How to clean up the banking system...

[EdwardBaiamonte]

When you guarantee the banks will be bailed out because "if we don't he world will end", then of course the banks are not going to be a prudent.
.

lets not forget our banks were not really bailed out. They quickly paid the money back. Many went bankrupt and many that survived or merged saw stockholder value wiped out completely! Lessons were learned for sure and if there is a next time the lessons will be even harsher still so I"m not worried at all.

the worry in America is not that banks will be bailed out but that people will be bailed out and never pay back a penny. Thats where the real moral hazard is!!

 

[Slashsnake]

When a company makes too many fraud claims?

The liability shift in 2015 includes any swiped transaction with a chipped card unless the transaction is:

A) Over the internet or phone
B) At a gas pump
C) At an ATM, which had their own liability shift three months ago.

The fraudulent transaction could be $1 and the merchant would be liable to pay it back as long as an EMV card was swiped.

The liability shift of 2015 is a result of Target, Best Buy, Michael's data breach... But also because we have 25% of the world's credit cards but 50% of the world's credit card fraud.

Personally I think a customer's information should be safeguarded over profits. Not all bank's refund a customer's fraudulent credit card transactions and fees without a fight and within a timely manner... So now what happens? Customers move to credit cards.

Interesting, but that isn't what I read. As long as they have an EMV credit card swipe, and meet the requirements, if someone commits fraud, the merchant is not liable. VISA or Mastercard (who named that), eat the loss. The merchant loses nothing.

If they do not have the EMV chip-card reader, then they lose the money. If they do not upgrade to chip-card enabled readers, and someone commits card fraud, then the merchant is held liable, because they didn't have the required security.

Before the liability shift, they never suffered loss. The card companies ate the loss.

But also because we have 25% of the world's credit cards but 50% of the world's credit card fraud.

True.... in 2014. But it wasn't that bad before. Like I said in the prior post, as the fraud costs went up, and the liability shift happened, then the demand for more security came.

Personally I think a customer's information should be safeguarded over profits. Not all bank's refund a customer's fraudulent credit card transactions and fees without a fight and within a timely manner

Well that's a pretty easy thing to say, when you are not the one paying the bill.

When the shoe is on the other foot, you don't see people demanding they themselves pay out the money.

There was a guy who bought a house, and found out it had lead paint, and of course when he has to foot the bill, getting rid of lead paint wasn't as easy as "well he should just fork out the cash for safety...".

Pretty easy to say, when it's not you paying out the cash. Number one thing, every human being should do when considering any argument... put yourself in the place of the person you think 'should do something'.

Now as for "not all banks refund fraudulent credit card transactions"... I have no idea what you are talking about. If you read the VISA policy statements for every VISA card, such as my bank card, VISA covers fraud 100%.

Your bank has nothing to do with it.

Alternatively if you have a bank issued card, that is NOT a credit card (no VISA or Mastercard logo), then it depends on the policy of that specific bank, or credit union. Most though, still cover most fraud. It's possible you have a few somewhere that don't.

I could walk into Wegmans today with a chipped card owned by someone else with the magnetic stripe cloned or whatever, and just because they have Verifone MX925's doesn't mean they are excused from the liability shift. The chip reader of the terminal needs to be turned on and active before they're covered by either the bank (for not having a chip on the card) or the Visa or whatever. So if I spent $200 at Wegmans today with that card, they'd be out of that money, not the bank or Visa/MasterCard/Discover/AMEX, because they did their part. In fact it kinda pisses me off how stupid their IT department looks... Wegmans has been announcing since early 2014 that they'd have their chip readers activated by October 2015, but since then they've been lying to their customers by pushing the expected date back 3-6 months every time people ask why they've missed their target... "soon" is not three years and counting later, especially since they've had the capable terminals since 2010.

Yes there is the issue with cost regarding the purchase of new terminals; however, these companies were warned way back in 2011 about this liability shift and had four years to save here and there so they had the funds to purchase these terminals. Pizza Hut is an embarrassment for an example... What did they do, spend $5 on the cheap plastic readers that are taped to the side of their screen about 20 years ago? Pizza Hut should've ponied up and saved about a $1 million every quarter for a few years and they could've easily purchased and installed real, wireless card readers that also take contactless in their restaurants.

I'm not mad at you, but it really bugs me when people assume that franchise merchant chains are all part of one big company.

They are not. Pizza Hut is a franchise chain. A Franchise is owned by a private owner, that only has the money from the profits of that specific store. Even the company owned stores, are still separate companies. Each store succeeds or fails on it's own profits.

Moreover, the card readers, are all interconnected to the stores Point-Of-Sale system. Meaning that depending on what system they have, replacing all the card readers, may require a complete upgrade the entire system.

Lastly, aside from the cost of hiring professionals to install and upgrade the new POS system, the system itself may require internet capability, which the newer stores in metro areas wouldn't have a problem with, but stores in rural and small towns may. And that would incur an additional monthly expense.

This idea that because Pizza Hut HQ, or Wendy's HQ, or McDonald's HQ has billions of dollars, means that each store is fabulously wealthy, is simply not true.

You walk into a store of any chain, and that store could be on the verge of bankruptcy, while the main company is making billions. I don't know how much the profit margin of a Pizza Hut is, but a Papa Johns is just 6%. That means when you buy a $12 large pizza, they are only making $1 at best. Maybe he has the money to replace all those readers, and maybe not.

But if you think that corporate head quarters is going to pay to have all those machines and POS system throughout all the stores in the country replaced... not going to happen. Each store is it's own company. It has to pay for upgrades on its own.

That said, it would be great if everyone did everything years in advance, but that's not human nature.

I remember watching a news story about welfare reform in the 1990s, and this reporter was interviewing this lady who was getting kicked off welfare. The reporter was asking, how they could possibly survive, with her kids.

She said, they would be better off now, because she'll get a job, and have money to live in a better place.

That stunned the reporter who was on live TV, and she stammered and asked... why didn't she get a job sooner then?

Because she didn't have to.

Point being, people don't often change stuff for the better, until they have no other option. We have phrases for this, that have existed for decades.

"necessity is the mother of invention"

What do you think that means? It means people don't take the time to create something new and better, until they have to. The moment they have no choice but to come up with something better, then suddenly they create something better.

So yes, all these companies knew the liability shift was coming.... and wouldn't it have been create if they had made all the changes decades ago. Well... welcome to human nature. People don't change unless they have to.

It's amazing how many drunks, only find help for their alcoholism, after they have lost their family, their job, their home, and everything. Then when they have absolutely no choice, they suddenly find help.

That's how it works. We're all human beings, and we all do this. My father made me mow the lawn with this crusty old lawn mow, that barely ran, and hand bars would fall off, and the auto drive didn't work so it if it accidentally engaged, you slammed to a stop. As long as I was the one mowing, it wasn't a big deal. The very month... literally the month I moved out from my parents house, guess who had a new law mower?

That's how people are. They deal with it, when they have to deal with it.

Corporations are just a bunch of average people. They operate exactly the same way.

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

 

[Andylusion]

When a company makes too many fraud claims?

The liability shift in 2015 includes any swiped transaction with a chipped card unless the transaction is:

A) Over the internet or phone
B) At a gas pump
C) At an ATM, which had their own liability shift three months ago.

The fraudulent transaction could be $1 and the merchant would be liable to pay it back as long as an EMV card was swiped.

The liability shift of 2015 is a result of Target, Best Buy, Michael's data breach... But also because we have 25% of the world's credit cards but 50% of the world's credit card fraud.

Personally I think a customer's information should be safeguarded over profits. Not all bank's refund a customer's fraudulent credit card transactions and fees without a fight and within a timely manner... So now what happens? Customers move to credit cards.

Interesting, but that isn't what I read. As long as they have an EMV credit card swipe, and meet the requirements, if someone commits fraud, the merchant is not liable. VISA or Mastercard (who named that), eat the loss. The merchant loses nothing.

If they do not have the EMV chip-card reader, then they lose the money. If they do not upgrade to chip-card enabled readers, and someone commits card fraud, then the merchant is held liable, because they didn't have the required security.

Before the liability shift, they never suffered loss. The card companies ate the loss.

But also because we have 25% of the world's credit cards but 50% of the world's credit card fraud.

True.... in 2014. But it wasn't that bad before. Like I said in the prior post, as the fraud costs went up, and the liability shift happened, then the demand for more security came.

Personally I think a customer's information should be safeguarded over profits. Not all bank's refund a customer's fraudulent credit card transactions and fees without a fight and within a timely manner

Well that's a pretty easy thing to say, when you are not the one paying the bill.

When the shoe is on the other foot, you don't see people demanding they themselves pay out the money.

There was a guy who bought a house, and found out it had lead paint, and of course when he has to foot the bill, getting rid of lead paint wasn't as easy as "well he should just fork out the cash for safety...".

Pretty easy to say, when it's not you paying out the cash. Number one thing, every human being should do when considering any argument... put yourself in the place of the person you think 'should do something'.

Now as for "not all banks refund fraudulent credit card transactions"... I have no idea what you are talking about. If you read the VISA policy statements for every VISA card, such as my bank card, VISA covers fraud 100%.

Your bank has nothing to do with it.

Alternatively if you have a bank issued card, that is NOT a credit card (no VISA or Mastercard logo), then it depends on the policy of that specific bank, or credit union. Most though, still cover most fraud. It's possible you have a few somewhere that don't.

I could walk into Wegmans today with a chipped card owned by someone else with the magnetic stripe cloned or whatever, and just because they have Verifone MX925's doesn't mean they are excused from the liability shift. The chip reader of the terminal needs to be turned on and active before they're covered by either the bank (for not having a chip on the card) or the Visa or whatever. So if I spent $200 at Wegmans today with that card, they'd be out of that money, not the bank or Visa/MasterCard/Discover/AMEX, because they did their part. In fact it kinda pisses me off how stupid their IT department looks... Wegmans has been announcing since early 2014 that they'd have their chip readers activated by October 2015, but since then they've been lying to their customers by pushing the expected date back 3-6 months every time people ask why they've missed their target... "soon" is not three years and counting later, especially since they've had the capable terminals since 2010.

Yes there is the issue with cost regarding the purchase of new terminals; however, these companies were warned way back in 2011 about this liability shift and had four years to save here and there so they had the funds to purchase these terminals. Pizza Hut is an embarrassment for an example... What did they do, spend $5 on the cheap plastic readers that are taped to the side of their screen about 20 years ago? Pizza Hut should've ponied up and saved about a $1 million every quarter for a few years and they could've easily purchased and installed real, wireless card readers that also take contactless in their restaurants.

I'm not mad at you, but it really bugs me when people assume that franchise merchant chains are all part of one big company.

They are not. Pizza Hut is a franchise chain. A Franchise is owned by a private owner, that only has the money from the profits of that specific store. Even the company owned stores, are still separate companies. Each store succeeds or fails on it's own profits.

Moreover, the card readers, are all interconnected to the stores Point-Of-Sale system. Meaning that depending on what system they have, replacing all the card readers, may require a complete upgrade the entire system.

Lastly, aside from the cost of hiring professionals to install and upgrade the new POS system, the system itself may require internet capability, which the newer stores in metro areas wouldn't have a problem with, but stores in rural and small towns may. And that would incur an additional monthly expense.

This idea that because Pizza Hut HQ, or Wendy's HQ, or McDonald's HQ has billions of dollars, means that each store is fabulously wealthy, is simply not true.

You walk into a store of any chain, and that store could be on the verge of bankruptcy, while the main company is making billions. I don't know how much the profit margin of a Pizza Hut is, but a Papa Johns is just 6%. That means when you buy a $12 large pizza, they are only making $1 at best. Maybe he has the money to replace all those readers, and maybe not.

But if you think that corporate head quarters is going to pay to have all those machines and POS system throughout all the stores in the country replaced... not going to happen. Each store is it's own company. It has to pay for upgrades on its own.

That said, it would be great if everyone did everything years in advance, but that's not human nature.

I remember watching a news story about welfare reform in the 1990s, and this reporter was interviewing this lady who was getting kicked off welfare. The reporter was asking, how they could possibly survive, with her kids.

She said, they would be better off now, because she'll get a job, and have money to live in a better place.

That stunned the reporter who was on live TV, and she stammered and asked... why didn't she get a job sooner then?

Because she didn't have to.

Point being, people don't often change stuff for the better, until they have no other option. We have phrases for this, that have existed for decades.

"necessity is the mother of invention"

What do you think that means? It means people don't take the time to create something new and better, until they have to. The moment they have no choice but to come up with something better, then suddenly they create something better.

So yes, all these companies knew the liability shift was coming.... and wouldn't it have been create if they had made all the changes decades ago. Well... welcome to human nature. People don't change unless they have to.

It's amazing how many drunks, only find help for their alcoholism, after they have lost their family, their job, their home, and everything. Then when they have absolutely no choice, they suddenly find help.

That's how it works. We're all human beings, and we all do this. My father made me mow the lawn with this crusty old lawn mow, that barely ran, and hand bars would fall off, and the auto drive didn't work so it if it accidentally engaged, you slammed to a stop. As long as I was the one mowing, it wasn't a big deal. The very month... literally the month I moved out from my parents house, guess who had a new law mower?

That's how people are. They deal with it, when they have to deal with it.

Corporations are just a bunch of average people. They operate exactly the same way.

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

 

[Slashsnake]

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

Not exactly. I mean I guess if you're an idiot owner and your employees are lazy you have to intergrate the POS system with the card reader. For everything else, you type in the numbers on the reader, give it to the customer so they can tap/insert their card, and then the receipts print out for a record. I stand by my point that business owners make it harder than it should be.

I find it funny how every small business diner/restaurant I've been to takes AMEX and has chip readers, but yet these franchise owners at major chains somehow make any excuse to not get chip readers that are able to be used by the consumer.

 

[Andylusion]

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

Not exactly. I mean I guess if you're an idiot owner and your employees are lazy you have to intergrate the POS system with the card reader. For everything else, you type in the numbers on the reader, give it to the customer so they can tap/insert their card, and then the receipts print out for a record. I stand by my point that business owners make it harder than it should be.

I find it funny how every small business diner/restaurant I've been to takes AMEX and has chip readers, but yet these franchise owners at major chains somehow make any excuse to not get chip readers that are able to be used by the consumer.

Now you must be joking. The small businesses are the ones that don't have the chip readers yet. What are you talking about? Are you just making this up now?

Most of the big franchises have the updated equipment where I live. Are you just like out in the desert or something?

Obviously larger stores, with bigger profits, are going to find it way easier to update their systems. Are you living in no-where land? Is that why you didn't know I had a chip card, and that the restaurants I've been to have kiosks at the tables that you can pay with your card without even talking to a waitress?

My barber is an independent shop. He a reader that's 10 years old. He doesn't have any plans to update it at all, because it would require him to get network connection to the shop, and he's said he's not paying for it.

Meanwhile the get-and-go quick mart, has a kiosk where you pay and everything, without even talking to a cashier.

Do you live in the hills or something? A corn field in Kansas? Everything you've been saying, including your rant about 600% profit margins at Pizza Hut.... nothing you have said even remotely matches reality. Are you posting from Uganda or something? This some sort of prank poster?

 

[Slashsnake]

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

Not exactly. I mean I guess if you're an idiot owner and your employees are lazy you have to intergrate the POS system with the card reader. For everything else, you type in the numbers on the reader, give it to the customer so they can tap/insert their card, and then the receipts print out for a record. I stand by my point that business owners make it harder than it should be.

I find it funny how every small business diner/restaurant I've been to takes AMEX and has chip readers, but yet these franchise owners at major chains somehow make any excuse to not get chip readers that are able to be used by the consumer.

Now you must be joking. The small businesses are the ones that don't have the chip readers yet. What are you talking about? Are you just making this up now?

Most of the big franchises have the updated equipment where I live. Are you just like out in the desert or something?

Obviously larger stores, with bigger profits, are going to find it way easier to update their systems. Are you living in no-where land? Is that why you didn't know I had a chip card, and that the restaurants I've been to have kiosks at the tables that you can pay with your card without even talking to a waitress?

My barber is an independent shop. He a reader that's 10 years old. He doesn't have any plans to update it at all, because it would require him to get network connection to the shop, and he's said he's not paying for it.

Meanwhile the get-and-go quick mart, has a kiosk where you pay and everything, without even talking to a cashier.

Do you live in the hills or something? A corn field in Kansas? Everything you've been saying, including your rant about 600% profit margins at Pizza Hut.... nothing you have said even remotely matches reality. Are you posting from Uganda or something? This some sort of prank poster?

I'm pretty sure you're the one that must be joking. A lot of small businesses have the chip readers, perhaps you just don't pay enough attention to detail. Installations Unlimited, my local diner, and my local bowling alley, along with many others have them and they're actually on and usable. They use the smaller ones where the cashier types in the amount and then the receipt comes out of the top. They're able to use these readers because they don't give a crap about integrating it with a goofy cash register with a swipe reader built into the side of it

Here's a picture of one, and look, only $148.00 with free shipping on Amazon! God damn, what an expense that must be for a franchise owner!

When did I ever say you didn't have a chip card? Never. Probably because you replied to that post in a way that made zero sense like you had no idea what I was talking about.

I don't care about your barber... He's an idiot. It's 2017 and they don't have an internet connection to a commercial building, go figure you're asking me if I live out in the boondocks (which I don't) but yet your own barber doesn't have internet in his building. If he doesn't have internet, how does he process an online, card present transaction? (which is what we use in the U.S) because you need to use a PIN if you're doing an offline transaction.

 

[Andylusion]

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

Not exactly. I mean I guess if you're an idiot owner and your employees are lazy you have to intergrate the POS system with the card reader. For everything else, you type in the numbers on the reader, give it to the customer so they can tap/insert their card, and then the receipts print out for a record. I stand by my point that business owners make it harder than it should be.

I find it funny how every small business diner/restaurant I've been to takes AMEX and has chip readers, but yet these franchise owners at major chains somehow make any excuse to not get chip readers that are able to be used by the consumer.

Now you must be joking. The small businesses are the ones that don't have the chip readers yet. What are you talking about? Are you just making this up now?

Most of the big franchises have the updated equipment where I live. Are you just like out in the desert or something?

Obviously larger stores, with bigger profits, are going to find it way easier to update their systems. Are you living in no-where land? Is that why you didn't know I had a chip card, and that the restaurants I've been to have kiosks at the tables that you can pay with your card without even talking to a waitress?

My barber is an independent shop. He a reader that's 10 years old. He doesn't have any plans to update it at all, because it would require him to get network connection to the shop, and he's said he's not paying for it.

Meanwhile the get-and-go quick mart, has a kiosk where you pay and everything, without even talking to a cashier.

Do you live in the hills or something? A corn field in Kansas? Everything you've been saying, including your rant about 600% profit margins at Pizza Hut.... nothing you have said even remotely matches reality. Are you posting from Uganda or something? This some sort of prank poster?

I'm pretty sure you're the one that must be joking. A lot of small businesses have the chip readers, perhaps you just don't pay enough attention to detail. Installations Unlimited, my local diner, and my local bowling alley, along with many others have them and they're actually on and usable. They use the smaller ones where the cashier types in the amount and then the receipt comes out of the top. They're able to use these readers because they don't give a crap about integrating it with a goofy cash register with a swipe reader built into the side of it

Here's a picture of one, and look, only $148.00 with free shipping on Amazon! God damn, what an expense that must be for a franchise owner!

When did I ever say you didn't have a chip card? Never. Probably because you replied to that post in a way that made zero sense like you had no idea what I was talking about.

I don't care about your barber... He's an idiot. It's 2017 and they don't have an internet connection to a commercial building, go figure you're asking me if I live out in the boondocks (which I don't) but yet your own barber doesn't have internet in his building. If he doesn't have internet, how does he process an online, card present transaction? (which is what we use in the U.S) because you need to use a PIN if you're doing an offline transaction.

No, they have internet. He refused to pay for it. He doesn't make millions. He makes about $50,000 a year.

The card transaction is dial up I believe.

Again you seem to be missing the point I keep making. So I'm only repeating this one more time.

The POS system..... the Point-of-sale system.... has a card reader on it.

That card reader is proprietary TO THAT system.

This isn't legos. You can't just buy a Verifone VX 520, and plug it into the POS system. It does not work.

What part of this do you not get?

The system is designed for a specific card reader. It only works with THAT card reader. You can't just grab a random card reader off the shelf, and plug it into your POS system, and have it work. It won't.

Now, I'm done arguing with you about this. You either are smart enough to grasp this point, or you are simply not smart enough to be in this discussion. Which is it?

I'm good either way. But I'm not wasting anymore of my time with you on this point. Do you understand... or not?

 

[Slashsnake]

Even better, if Pizza Hut has a franchise owner for each restaurant, they can purchase one terminal that costs a few hundred dollars, I mean it's really not a large expense. The software however has to be pushed down by corporate, but that shouldn't really be much of an issue for a simple counter top card reader. When you charge $15 a pizza before tip for each delivery the owner can pony up $300 for one counter top reader.

I highly doubt Papa Johns has a 6% profit margin on a $12 pizza, I think it's more like a 600% profit before expenses. The pizza literally costs a couple of bucks to make, and then they charge a delivery fee if they have to pay a delivery driver to get the food to the customers, which basically pays for their wage. Most likely Papa Johns only hires part time workers so they don't have to pay benefits either.

The cost excuse of buying new readers is completely b.s. when you can buy counter top readers for $300. Can't afford $300 as a business owner? Get of out franchising because you suck at it.

That profit margin was the official franchise investor information from Papa Johns Corporate. Since profit margins are how chains sell franchises, if anything the number would be over estimated. Of course if they over estimated enough that people got into the franchises, and found no one hit those numbers, it would be a massive fraud lawsuit, that would likely sink the company.

So.... 6% is the number.

As for the $300.... as I said before, many of the POS systems have the card reader as part of the system. You may have to replace the entire POS system, to just replace that card reader.

If you think that isn't true, feel free to prove it. But I've worked at places where we had a card reader go bad, and you couldn't upgrade to a newer model, because the Point-of-sale system was designed for that specific card reader, and no other.

Not exactly. I mean I guess if you're an idiot owner and your employees are lazy you have to intergrate the POS system with the card reader. For everything else, you type in the numbers on the reader, give it to the customer so they can tap/insert their card, and then the receipts print out for a record. I stand by my point that business owners make it harder than it should be.

I find it funny how every small business diner/restaurant I've been to takes AMEX and has chip readers, but yet these franchise owners at major chains somehow make any excuse to not get chip readers that are able to be used by the consumer.

Now you must be joking. The small businesses are the ones that don't have the chip readers yet. What are you talking about? Are you just making this up now?

Most of the big franchises have the updated equipment where I live. Are you just like out in the desert or something?

Obviously larger stores, with bigger profits, are going to find it way easier to update their systems. Are you living in no-where land? Is that why you didn't know I had a chip card, and that the restaurants I've been to have kiosks at the tables that you can pay with your card without even talking to a waitress?

My barber is an independent shop. He a reader that's 10 years old. He doesn't have any plans to update it at all, because it would require him to get network connection to the shop, and he's said he's not paying for it.

Meanwhile the get-and-go quick mart, has a kiosk where you pay and everything, without even talking to a cashier.

Do you live in the hills or something? A corn field in Kansas? Everything you've been saying, including your rant about 600% profit margins at Pizza Hut.... nothing you have said even remotely matches reality. Are you posting from Uganda or something? This some sort of prank poster?

I'm pretty sure you're the one that must be joking. A lot of small businesses have the chip readers, perhaps you just don't pay enough attention to detail. Installations Unlimited, my local diner, and my local bowling alley, along with many others have them and they're actually on and usable. They use the smaller ones where the cashier types in the amount and then the receipt comes out of the top. They're able to use these readers because they don't give a crap about integrating it with a goofy cash register with a swipe reader built into the side of it

Here's a picture of one, and look, only $148.00 with free shipping on Amazon! God damn, what an expense that must be for a franchise owner!

When did I ever say you didn't have a chip card? Never. Probably because you replied to that post in a way that made zero sense like you had no idea what I was talking about.

I don't care about your barber... He's an idiot. It's 2017 and they don't have an internet connection to a commercial building, go figure you're asking me if I live out in the boondocks (which I don't) but yet your own barber doesn't have internet in his building. If he doesn't have internet, how does he process an online, card present transaction? (which is what we use in the U.S) because you need to use a PIN if you're doing an offline transaction.

No, they have internet. He refused to pay for it. He doesn't make millions. He makes about $50,000 a year.

The card transaction is dial up I believe.

Again you seem to be missing the point I keep making. So I'm only repeating this one more time.

The POS system..... the Point-of-sale system.... has a card reader on it.

That card reader is proprietary TO THAT system.

This isn't legos. You can't just buy a Verifone VX 520, and plug it into the POS system. It does not work.

What part of this do you not get?

The system is designed for a specific card reader. It only works with THAT card reader. You can't just grab a random card reader off the shelf, and plug it into your POS system, and have it work. It won't.

Now, I'm done arguing with you about this. You either are smart enough to grasp this point, or you are simply not smart enough to be in this discussion. Which is it?

I'm good either way. But I'm not wasting anymore of my time with you on this point. Do you understand... or not?

If the card transaction is dial up then he has internet, lmao. Dial up is still internet. You don't need a SYSTEM unless you're a big company like Wegmans or Home Depot... If you're a franchise owner you can get away with a cheap reader like the above. My local little Caesars takes chip transactions with a reader like that and it took all of 20 minutes to install between the hardware and the software, before that they had MX915's that looked a little old.