txlonghorn
Senior Member
- Mar 9, 2009
- 3,042
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I guess we'll know soon enough
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Right, because chugging beers and sitting there while your staff makes disparaging comments about the administration to the media is professional and becoming of an officer.No...the military is not free to criticize and undermine what the country is trying to do while in uniform. Thems the rules. If they cannot follow the rules they shouldn't be in the military.
you're absolutely right and if he had been critical of obama, he should resign. i've read the article at least twice now, and i've found nothing attributed to mcchrystal that is critical of obama or anyone in his chain of command, unless you count biden.
fauxrage apparently isn't just for the rw loons any more.
The night after his speech in Paris, McChrystal and his staff head to Kitty O'Shea's, an Irish pub catering to tourists, around the corner from the hotel. His wife, Annie, has joined him for a rare visit: Since the Iraq War began in 2003, she has seen her husband less than 30 days a year. Though it is his and Annie's 33rd wedding anniversary, McChrystal has invited his inner circle along for dinner and drinks at the "least Gucci" place his staff could find. His wife isn't surprised. "He once took me to a Jack in the Box when I was dressed in formalwear," she says with a laugh.
The general's staff is a handpicked collection of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots, political operators and outright maniacs. There's a former head of British Special Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat veterans and counterinsurgency experts. They jokingly refer to themselves as Team America, taking the name from the South Park-esque sendup of military cluelessness, and they pride themselves on their can-do attitude and their disdain for authority. After arriving in Kabul last summer, Team America set about changing the culture of the International Security Assistance Force, as the NATO-led mission is known. (U.S. soldiers had taken to deriding ISAF as short for "I Suck at Fighting" or "In Sandals and Flip-Flops.") McChrystal banned alcohol on base, kicked out Burger King and other symbols of American excess, expanded the morning briefing to include thousands of officers and refashioned the command center into a Situational Awareness Room, a free-flowing information hub modeled after Mayor Mike Bloomberg's offices in New York. He also set a manic pace for his staff, becoming legendary for sleeping four hours a night, running seven miles each morning, and eating one meal a day. (In the month I spend around the general, I witness him eating only once.) It's a kind of superhuman narrative that has built up around him, a staple in almost every media profile, as if the ability to go without sleep and food translates into the possibility of a man single-handedly winning the war.
By midnight at Kitty O'Shea's, much of Team America is completely shitfaced. Two officers do an Irish jig mixed with steps from a traditional Afghan wedding dance, while McChrystal's top advisers lock arms and sing a slurred song of their own invention. "Afghanistan!" they bellow. "Afghanistan!" They call it their Afghanistan song.
McChrystal steps away from the circle, observing his team. "All these men," he tells me. "I'd die for them. And they'd die for me."
No...the military is not free to criticize and undermine what the country is trying to do while in uniform. Thems the rules. If they cannot follow the rules they shouldn't be in the military.
you're absolutely right and if he had been critical of obama, he should resign. i've read the article at least twice now, and i've found nothing attributed to mcchrystal that is critical of obama or anyone in his chain of command, unless you count biden.
fauxrage apparently isn't just for the rw loons any more.
But he is responsible for his staff, which did make those comments, and presumably reflect the views of their chief.
The question is what good will firing him do on the eve of a major operation? If Obama fires him it will be a sign of weakness on Obama's part.
McChrystal has completed a closed-door meeting with President Barack Obama and has left the White House. There was no immediate word on whether Obama would fire him for his inflammatory comments in a magazine interview.
Significantly, McChrystal departed the White House before Obama convened a regularly scheduled war planning meeting there.
McCrystal is a walking Ego. It is also becoming painfully obvious that his battle strategy in Afganistan is not working. The man is a jerk. Obama will can him. He needs to go, he and his command who seem to think, they also, are above reproach.
I didn't say civilian control of the military is stoopid.
You don't think it's stoopid to demand people die for Freedoms they cannot have themselves?
You know that, per article 88 of the UCMJ, that officers don't have "freedom of speech" towards the Chain of Command.
That's what I've been pointing out is so damn ridiculously stoopid.
I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.
GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.
However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.
More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.
In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.
I'm going to have to go with Del on this one.If Obama didn't accept his resignation and told McCristal to go back to work and McCristal refused by resigning I think that would have some bearing on his discharge.No it won't. If he resigns his commission as a General Officer in the United States military, he's essentially saying "I am no longer an officer in the military".
There hasn't been any UCMJ charges against him, it won't change his honorable discharge, nor should it.
This might have been asked, but Obama can refuse to accept his resignation but he can't force the General to stay on if he doesn't want to.
McChrystal doesn't want to resign though, IMO, so if Obama told him he didn't have to, I think he would go back to A-stan.
It won't and it shouldn't. This isn't something that changes 20+ years of honorable service.
McCrystal is a walking Ego. It is also becoming painfully obvious that his battle strategy in Afganistan is not working. The man is a jerk. Obama will can him. He needs to go, he and his command who seem to think, they also, are above reproach.
LMAO MCCHRYSTALS a walking ego??? Jeeze.
Its a wonder that Ol'BO's head fits throught the doors at the WH.
However he is the CIN and McCrystals or his aides comments never should have made the RS or any other magazine.
One must show proper respect for the office even if you don't have any for the person who occupys said office. After all. He is CIN. LOL
I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.
GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.
However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.
More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.
In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.
This will probably be the first time I agree with GoToHell, one of the more ardent followers of the Black Racist MARXIST Palestinian Guardian and Muslim PC Protector Obami Salaami, the EXPOSED MONUMENTAL FRAUD's soon to be possible conclusion.
However, when GoToHell publicly mourns this instance of a General "misbehaving", this GoToHell is exhibiting the usual Liberrhoid Hypocrisy since I'd bet the National Debt that he joined in the criticism of Dubya by those generals no doubt with much "righteous" indignation when LEFTY POLITICS were the primary cause...... and NOT the fact that one shouldn't screw around with the chain of command.
McCrystal is a walking Ego. It is also becoming painfully obvious that his battle strategy in Afganistan is not working. The man is a jerk. Obama will can him. He needs to go, he and his command who seem to think, they also, are above reproach.
LMAO MCCHRYSTALS a walking ego??? Jeeze.
Its a wonder that Ol'BO's head fits throught the doors at the WH.
However he is the CIN and McCrystals or his aides comments never should have made the RS or any other magazine.
One must show proper respect for the office even if you don't have any for the person who occupys said office. After all. He is CIN. LOL
McChrystal's ego is obviously a problem and it's been allowed to permeate his staff. He's surrounded himself with people who act in an unprofessional manner.
There is probably no better example of selfless service from a General than from George C. Marshall. Marshall got the importance of the military subordinating itself to the civilian command and not becoming a political organization. He even refused to vote.
That's why he, no doubt, supported canning McArthur.
Again, they know this when they sign on. No one is forced to serve anymore.I have to disagree with this line of your argument.
There are good reasons for not allowing the criticism of those above you. First of all, you (the General in this case) may not have all the facts and by making such statements may jeopardize the mission... his mission.
I was actually surprised that the article discusses a "bitch session" that the General allowed to go on. The article discussed a meeting the general had with some of the soldiers in the field at a memorial for a fallen soldier and the general actually allowed them to vent their frustrations.
It is not that the men and women who are fighting our battles for us do not have the Freedom of Speech. It is that they are limited in that freedom when it comes to matters of the military and it should be limited in this case.
Immie
Soldiers under the UCMJ do not have Freedom of Speech and I see no legit reasons to take it from them then demand they give their lives for something that they don't have themselves. It's simply a method of dehumanizing Americans to prevent Policy makers from being held accountable. It shuts our Troops up so damn much they can't even follow the UCMJ. Who knows why?
You know that, per article 88 of the UCMJ, that officers don't have "freedom of speech" towards the Chain of Command.
That's what I've been pointing out is so damn ridiculously stoopid.
A couple of centuries of military tradition disagree with you. Would you tolerate insubordination from your soldiers?
Why should officers be allowed to be openly insubordinate to the civilian chain of command? If they can be contemptuous, then there is no cause to relieve them. You would have guys like Doug McArthur lobbying that our policy in North Korea should be, contrary to the Truman Administration's policy, to nuke the shit out of North Korea. It would potentially prompt a situation that allowed for a military coup.
Have you really thought this through?
i greatly admire marshall, but i have to point out that he and macarthur were enemies of long standing. macarthur gave him a fitrep stating that marshall was incapable of commanding a regiment when he was at C&GS
school. this doesn't change the fact that marshall was right, just a little side note.
I disagree completely. McChrystal should be relieved of his command effective immediately and allowed the chance to retire with honor and full benefits of a man of his rank. If he does not have confidence in his president that he can carry out the mission his president has given him effectively, he needs to step aside ASAP and let someone else who feels they can carry it out do so. In this country, thank g-d, the civilian government rules the military and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a parent sending my sons and daughters off to a war under the command of a general that doesn't seem to be confident in our current strategy.
McChrystal should resign. Immediately.
I've thought it through enough to know that when fear is your sounding board it's time to re-evaluate the path to your conclusion.
I would have to say it is safe to assume that you have not read the article. General McChrystal gave no indication whatsoever that he did not have confidence in the President or the Mission in Afghanistan. In fact, according to the article, he is the major proponent of the tactics being used.
I have to say, that if the President accepts the resignation or fires the general it is going to be a smear on the President rather than the General. It will tell me that the President let the media do his thinking for him, because nothing in the RS article is terribly critical of the President except for the comment of one adviser that claims that in the first one on one meeting between the President and the General, that the President didn't even seem to know who the general was. The only other criticism of the President was really a criticism of the tactics being used and that came from the author of the article himself in the articles conclusion and appears to be as much of a criticism of the General as it does of the President.
Immie
I disagree completely. McChrystal should be relieved of his command effective immediately and allowed the chance to retire with honor and full benefits of a man of his rank. If he does not have confidence in his president that he can carry out the mission his president has given him effectively, he needs to step aside ASAP and let someone else who feels they can carry it out do so. In this country, thank g-d, the civilian government rules the military and I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a parent sending my sons and daughters off to a war under the command of a general that doesn't seem to be confident in our current strategy.
McChrystal should resign. Immediately.
I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.
GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.
However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.
More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.
In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.