How Pharma and Insurance Intend to Kill the Public Option

[Barb]

Corporations
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed
corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a
trial of strength and bid
defiance to the laws of our country."
Thomas Jefferson, 1812
Source:Liberty Quotes

Barb,

I rather liked that quote actually and sort of sums of what I have been saying that under the commerce clause of the constitution this issue of costs can be solved rather easily with a congress that is willing to work within it's framework and provide a path through regulation and de-regulation a method to reduce overall costs and stimulate competetion. Jefferson however, like just about all the founding fathers was very much in favor of limited Govt. and his views on healthcare it can be said were very much influenced by Dr. Benjamin Rush.

"[The people] are in truth the only legitimate proprietors of the soil and government." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1813. ME 19:197

"I consider the foundation of the [Federal] Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people." [10th Amendment] To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:146

No matter though, I'm sure though some tax provision that this healthcare bill will be passed and the sides that are advocating this will be well satisfied till they see for themselves its result.

He was about limited government. He was especially about limited corporate influence on government.

That's what I don't understand about any of you. Honestly, and I'm trying not to be horrible here.

but

What part of "working against your own interests" don't you get? "The market" has a proven track record for eating its own tail, and failing.Where the public good, and public goods are to be considered,the market is not a reliable gauge. Period.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Why would people give up what they have and believe the promises of a President who has accomplished nothing?

Why would I give up what? $15,000 per year that I can't afford? You know, honestly, if the greedy insurance companies wouldn't have fucked me, I would be in full support of the current system. But the current system is not set up for the best interest of the people. It's set up for the insurance companies to make as much profit as possible with no regard to the health or well being of those it is supposed to protect.

If you stay in a private plan, it will be taxed. It will be more expensive. It may even disappear altogether.

If you have a public plan, it will be rationed.

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

 

[sealybobo]

They didn't even want to give single payer a seat at the table. Today they get a seat at the table.

A Seat at the Table for Single-Payer

Now single payer is going to get an opportunity to squash all the right wing garbage can talking points on why it won't work.

Government making people's healthcare decisions doesn't work.

You keep saying that but what you don't realize and what we DO realize is that you are just repeating what the for profits are telling you to say.

Then if it won't work, tell us how we are going to stop the for profits from raising their prices another 400%?

Until you can't afford it anymore, or your company can't afford it anymore. That's what is happening to millions of Americans.

So tell us your solution. And don't you say less regulations unless you are specific.

We have been warning you for years about putting healthcare in the for profits hands. You'll get old dummy. Then you'll see when you are in the nursing home, no tv, because tv wastes electricity. And you don't talk, so you won't complain if they go to 2 meals a day. And the professional that took care of you is too expensive, so they hire an illegal for $6 hr, and he molests your stupid ass. Is that what it is going to take to convince you that FOR PROFIT healthcare is not right?

Or you lose your job and come down with something. It would bankrupt you!!! And the next insurance company won't take you because of a pre existing condition.

Tell us your fix.

 

[auditor0007]

Why would people give up what they have and believe the promises of a President who has accomplished nothing?

Why would I give up what? $15,000 per year that I can't afford? You know, honestly, if the greedy insurance companies wouldn't have fucked me, I would be in full support of the current system. But the current system is not set up for the best interest of the people. It's set up for the insurance companies to make as much profit as possible with no regard to the health or well being of those it is supposed to protect.

If you stay in a private plan, it will be taxed. It will be more expensive. It may even disappear altogether.

If you have a public plan, it will be rationed.

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

You seem to be missing the point that I don't have an option of an affordable private plan. The insurance companies have seen to that when I moved from one state to another. So I really could give a fuck if private plans disappear since I can't get one anyway. The funny thing is that you can make one point after another against government healthcare, but if you were in my shoes, you'd be in favor of it. Either that or you'd be happy going without any insurance whatsoever.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

That's being unfair to our President, since he has managed to accomplish:

* Nearly quadrupling the budget deficit
* Massive seizures of private property
* Granting unprecedented powers to unelected officials of the executive branch

You should give the guy a break, after all he hasn't been in office long enough to completely destroy the country yet.

 

[sealybobo]

Corporations
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed
corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a
trial of strength and bid
defiance to the laws of our country."
Thomas Jefferson, 1812
Source:Liberty Quotes

Barb,

I rather liked that quote actually and sort of sums of what I have been saying that under the commerce clause of the constitution this issue of costs can be solved rather easily with a congress that is willing to work within it's framework and provide a path through regulation and de-regulation a method to reduce overall costs and stimulate competetion. Jefferson however, like just about all the founding fathers was very much in favor of limited Govt. and his views on healthcare it can be said were very much influenced by Dr. Benjamin Rush.

"[The people] are in truth the only legitimate proprietors of the soil and government." --Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1813. ME 19:197

"I consider the foundation of the [Federal] Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people." [10th Amendment] To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." --Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on National Bank, 1791. ME 3:146

No matter though, I'm sure though some tax provision that this healthcare bill will be passed and the sides that are advocating this will be well satisfied till they see for themselves its result.

He was about limited government. He was especially about limited corporate influence on government.

That's what I don't understand about any of you. Honestly, and I'm trying not to be horrible here.

but

What part of "working against your own interests" don't you get? "The market" has a proven track record for eating its own tail, and failing.Where the public good, and public goods are to be considered,the market is not a reliable gauge. Period.

He's brainwashed barb. Government sucks. And its hard to argue with him on that. But they are using that fact to screw us on oil, defense, healthcare, banks, etc.

Hey Barb. Want me to scare you away from government controlled healthcare? Imagine Bush and Tom Delay in charge of government and they get to screw with it. They would have privatized all the profits and socialized all the losses.

But single payer will just be the middle man. Instead of having a thousand for profit thieving insurance companies being the middle man, one government agency will be the go between. And they won't deny anyone care, make a profit, need to advertise or give ceo's $20 billion.

But the government shouldn't be able to fuck with it in future administrations.

The thought of Bush controlling the government, or the idea that anyone so greedy/evil could ever be president, scares me when I think of him getting to steal from the funds.

The GOP purposely overspent on defense so they could bankrupt the treasury and end social programs they don't approve of. Helping poor people is throwing money away in their eyes.

The whole recession was done on purpose. Record profits in the middle of the decade, and in the end, they got us tax payers to bail them out with probably $4 trillion dollars.

These idiots are crying about $30K to GM or $750 billion to the bankers and they ignore the $2 trillion I showed them the other day. They don't want to tea bag the bankers who own this country, just Obama. I think he's handsome too.

 

[Navy1960]

The fact is Barb, Govt. no longer becomes limited when the power to choose is given to it willingly. As I've said many times here this is a COST issue where healthcare costs are out of control. If so regulate the costs. The facts are some people simply do not want to be told that they must have health insurance by the Federal Govt. You want to bring down costs. limit lawsuits on the health providers and bring down the insurance they are required to carry as a result and pass on to you. One more thing you can do, promote competetion and force interstate providers to provide low cost insurance across the board as a requirement of offering insurance state to state. This is not a difficult problem to solve. Limited Govt. means just that Barb, it means limited Govt. No matter how noble the cause or no matter how much you or I want a Federal Govt. to do something. The facts are the American people are better suited to provide for themselves win a properly regulated system. Take drug companies for example. and look at how long a patent is held on a drug, well as long as it is then there is no comepetetion on that drug and the cost is set by only one company. It would be at least in my mind an easy thing for the Govt. to simply say. well as a matter of course to approve a patent you will need to provide x percentage of this drug as a low cost alternative to those who cannot afford it. Thats regulating. We need not simply hand over a right to choose for our children and grandchildren that we enjoyed to a central Govt. when the problem is easily solved. with a little hard work.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Why would I give up what? $15,000 per year that I can't afford? You know, honestly, if the greedy insurance companies wouldn't have fucked me, I would be in full support of the current system. But the current system is not set up for the best interest of the people. It's set up for the insurance companies to make as much profit as possible with no regard to the health or well being of those it is supposed to protect.

If you stay in a private plan, it will be taxed. It will be more expensive. It may even disappear altogether.

If you have a public plan, it will be rationed.

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

You seem to be missing the point that I don't have an option of an affordable private plan. The insurance companies have seen to that when I moved from one state to another. So I really could give a fuck if private plans disappear since I can't get one anyway. The funny thing is that you can make one point after another against government healthcare, but if you were in my shoes, you'd be in favor of it. Either that or you'd be happy going without any insurance whatsoever.

You seem to be missing the point that affordable to you means somebody else will pay for it.

I would love to see most health insurance disappear and let providers vie for patients based on price for most no-catastrophic care. It's the only way costs will go down.

Government rationing healthcare is not cost containment.

 

[sealybobo]

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

That's being unfair to our President, since he has managed to accomplish:

* Nearly quadrupling the budget deficit
* Massive seizures of private property
* Granting unprecedented powers to unelected officials of the executive branch

You should give the guy a break, after all he hasn't been in office long enough to completely destroy the country yet.

Bush sure did dig him into a huge hole, huh?

What did Bush do with the surplus Clinton handed him?

How about Reagan? Didn't think so. Teabagger.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Um, bobo, government already runs the banks, auto industry,and defense.

So who except government is screwing you on those?

 

[sealybobo]

If you stay in a private plan, it will be taxed. It will be more expensive. It may even disappear altogether.

If you have a public plan, it will be rationed.

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

Government rationing healthcare is not cost containment.

But letting For Profits ration it is?

And I'd rather wait in a Canadian line for healthcare than be denied healthcare by a for profit.

And either way you're going to wait.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

That's being unfair to our President, since he has managed to accomplish:

* Nearly quadrupling the budget deficit
* Massive seizures of private property
* Granting unprecedented powers to unelected officials of the executive branch

You should give the guy a break, after all he hasn't been in office long enough to completely destroy the country yet.

Bush sure did dig him into a huge hole, huh?

What did Bush do with the surplus Clinton handed him?

How about Reagan? Didn't think so. Teabagger.

That again? What has Obama done to change anything? Unemployment is already higher than he projected it, based on the results of his stimulus.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

That's being unfair to our President, since he has managed to accomplish:

* Nearly quadrupling the budget deficit
* Massive seizures of private property
* Granting unprecedented powers to unelected officials of the executive branch

You should give the guy a break, after all he hasn't been in office long enough to completely destroy the country yet.

Bush sure did dig him into a huge hole, huh?

What did Bush do with the surplus Clinton handed him?

How about Reagan? Didn't think so. Teabagger.

Yeah I guess because previous Presidents were fuck ups makes it ok that the current one is too.

Welcome to Fantasy Island ....

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Government rationing healthcare is not cost containment.

But letting For Profits ration it is?

And I'd rather wait in a Canadian line for healthcare than be denied healthcare by a for profit.

And either way you're going to wait.

You can buy as much healthcare you want in a free country and get it anywhere and as soon as you want.

That's not the way government run healthcare works.

 

[sealybobo]

Um, bobo, government already runs the banks, auto industry,and defense.

So who except government is screwing you on those?

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

And soon GM will be back in good hands and did you hear banks are paying back their loans with interest?

They don't want to be in Obama's hands.

Bush? Hell, they would have stayed in his hands all 8 years. Bush would have privatized all the profits and socialized all the losses.

The bankers today are paying back part of what they owe plus $2 million in interest. Bush wouldn't have charged them any interest. Nice guy he was.

And no oversite. Don't even ask who got the money or for it back when Bush was in office. You're a retard.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

In Barack Obama's world, "fair" and "equal" means government lowers the bar and everyone has less.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Um, bobo, government already runs the banks, auto industry,and defense.

So who except government is screwing you on those?

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

And soon GM will be back in good hands and did you hear banks are paying back their loans with interest?

They don't want to be in Obama's hands.

Bush? Hell, they would have stayed in his hands all 8 years. Bush would have privatized all the profits and socialized all the losses.

The bankers today are paying back part of what they owe plus $2 million in interest. Bush wouldn't have charged them any interest. Nice guy he was.

And no oversite. Don't even ask who got the money or for it back when Bush was in office. You're a retard.

Goverment is in charge of all those things. How have things changed in the last 5 months?

 

[sealybobo]

That's being unfair to our President, since he has managed to accomplish:

* Nearly quadrupling the budget deficit
* Massive seizures of private property
* Granting unprecedented powers to unelected officials of the executive branch

You should give the guy a break, after all he hasn't been in office long enough to completely destroy the country yet.

Bush sure did dig him into a huge hole, huh?

What did Bush do with the surplus Clinton handed him?

How about Reagan? Didn't think so. Teabagger.

Yeah I guess because previous Presidents were fuck ups makes it ok that the current one is too.

Welcome to Fantasy Island ....

That wasn't the point I was making. Bush stole the debt he created. Where's the money stupid? Switzerland? Caymens? And you defend it too??? Or if you aren't a republican, you need to talk to your right wing buddies, because they defend it. That's where Bush's deficit went. To his rich buddies.

Now obama's spending bill, putting people to work, updating buildings to save energy, extending unemployment benefits because people can't find work because YOUR FUCKING PARTY sent too many jobs overseas and let too many foreign imports in and it is killing middle class America.

So can Obama undo this? Do you even want him to Mr. Fucking Liberty? Makes me want to puke. You care more about capitalism than you do democracy. And you don't understand that the liberals created the fucking middle class. And your party is trying to kill us.

Are you rich? Then fuck off. Are you dumb? Then bugger off.

You libertards. You think you are so smart. You only got one thing right. The bankers need to go! The rest, you might as well be a right winger to me.

 

[sealybobo]

In Barack Obama's world, "fair" and "equal" means government lowers the bar and everyone has less.

Everyone had less the last 8 years.

 

[sealybobo]

Um, bobo, government already runs the banks, auto industry,and defense.

So who except government is screwing you on those?

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

And soon GM will be back in good hands and did you hear banks are paying back their loans with interest?

They don't want to be in Obama's hands.

Bush? Hell, they would have stayed in his hands all 8 years. Bush would have privatized all the profits and socialized all the losses.

The bankers today are paying back part of what they owe plus $2 million in interest. Bush wouldn't have charged them any interest. Nice guy he was.

And no oversite. Don't even ask who got the money or for it back when Bush was in office. You're a retard.

Goverment is in charge of all those things. How have things changed in the last 5 months?

Probably not much. We found out that the Federal Reserve gave the bankers $2 trillion last year, before Bush got on tv and said give them $750 billion or else, and don't ask any questions because we will give you no answers.

God knows how many trillions they have given away.

And at least with Obama, the government now owns GM until they pay back their loan. Sort of gives them an incentive to pay back their loans.

So you keep spinning it the way you like.