How to Understand Obama's Unemployment Figures

[bigrebnc1775]

There are no Obama appointees who have access.

Who needs access?

Anyone who wants to know what the numbers are in order to change them to what they want to be.
If you knew the actual process you would know that that's not true. It's not a matter of saying "I don't like X, I like Y," and boom! it's changed.

Again, explain the entire process from collection to publication and tell me what opportunity and ability the President has to change things. Why do keep dodging?

You can't get around the fact that obama's appointee's can control those numbers why bother explaining it? Once you accept it I might explain.

I know the entire process. And I know they can't control them. You do NOT know the process, so you're just bluffing.

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

This is a classic liberal tactic take something and make it out of context
I was not asking you who needs access

Who needs access? When you are the director and the Secretary of labor who can direct your department heads to make sure the numbers fit into what you want them to fit into.

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

Why try to prove it when you refuse to accept the facts. My saying the numbers are obama's number holds more truth, than your saying obama's appointee's don't have access to those numbers.

Those numbers come from departments who are run by people who were appointed by obama. Prove they don't have access or did not have them manipulated to favor their boss.

 

[pinqy]

Who needs access?

Anyone who wants to know what the numbers are in order to change them to what they want to be.
If you knew the actual process you would know that that's not true. It's not a matter of saying "I don't like X, I like Y," and boom! it's changed.

I know the entire process. And I know they can't control them. You do NOT know the process, so you're just bluffing.

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

This is a classic liberal tactic take something and make it out of context
I was not asking you who needs access

Who needs access? When you are the director and the Secretary of labor who can direct your department heads to make sure the numbers fit into what you want them to fit into.

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

Why try to prove it when you refuse to accept the facts. My saying the numbers are obama's number holds more truth, than your saying obama's appointee's don't have access to those numbers.

Those numbers come from departments who are run by people who were appointed by obama. Prove they don't have access or did not have them manipulated to favor their boss.

No, no, no....that's not how it works. You try and explain how it's done, since you claim it is.

I want the amusement of watching you trying and failing. And then I'll get satisfaction when you prove you really are stupid enough to think it's a matter of "Change this!" I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Toro]

Can't prove a negative.

The numbers are compiled by professionals. This isn't a serious topic.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Anyone who wants to know what the numbers are in order to change them to what they want to be.
If you knew the actual process you would know that that's not true. It's not a matter of saying "I don't like X, I like Y," and boom! it's changed.

I know the entire process. And I know they can't control them. You do NOT know the process, so you're just bluffing.

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

This is a classic liberal tactic take something and make it out of context
I was not asking you who needs access

I love what you're doing though:
You: "Accept my conclusion!"
Me: "Your conclusion doesn't make sense. Explain how you arrived at that conclusion."
You: "Not until you accept my conclusion."

Classic "how not to make a rational argument."

Why try to prove it when you refuse to accept the facts. My saying the numbers are obama's number holds more truth, than your saying obama's appointee's don't have access to those numbers.

Those numbers come from departments who are run by people who were appointed by obama. Prove they don't have access or did not have them manipulated to favor their boss.

No, no, no....that's not how it works. You try and explain how it's done, since you claim it is.

I want the amusement of watching you trying and failing. And then I'll get satisfaction when you prove you really are stupid enough to think it's a matter of "Change this!" I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Yes this is how it works
Who appointed the department heads of both departments?

 

[JakeStarkey]

bigrebnc has acted as the Saul Alinksy of the Right on this thread. He created a bogus OP and a bogus argument then demands evidence from the other side.

Fail.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

bigrebnc has acted as the Saul Alinksy of the Right on this thread. He created a bogus OP and a bogus argument then demands evidence from the other side.

Fail.

jokey defends obama more than almost any hard left winger here. Almost as much as rdean or TM

 

[JakeStarkey]

Fail.

 

[pinqy]

This is a classic liberal tactic take something and make it out of context
I was not asking you who needs access




Why try to prove it when you refuse to accept the facts. My saying the numbers are obama's number holds more truth, than your saying obama's appointee's don't have access to those numbers.

Those numbers come from departments who are run by people who were appointed by obama. Prove they don't have access or did not have them manipulated to favor their boss.

No, no, no....that's not how it works. You try and explain how it's done, since you claim it is.

I want the amusement of watching you trying and failing. And then I'll get satisfaction when you prove you really are stupid enough to think it's a matter of "Change this!" I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Yes this is how it works
Who appointed the department heads of both departments?

Director of the Census Bureau: Robert Groves. Appointed by President Obama

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Note that the Census is only involved as far as it's their people that collect the data. All data is immediately electronically submitted to BLS for processing.

No other agencies or agency heads are involved. By law, BLS cannot release any embargoed data to anyone other than the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers until 30 min before official release. The Chairman recieves the data the night before release, after the Commmissioner has approved it.

 

[idb]

The real point here is that bigrednec is asserting that there has been a dramatic drop in the unemployment figures.

 

[starcraftzzz]

bigrebnc has acted as the Saul Alinksy of the Right on this thread. He created a bogus OP and a bogus argument then demands evidence from the other side.

Fail.

Yea he is a complete dipshit

 

[bigrebnc1775]

bigrebnc has acted as the saul alinksy of the right on this thread. He created a bogus op and a bogus argument then demands evidence from the other side.

Fail.

yea he is a complete dipshit

let's not speak the truth about obama or his sheeple will come unhinged

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No, no, no....that's not how it works. You try and explain how it's done, since you claim it is.

I want the amusement of watching you trying and failing. And then I'll get satisfaction when you prove you really are stupid enough to think it's a matter of "Change this!" I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Yes this is how it works
Who appointed the department heads of both departments?

Director of the Census Bureau: Robert Groves. Appointed by President Obama

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Note that the Census is only involved as far as it's their people that collect the data. All data is immediately electronically submitted to BLS for processing.

No other agencies or agency heads are involved. By law, BLS cannot release any embargoed data to anyone other than the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers until 30 min before official release. The Chairman recieves the data the night before release, after the Commmissioner has approved it.

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Who over sees the labor department? And using Bush? obamush is the president now. The only change we have had is the severity of the damage had gotten worse.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The real point here is that bigrednec is asserting that there has been a dramatic drop in the unemployment figures.

Only on paper.

 

[pinqy]

bigrebnc has acted as the saul alinksy of the right on this thread. He created a bogus op and a bogus argument then demands evidence from the other side.

Fail.

yea he is a complete dipshit

let's not speak the truth about obama or his sheeple will come unhinged

Here's what I find interesting:
I have not said one word in support of Obama.
You're entire argument against the numbers is that "Obama is lying" (though you refuse to event try to show any evidence)

 

[pinqy]

Yes this is how it works
Who appointed the department heads of both departments?

Director of the Census Bureau: Robert Groves. Appointed by President Obama

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Note that the Census is only involved as far as it's their people that collect the data. All data is immediately electronically submitted to BLS for processing.

No other agencies or agency heads are involved. By law, BLS cannot release any embargoed data to anyone other than the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers until 30 min before official release. The Chairman recieves the data the night before release, after the Commmissioner has approved it.

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Who over sees the labor department? And using Bush? obamush is the president now. The only change we have had is the severity of the damage had gotten worse.

Hilda Solis is sec labor. But she has zero involvement in BLS activities and she is not informed of the numbers until 30 minutes before the release.

Not sure what you mean by "using Bush." Dr. Hall was appointed commissioner by Bush in Jan 2008 for a 4 year term which just expired. Unlike most appointed, the BLS position is NOT tied to a presidential term.

It's kind of hard for you to claim that a Bush appointee who would not be reappointed and couldn't be fired, would fudge the numbers in favor of Obama.

I doubt that will stop you, though.

 

[Foxfyre]

Scene II: Unemployment stimulates the economy

A gentle correction. I believe the comment was "Unemployment INSURANCE stimulates the economy." Big difference.

(What our fearless leader or his shadow, the Honorable Mrs. Pelosi, don't seem to get is the concept that every dollar paid in unemployment and/or unemployment insurance is a dollar that is not available to hire people, give them benefits, increase their wages, or expand businesses so that additional jobs are created. Even when the dollar is spent and thereby returned to the economy, there is a net effect of zero. Dollar in. Dollar out.

The only way to create real jobs and real economic growth is when there is value in products or services for the dollars involved. And that means private sector activity. Because government has to take money out of the economy in order to put it back in, and in the process siphons off a lot of it to fund the bloated bureaucracy, government spending is the most ridiculous means of stimulating the economy and will almost always make things much worse than they otherwise would have been.)

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Director of the Census Bureau: Robert Groves. Appointed by President Obama

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Note that the Census is only involved as far as it's their people that collect the data. All data is immediately electronically submitted to BLS for processing.

No other agencies or agency heads are involved. By law, BLS cannot release any embargoed data to anyone other than the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers until 30 min before official release. The Chairman recieves the data the night before release, after the Commmissioner has approved it.

Acting Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Jack Galvin. Unappointed, career civil servant.

Recently retired Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics: Dr. Keith Hall. Appointed by President George W. Bush.

Who over sees the labor department? And using Bush? obamush is the president now. The only change we have had is the severity of the damage had gotten worse.

Hilda Solis is sec labor. But she has zero involvement in BLS activities and she is not informed of the numbers until 30 minutes before the release.

Not sure what you mean by "using Bush." Dr. Hall was appointed commissioner by Bush in Jan 2008 for a 4 year term which just expired. Unlike most appointed, the BLS position is NOT tied to a presidential term.

It's kind of hard for you to claim that a Bush appointee who would not be reappointed and couldn't be fired, would fudge the numbers in favor of Obama.

I doubt that will stop you, though.

Is she an obama appointment?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

yea he is a complete dipshit

let's not speak the truth about obama or his sheeple will come unhinged

Here's what I find interesting:
I have not said one word in support of Obama.
You're entire argument against the numbers is that "Obama is lying" (though you refuse to event try to show any evidence)

Yes the numbers are lying. with high unemployment those people have got to protect their jobs along with obama's job.
Or you guessed it they will also be among the unemployed.

 

[pinqy]

Who over sees the labor department? And using Bush? obamush is the president now. The only change we have had is the severity of the damage had gotten worse.

Hilda Solis is sec labor. But she has zero involvement in BLS activities and she is not informed of the numbers until 30 minutes before the release.

Not sure what you mean by "using Bush." Dr. Hall was appointed commissioner by Bush in Jan 2008 for a 4 year term which just expired. Unlike most appointed, the BLS position is NOT tied to a presidential term.

It's kind of hard for you to claim that a Bush appointee who would not be reappointed and couldn't be fired, would fudge the numbers in favor of Obama.

I doubt that will stop you, though.

Is she an obama appointment?

And you reveal your ignorance even more if you don't know how Cabinet appointments work. This is getting to be a long list.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hilda Solis is sec labor. But she has zero involvement in BLS activities and she is not informed of the numbers until 30 minutes before the release.

Not sure what you mean by "using Bush." Dr. Hall was appointed commissioner by Bush in Jan 2008 for a 4 year term which just expired. Unlike most appointed, the BLS position is NOT tied to a presidential term.

It's kind of hard for you to claim that a Bush appointee who would not be reappointed and couldn't be fired, would fudge the numbers in favor of Obama.

I doubt that will stop you, though.

Is she an obama appointment?

And you reveal your ignorance even more if you don't know how Cabinet appointments work. This is getting to be a long list.

The sectary of labor is an obama appoint you fucking moron.