I agree w/ Olberman RE: McChrystal

[Misty]

Obama looks lame no matter what happens to Cristy McNickel.

Fight a war but don't hurt anybody. Good lord.

 

[VaYank5150]

Obama looks lame no matter what happens to Cristy McNickel.

Fight a war but don't hurt anybody. Good lord.

We declared "war"??? On who?

 

[Immanuel]

I would have to say it is safe to assume that you have not read the article. General McChrystal gave no indication whatsoever that he did not have confidence in the President or the Mission in Afghanistan. In fact, according to the article, he is the major proponent of the tactics being used.

I have to say, that if the President accepts the resignation or fires the general it is going to be a smear on the President rather than the General. It will tell me that the President let the media do his thinking for him, because nothing in the RS article is terribly critical of the President except for the comment of one adviser that claims that in the first one on one meeting between the President and the General, that the President didn't even seem to know who the general was. The only other criticism of the President was really a criticism of the tactics being used and that came from the author of the article himself in the articles conclusion and appears to be as much of a criticism of the General as it does of the President.

Immie

He should be a proponent of the tactics. They are his fucking war plan. Exactly! And the article portrayed him as such. He was not in any way, shape or form speaking out against the COIN policy we are currently undertaking.

I don't really get the animosity of McChrystal and his staff towards the White House. They've basically been given the keys to the car on Afghanistan. It's ridiculous.There wasn't any real animosity portrayed in the article. Not from the general to the White House. One comment about Biden and a joke from an adviser that played on the VP's name. That did not come from the general. The general was never attributed as to having said anything against the President. An adviser commented that the President didn't seem to know who the General was in their first meeting. That didn't come from the general. It came from an adviser.

Once again, the article did not portray any animosity between the General and his superiors except that the general said he never knew what kind of question to expect from the Vice President. He should resign for that?

Perhaps there is something there, either way it was completely inappropriate of the General and his staff to act in the matter that they did. It was not indicated that any of the quoted advisers were military men or even Americans. The article points out that his staff includes British advisers as well as Americans. We do not know who made the "Bite me?" joke. We do not know who it was that said that the President didn't know who McChrystal was. All that we know is that they were advisers.

I just don't think it should be a hanging crime. I also agree with you that firing the General will make the President look bad, however, in the end I trust he will act in accordance to what the SECDEF and Joint Chiefs advised him to do and not the "media" or his "ego" as your sqawkbox will tell you (if he does terminate him). I know very little about General McChrystal except what I have read in the article and quite frankly, I can't figure out what the big to do is all about. I've read the article once and scanned over it several other times. I don't see anything at all that should have pissed the President off and if he did get pissed off, God help us if the Russian Ambassador so much as passes gas in the Oval Office!

I think this should serve as an ultimatum to McChrystal to get to fucking work and stop bitching. The next incident should be the one he is relieved for.I think the President should have handed him a beer, said you're doing a great job out there, keep up the good work and bring me a souvenir from Kanduhar next time you come this way. Oh and by the way, who was that adviser that said that I was not prepared for our meeting. Tell him there's a beer here for him and to stop by the next time he's in town. I sure as hell hope the President has thicker skin than the media is portraying here.

Immie

 

[Avatar4321]

I just don't see how McChrystal can be trusted anymore. His objectives don't even match Obama's now that he brought everything out in the open.

I think he has mental problems the way he was shooting his mouth off. He's a loose cannon.

Course his objectives aren't the same as the President. The General wants to win and wants to let his troops protecting themselves.

The President is stopping this. The real question is how can President Obama be trusted?

 

[Avatar4321]

The point is not to make McCrystal eat humble pie. The point is that the young men and women actually dying on the battlefield now see that the leadership is fractured. They have lost confidence in McCrystal, and the Taliban will take advantage of it. We are not talking about political capital here. We are talking about lives being lost on a battlefield.

Get this 4 Star Egomaniac out of there now!

So why should we not make the President eat Humble Pie? He is the General's commanding officer. The Generals actions by definition reflect upon his Superior's leadership.

He shouldn't have been insobordinate. But like I said before, it takes guts to stand up for whats right even when you know you are going to lose your job.

 

[Avatar4321]

I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.

GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.

However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.

More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.

In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.

I think Obama ought to bust him down a couple ranks or so before accepting his resignation.

The man went off the reservation and as a top ranking general he ought to have known better.

If he does that, I suggest we bust his commander down a few ranks as well.

 

[VaYank5150]

I just don't see how McChrystal can be trusted anymore. His objectives don't even match Obama's now that he brought everything out in the open.

I think he has mental problems the way he was shooting his mouth off. He's a loose cannon.

Course his objectives aren't the same as the President. The General wants to win and wants to let his troops protecting themselves.

The President is stopping this. The real question is how can President Obama be trusted?

THIS should be rich. Please explain WHAT we can win, and then give us some examles of HOW we will win WHAT.

 

[Avatar4321]

Odd how the same folks who claimed criticizing Bush and his policies was harmful at best, anti-American at worst are standing up for McChystal (or is it MacArthur?)

Boot him out, Mr. President. You are the Commander-in Chief. No American Caesars, no rouge Generals. Not in a time of war.

Who is standing up for him? He was insubodinate.

 

[geauxtohell]

I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.

GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.

However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.

More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.

In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.

We cannot "win" in Afghanistan, just as we cannot "win" in Iraq. The players may change, but the results will remain the same. Bye, bye McChrystal.

I agree. What we can do, is too create a favorable environment to withdrawal. The problem in Afghanistan is more economic than anything else.

That should be our goal, to create an environment favorable for withdrawal.

I would also note that this problem is not unique to Afghanistan or Iraq. It's more inherent to the larger difference in a conventional war and unconventional war.

In an unconventional war, their will be no grand surrender and ticker tap parades. The enemy will simply assimilate or not.

 

[Avatar4321]

THIS should be rich. Please explain WHAT we can win, and then give us some examles of HOW we will win WHAT.

How about the war we are waging there?

Are you suggesting we can't win? If so, why are we there? What is the point? Why haven't we just withdrawn?

How? I have no clue. I don't know the troop positions on the ground. I don't know where the enemy is or details about their strategy. How on earth do you propose that I come up with a comprehensive strategy when I have absolutely no information from the ground?

The General has provided recommendations. The President has ignored them. In particular, the General wants to actually be able to engage the enemy. That's not an unheard concept at a time of war.

If you have more details of what's happening on the ground, I'd love to hear it and help formulate a strategy. But without the information it would be completely negligent to do so.

 

[Sarah G]

He didn't get to stay for the security meeting. I believe the general is out.

 

[geauxtohell]

He didn't get to stay for the security meeting. I believe the general is out.

I think that would be a mistake, but I trust that whatever decision was made was done so with the advice of the SECDEF and General Petraeus (McChrystal's boss).

 

[maineman]

You want me to move because you support a Policy that is so fucking stoopid you can't even begin to legitimately defend it? Yep. The iraqi islamic government loves people like you.

I don't happen to think that civilian control of the military is a stupid policy. I don't happen to believe that demanding that military personnel serve their country and not denigrate their chain of command is stupid policy. I am sorry that you do.

I didn't say civilian control of the military is stoopid.

You don't think it's stoopid to demand people die for Freedoms they cannot have themselves?

if civilian control of the military is not, in your mind, stupid and you do, in fact, embrace it, why would you think that allowing the good order and discipline of the military to be compromised by disrespectful insubordination would be acceptable?

Do you think that it is stupid to demand that soldiers on the battlefield follow the orders of their superiors, or do you think they ought to have the freedom to question their authority and walk off the battlefield like civilians can chose to resign and quit THEIR employment at any time?

 

[VaYank5150]

THIS should be rich. Please explain WHAT we can win, and then give us some examles of HOW we will win WHAT.

How about the war we are waging there?

Are you suggesting we can't win? If so, why are we there? What is the point? Why haven't we just withdrawn?

How? I have no clue. I don't know the troop positions on the ground. I don't know where the enemy is or details about their strategy. How on earth do you propose that I come up with a comprehensive strategy when I have absolutely no information from the ground?

The General has provided recommendations. The President has ignored them. In particular, the General wants to actually be able to engage the enemy. That's not an unheard concept at a time of war.

If you have more details of what's happening on the ground, I'd love to hear it and help formulate a strategy. But without the information it would be completely negligent to do so.

We are not at war with either Iraq or Afghanistan. No declaration of war has ever been made. What are we doing there? Getting our asses handed to us because our conventional military cannot fight terrorists with conventional tactics. Why are we there? Maybe you should ask Cheney.....he can't seem to keep his mouth shut these days.

In the end....WHAT do we, as American citizens WIN from these police actions? NOTHING.

 

[dilloduck]

THIS should be rich. Please explain WHAT we can win, and then give us some examles of HOW we will win WHAT.

How about the war we are waging there?

Are you suggesting we can't win? If so, why are we there? What is the point? Why haven't we just withdrawn?

How? I have no clue. I don't know the troop positions on the ground. I don't know where the enemy is or details about their strategy. How on earth do you propose that I come up with a comprehensive strategy when I have absolutely no information from the ground?

The General has provided recommendations. The President has ignored them. In particular, the General wants to actually be able to engage the enemy. That's not an unheard concept at a time of war.

If you have more details of what's happening on the ground, I'd love to hear it and help formulate a strategy. But without the information it would be completely negligent to do so.

We are not at war with either Iraq or Afghanistan. No declaration of war has ever been made. What are we doing there? Getting our asses handed to us because our conventional military cannot fight terrorists with conventional tactics. Why are we there? Maybe you should ask Cheney.....he can't seem to keep his mouth shut these days.

In the end....WHAT do we, as American citizens WIN from these police actions? NOTHING.

Tell Obama to bring their asses home.

 

[The Rabbi]

I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.

GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.

However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.

More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.

In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.

We cannot "win" in Afghanistan, just as we cannot "win" in Iraq. The players may change, but the results will remain the same. Bye, bye McChrystal.

Um, we won in Iraq. Or did you not get that memo?

 

[VaYank5150]

I know people are going to go nuts since Olberman said it, but he stated Obama should not accept General McChrystal's resignation.

GEN McChrystal has set a poor example and this will be a stain on his record and will keep him from being Chief Of The Staff of the Army or CJCOS.

However, he's been given virtually carte blanche to craft his Afghanistan strategy. Time is too limited and A-stan is too complicated to put a new guy in there.

More importantly, it will turn into a giant political football and will (once again) put the White House at odds with the senior rank and file (before people go nuts on this, keep in mind how many people Rumsfeld fired and Bush brought in a retired General to run the Army) and hand ammunition to the people that want to create the perception that Obama is soft.

In the meantime, Admiral Mullen needs to screw down the officer corps. It's pretty sad when the Generals have to be told to behave.

We cannot "win" in Afghanistan, just as we cannot "win" in Iraq. The players may change, but the results will remain the same. Bye, bye McChrystal.

Um, we won in Iraq. Or did you not get that memo?

We did? What did we win, specifically? And if that is the case, how come our troops are still getting killed over there?

 

[geauxtohell]

We cannot "win" in Afghanistan, just as we cannot "win" in Iraq. The players may change, but the results will remain the same. Bye, bye McChrystal.

Um, we won in Iraq. Or did you not get that memo?

We did? What did we win, specifically? And if that is the case, how come our troops are still getting killed over there?

Apparently a lot of people didn't get the memo that we "won" in Iraq, to include the insurgency.

Things are better. I suspect that is because the internal struggles over who would get the oil revenues have been settled.

I wonder how many new unmarked graves there are in the desert?

 

[The Rabbi]

We cannot "win" in Afghanistan, just as we cannot "win" in Iraq. The players may change, but the results will remain the same. Bye, bye McChrystal.

Um, we won in Iraq. Or did you not get that memo?

We did? What did we win, specifically? And if that is the case, how come our troops are still getting killed over there?

Are you really this obtuse? Don't answer that.
Go review the resolutions authorizing action in Iraq and tell me how we failed to achieve any of them.
Our troops are still getting killed in Korea. Is the Korean War still being fought?

 

[geauxtohell]

Um, we won in Iraq. Or did you not get that memo?

We did? What did we win, specifically? And if that is the case, how come our troops are still getting killed over there?

Are you really this obtuse? Don't answer that.
Go review the resolutions authorizing action in Iraq and tell me how we failed to achieve any of them.
Our troops are still getting killed in Korea. Is the Korean War still being fought?

The war in Korea is still technically going on. The last word out of the conflict was a cease fire, and not a surrender.