baiting. This practice predates Obama.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4e8iAofnrw]Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Ya know what, i really don't give a flying shit about your college debts!

I am sick of their whining about the money THEY borrowed. No one forced them to go to college. No one forced them to borrow money.

They signed on the bottom line knowing full well how much they borrowed and that they would have to pay it back.... tough damn shit. It sucks paying your bills.

This is a ridiculous mindset. No one forced them to go to college? True but misguided! We as a society push people towards education, AS WE SHOULD. You want a better country? You need smarter citizens. Or do you think China and India are just going to wait until we get over our uneducated dumb phase? They have more HONOR ROLL students than we have TOTAL students. To do anything to discourage higher education in this country is a great disservice.

As for loans: it's easy to claim "they accepted the loans so they need to deal with it." It's easy because it doesn't apply to you and you don't know the actual burden today. So let's play hypotheticals. What if college tuition were $70,000 per year? $100,000? $250,000? At what point do we change from "well it's your choice to take those loans!" to "ok the cost of educating our country is getting a little steep?"

We subsidize corn, much to the health detriment of our society, because otherwise it would be too expensive. No one forces you to eat corn, yet the government pays for it. But education is crazy idea? Let's have ever growing financial restrictions on education? Let's keep our country a little bit dumber?

 

[High_Gravity]

I'm not rushing to the aid of anyone.

I'm just telling like it is.

You on the other hand are simply repeating populist nonsense. Very little of it looks at the situation from both sides. You use sweeping generalizations instead of specifics. You use Enron as an example when in fact the government you support has done, is doing, and will continue to screw over in a worse manner.

I've been in the loan business and have seen it from both sides. More often then not the borrower is stiffing the lender. Banks are being robbed by borrowers. It's outright theft which only costs all of us more for everything. Con-artists make a living ripping off what you call "Legal Loan-sharks".

You didn't bitch when the bank helped you to get your education. You didn't complain when they handed you the cash. Now you think you have a right to complain.

Suck it up and shut yer trap.

You claim Obama is trying to gin up a race war and then tell me I am using sweeping generalizations? That's rich.

Again, I see my loans as an investment in myself. I have not bitched about them (despite your claims to the contrary). What I have done is said I understand how people can be somewhat disenchanted at the screw job that financing a college education has become.

I didn't say anything about a race-war.

I stated that blacks have been taught all their lives to resent the rich (whitey). That went on long as there has been someone willing to profit off of race-baiting. This practice predates Obama.

I was not taught to resent whites.

 

[jillian]

He has a point about alot of these kids not knowing jack shit, most of the teenagers I encounter here in Birmingham can barely read and tie their damn shoes, and they want a loan in the tens of thousands to cover college? that will go over well.

For everyone of those people, I can point out someone that had a professional degree and career by the time they were 25 and were earning in the upper end of the income bracket and contributing to this country via taxes.

By the time I was 22, I was in charge of an infantry platoon of 30 men and at least $300,000 in equipment.

Delaying that process 12 years based on anecdotes is just silly and bad for the country.

Your right we have to trust them, its just that the number of young people I see that dont know jack shit is alarming to me.

By the time I was 23, I was out of law school, working full time and paying taxes. By a year later, I had my own apartment. A year after that I bought my first co-op which was paid off and then bought a second co-op when i sold the first.

My student loans started to become due a year after I graduated law school. I made my payments every month. When I started my own practice, I asked for a deferment for two years so i could pay my bills and get the practice going. They gave me a year. That caused major hardship.

But what no one is saying, is that the cost of education has gone up at multiples of the actual rate of inflation... this is pricing people out of that opportunity. Then they tightened up student aid and pell grants and privatized student loans... then, because the loans are so high, what jobs are available don't cover the cost of the education.

Seems that has to be addressed before we go deriding people for getting an education and doing what's expected of them. They were told THAT is how you pursue the american dream...

except it no longer is.

 

[mudwhistle]

Why waste 12 years of a person's life where they could have a potentially higher income/earnability simply because some geezers think the "damn kids" are too irresponsible to read and sign a loan note?

He has a point about alot of these kids not knowing jack shit, most of the teenagers I encounter here in Birmingham can barely read and tie their damn shoes, and they want a loan in the tens of thousands to cover college? that will go over well.

For everyone of those people, I can point out someone that had a professional degree and career by the time they were 25 and were earning in the upper end of the income bracket and contributing to this country via taxes.

By the time I was 22, I was in charge of an infantry platoon of 30 men and at least $300,000 in equipment.

Delaying that process 12 years based on anecdotes is just silly and bad for the country.

$300,000 isn't much in the military. I was in charge of equipment in excess of $32,000,000.00. And explain to me how you made Plt SGT in 4 years or less.

Oh, you were a Butter-bar.

Fresh out of school.

 

[Wiseacre]

For everyone of those people, I can point out someone that had a professional degree and career by the time they were 25 and were earning in the upper end of the income bracket and contributing to this country via taxes.

By the time I was 22, I was in charge of an infantry platoon of 30 men and at least $300,000 in equipment.

Delaying that process 12 years based on anecdotes is just silly and bad for the country.

Your right we have to trust them, its just that the number of young people I see that dont know jack shit is alarming to me.

By the time I was 23, I was out of law school, working full time and paying taxes. By a year later, I had my own apartment. A year after that I bought my first co-op which was paid off and then bought a second co-op when i sold the first.

My student loans started to become due a year after I graduated law school. I made my payments every month. When I started my own practice, I asked for a deferment for two years so i could pay my bills and get the practice going. They gave me a year. That caused major hardship.

But what no one is saying, is that the cost of education has gone up at multiples of the actual rate of inflation... this is pricing people out of that opportunity. Then they tightened up student aid and pell grants and privatized student loans... then, because the loans are so high, what jobs are available don't cover the cost of the education.

Seems that has to be addressed before we go deriding people for getting an education and doing what's expected of them. They were told THAT is how you pursue the american dream...

except it no longer is.

The rising cost of education seems to be as bad as the rising cost of medical care. Both of which are heavily subsidized by the federal gov't, which I think is not a coincidence.

 

[jillian]

Your right we have to trust them, its just that the number of young people I see that dont know jack shit is alarming to me.

By the time I was 23, I was out of law school, working full time and paying taxes. By a year later, I had my own apartment. A year after that I bought my first co-op which was paid off and then bought a second co-op when i sold the first.

My student loans started to become due a year after I graduated law school. I made my payments every month. When I started my own practice, I asked for a deferment for two years so i could pay my bills and get the practice going. They gave me a year. That caused major hardship.

But what no one is saying, is that the cost of education has gone up at multiples of the actual rate of inflation... this is pricing people out of that opportunity. Then they tightened up student aid and pell grants and privatized student loans... then, because the loans are so high, what jobs are available don't cover the cost of the education.

Seems that has to be addressed before we go deriding people for getting an education and doing what's expected of them. They were told THAT is how you pursue the american dream...

except it no longer is.

The rising cost of education seems to be as bad as the rising cost of medical care. Both of which are heavily subsidized by the federal gov't, which I think is not a coincidence.

It has to do in part with policy. But not in the way you seem to be implying. In terms of both, countries in which there is governmental policy which fosters affordable (or government paid for) health care and higher education, has much lower cost than our system.

you think bush's agreement not to use the bargaining power of medicare to bring down the cost of prescription drugs (while pharma co's sell those same drugs at vastly reduced prices in other countries) didn't contribute to the rising cost of health care? And now, unregulated re-sellers are hoarding life-saving drugs and re-selling them to hospitals and medical providers at hundreds of times the original price.

but the right hates regulation and loves the free market, right?

until someone they know and love can't get their chemotherapy...

 

[Wiseacre]

By the time I was 23, I was out of law school, working full time and paying taxes. By a year later, I had my own apartment. A year after that I bought my first co-op which was paid off and then bought a second co-op when i sold the first.

My student loans started to become due a year after I graduated law school. I made my payments every month. When I started my own practice, I asked for a deferment for two years so i could pay my bills and get the practice going. They gave me a year. That caused major hardship.

But what no one is saying, is that the cost of education has gone up at multiples of the actual rate of inflation... this is pricing people out of that opportunity. Then they tightened up student aid and pell grants and privatized student loans... then, because the loans are so high, what jobs are available don't cover the cost of the education.

Seems that has to be addressed before we go deriding people for getting an education and doing what's expected of them. They were told THAT is how you pursue the american dream...

except it no longer is.

The rising cost of education seems to be as bad as the rising cost of medical care. Both of which are heavily subsidized by the federal gov't, which I think is not a coincidence.

It has to do in part with policy. But not in the way you seem to be implying. In terms of both, countries in which there is governmental policy which fosters affordable (or government paid for) health care and higher education, has much lower cost than our system.

you think bush's agreement not to use the bargaining power of medicare to bring down the cost of prescription drugs (while pharma co's sell those same drugs at vastly reduced prices in other countries) didn't contribute to the rising cost of health care? And now, unregulated re-sellers are hoarding life-saving drugs and re-selling them to hospitals and medical providers at hundreds of times the original price.

but the right hates regulation and loves the free market, right?

until someone they know and love can't get their chemotherapy...

I think our higher costs for both HC and ED are more due to the very poorly run programs in those areas, which are rife with fraud, waste, and abuse. Going to a gov't run system for either or both will not solve the problem. Instead we should be trying to encourage free market competition in those areas and get the gov't the hell out of it.

Not sure what you meant about Bush's agreement not to use the bargaining power of Medicare, but that drug prescription bill was passed with dem support, was it not? In any case, there were many decisions and policies under the Bush admin that I disagreed with, he spent money like it was going out of style.

Yes, I love the free market and open competition, and would like to see a reduction in regulations that are unneeded, ineffective, or offer too little value for the cost. We always seem to swing from too much to too little IMHO.

 

[jillian]

I think our higher costs for both HC and ED are more due to the very poorly run programs in those areas, which are rife with fraud, waste, and abuse. Going to a gov't run system for either or both will not solve the problem. Instead we should be trying to encourage free market competition in those areas and get the gov't the hell out of it.

Not sure what you meant about Bush's agreement not to use the bargaining power of Medicare, but that drug prescription bill was passed with dem support, was it not? In any case, there were many decisions and policies under the Bush admin that I disagreed with, he spent money like it was going out of style.

Yes, I love the free market and open competition, and would like to see a reduction in regulations that are unneeded, ineffective, or offer too little value for the cost. We always seem to swing from too much to too little IMHO.

when bush proposed his medicare drug plan, and that plan was passed by congress, it contained a provision that prohibited medicare from negotiating prescription prices with pharmaceutical companies. yet those companies sell those same drugs in other countries for far less.

is that free market? or is it a give-away to pharmaceutical companies. i'd say it's the latter. the problem with your pov is unrestrained capitalism creates what we're seeing... a few people in the top 1% and everyone else sytematically excluded from success. the middle class does not exist without regulation. it's really that simple. you can like it or not, but it's true.

i'll respectfully disagree as to the cause of high prices, because it simply doesn't exist in places where money does not run government.

get money OUT of government, and you'll see how quickly some of these things right themselves.

 

[mudwhistle]

By the time I was 23, I was out of law school, working full time and paying taxes. By a year later, I had my own apartment. A year after that I bought my first co-op which was paid off and then bought a second co-op when i sold the first.

My student loans started to become due a year after I graduated law school. I made my payments every month. When I started my own practice, I asked for a deferment for two years so i could pay my bills and get the practice going. They gave me a year. That caused major hardship.

But what no one is saying, is that the cost of education has gone up at multiples of the actual rate of inflation... this is pricing people out of that opportunity. Then they tightened up student aid and pell grants and privatized student loans... then, because the loans are so high, what jobs are available don't cover the cost of the education.

Seems that has to be addressed before we go deriding people for getting an education and doing what's expected of them. They were told THAT is how you pursue the american dream...

except it no longer is.

The rising cost of education seems to be as bad as the rising cost of medical care. Both of which are heavily subsidized by the federal gov't, which I think is not a coincidence.

It has to do in part with policy. But not in the way you seem to be implying. In terms of both, countries in which there is governmental policy which fosters affordable (or government paid for) health care and higher education, has much lower cost than our system.

you think bush's agreement not to use the bargaining power of medicare to bring down the cost of prescription drugs (while pharma co's sell those same drugs at vastly reduced prices in other countries) didn't contribute to the rising cost of health care? And now, unregulated re-sellers are hoarding life-saving drugs and re-selling them to hospitals and medical providers at hundreds of times the original price.

but the right hates regulation and loves the free market, right?

until someone they know and love can't get their chemotherapy...

The way Medicare patients can't starting 2013.

One of those new "Kinder More Compassionate" regulation Obama put in his "Affordable HEalth Care Act.

Regulations are fine as long as they improve the situation. Not if they make it worse. Not if they're based on intentionally raising costs as a way of Spreading the Wealth or saving the Icelandic Sea Slug.