How Pharma and Insurance Intend to Kill the Public Option

[Navy1960]

Are you considering a government job? The federal government employs over 2,700,000 workers and hires hundreds of thousands each year to replace civil service workers that transfer to other federal government jobs, retire, or leave for other reasons. Average annual salary for full-time federal government jobs exceeds $67,000. The U.S. Government is the largest employer in the United States, hiring about 2.0 percent of the nation's work force. Federal government jobs can be found in every state and large metropolitan area, including overseas in over 200 countries. The average annual federal workers compensation, pay plus benefits, is $106,871 compared to just $53,288 for the private sector according to the United States Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Federal Jobs Net: Federal Government Jobs / Employment - All Government Jobs Including Post Office Jobs.

Tell me again, how little impact the Federal Govt. has on the economy when they are the largest employer in the United States. I find that very telling when and nations largest employer is also the same Govt. that runs it. In fact when almost every other sector is laying off people the Govt. is hiring at a record pace. I suppose if your predisposed to believe that Govt. is good and the more the better this is a good thing, which it seems a LOT of Americans are these days. I wonder though, when the nations largest private employer is Wal-Mart and all the Manufacturing base is gone because of the big bad evil corporations are now providing the same goods made in China and elsewhere that Americans buy in Wal-Mart how good that Govt. is going to be in lets say 20 years when the only career left for a young person is Govt. or managing the local taco bell.

 

[Oddball]

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

Care to show your math on that one??

The military-industrial complex all by itself blows by that number the first week of January.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

That wasn't the point I was making.

Oh you were actually trying to make a point? I thought you were just trying to deflect valid criticisms of the current president by pointing to the mistakes of past ones.... how silly of me ....

Bush stole the debt he created. Where's the money stupid? Switzerland? Caymens? And you defend it too???

Please point to where I defended anyone or anything ..... Oh, I forgot you have a severe reading disorder which causes you to just make shit up out thin air.

Or if you aren't a republican, you need to talk to your right wing buddies, because they defend it. That's where Bush's deficit went. To his rich buddies.

Er... I'm not a republican, I'm also not a right winger.... it's right there beside my name stupid "Independent Libertarian" ... look it up if you don't know what it means.

putting people to work,

Except the Economy continues to hemorrage private sector jobs = waste of tax payer money.

updating buildings to save energy,

LOL, this one is a joke, right ?

extending unemployment benefits because people can't find work because

Hey maybe if he stopped squeezing the productive portion of the economy (the private sector) to enlarge the unproductive portion of the economy (government), people could actually find jobs and wouldn't need unemployment benefits "extended" , crazy idea I know.

YOUR FUCKING PARTY sent too many jobs overseas and let too many foreign imports in and it is killing middle class America.

My "FUCKING PARTY" , there goes that reading disability acting up on you again, did you take your meds today?

So can Obama undo this? Do you even want him to Mr. Fucking Liberty?

Obama is incapable of undoing this, since it's statists that share his philosphy that got us into this mess in the first place.

You care more about capitalism than you do democracy.

Actually I care more about individual liberty, those two items are a means to end not the end itself.

And you don't understand that the liberals created the fucking middle class.

LOL, you're so confused, capitalism created the middle class, it's you mutant collectivists claiming to be "liberals" (you're not liberals BTW) that are destroying it.

And your party is trying to kill us.

Are you rich? Then fuck off. Are you dumb? Then bugger off.

You libertards. You think you are so smart. You only got one thing right. The bankers need to go! The rest, you might as well be a right winger to me.

Wow, getting a bit angry are we? maybe if you calm down you could figure how to present something resembling a rational point of view for a change.

 

[auditor0007]

If you stay in a private plan, it will be taxed. It will be more expensive. It may even disappear altogether.

If you have a public plan, it will be rationed.

What is Barack Obama's track record except accomplishing nothing or failing to accomplish what he said he would?

You seem to be missing the point that I don't have an option of an affordable private plan. The insurance companies have seen to that when I moved from one state to another. So I really could give a fuck if private plans disappear since I can't get one anyway. The funny thing is that you can make one point after another against government healthcare, but if you were in my shoes, you'd be in favor of it. Either that or you'd be happy going without any insurance whatsoever.

You seem to be missing the point that affordable to you means somebody else will pay for it.

I would love to see most health insurance disappear and let providers vie for patients based on price for most no-catastrophic care. It's the only way costs will go down.

Government rationing healthcare is not cost containment.

Affordable to me means someone else will pay for it? Where the fuck do you get off? I was paying for my own health insurance, and all the deductibles that went with it. I had no problem paying for reasonably priced insurance. By the fucking way, insurance is based on a pool, so when people do get sick, they don't lose everything they have. Insurance is meant to spread the risk, so when one get sick, the rest help foot the bill.

But these insurance companies don't want any risk. They just want to get you out of the system if you are At least that is the way it is supposed to work. But because I moved, I can't keep that old insurance policy. Instead, the same fucking company I was inusred with says I can have a guaranteed issue policy at three times the premium and five times the deductible.

I love all of you and your bright ideas as to how we can change all this for the better without any government involvement. The problem is that only one of your solutions are workable, but you won't even support that one. The only workable solution is to force the insurance companies to accept everyone. But in order to do that, health insurance would have to be mandatory. But the argument there is that we shouldn't force people to buy health insurance. So your one viable solution is out the window.

The arguments are laughable. The funniest thing of all is that every single one of you are counting on Medicare when you retire. Without it, most all of you would be screwed. Thinking that you could pay for private insurance through retirement is not even realistic. Run the numbers. Once you hit age 70, how much do you think the premiums would be? The truth is, the insurance companies wouldn't even offer such policies because they couldn't make the premiums high enough.

 

[sealybobo]

Are you considering a government job? The federal government employs over 2,700,000 workers and hires hundreds of thousands each year to replace civil service workers that transfer to other federal government jobs, retire, or leave for other reasons. Average annual salary for full-time federal government jobs exceeds $67,000. The U.S. Government is the largest employer in the United States, hiring about 2.0 percent of the nation's work force. Federal government jobs can be found in every state and large metropolitan area, including overseas in over 200 countries. The average annual federal workers compensation, pay plus benefits, is $106,871 compared to just $53,288 for the private sector according to the United States Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Federal Jobs Net: Federal Government Jobs / Employment - All Government Jobs Including Post Office Jobs.

Tell me again, how little impact the Federal Govt. has on the economy when they are the largest employer in the United States. I find that very telling when and nations largest employer is also the same Govt. that runs it. In fact when almost every other sector is laying off people the Govt. is hiring at a record pace. I suppose if your predisposed to believe that Govt. is good and the more the better this is a good thing, which it seems a LOT of Americans are these days. I wonder though, when the nations largest private employer is Wal-Mart and all the Manufacturing base is gone because of the big bad evil corporations are now providing the same goods made in China and elsewhere that Americans buy in Wal-Mart how good that Govt. is going to be in lets say 20 years when the only career left for a young person is Govt. or managing the local taco bell.

I bitch about government jobs all the time.

And the people who typically don't care about jobs in America, are the first people to cry that it'll cost jobs if we end a wasteful/unnecessary defense contract.

And my aunt works on the top floor of a 15 story building filled with administrative people who work for community mental health. It bugs me when she brags that she makes $70K and does nothing all day.

I don't like it either, but yes I do realize how many people are employed by the government.

Would you prefer we outsource our CIA and FBI to private companies???

PS. My VP brother admitted that when he worked for one of the big 3, yes, making cars was just an excuse to employ people. If you think about all the people who work for Ford or GM, how many of them are really necessary? But we want them to hire as many people as they can. And its better to pay them high wages, although you will agree, because your primary care is the stockholders. Mine is the employees.

 

[sealybobo]

That wasn't the point I was making.

Oh you were actually trying to make a point? I thought you were just trying to deflect valid criticisms of the current president by pointing to the mistakes of past ones.... how silly of me ....

Bush stole the debt he created. Where's the money stupid? Switzerland? Caymens? And you defend it too???

Please point to where I defended anyone or anything ..... Oh, I forgot you have a severe reading disorder which causes you to just make shit up out thin air.


Er... I'm not a republican, I'm also not a right winger.... it's right there beside my name stupid "Independent Libertarian" ... look it up if you don't know what it means.


Except the Economy continues to hemorrage private sector jobs = waste of tax payer money.


LOL, this one is a joke, right ?


Hey maybe if he stopped squeezing the productive portion of the economy (the private sector) to enlarge the unproductive portion of the economy (government), people could actually find jobs and wouldn't need unemployment benefits "extended" , crazy idea I know.


My "FUCKING PARTY" , there goes that reading disability acting up on you again, did you take your meds today?


Obama is incapable of undoing this, since it's statists that share his philosphy that got us into this mess in the first place.


Actually I care more about individual liberty, those two items are a means to end not the end itself.

And you don't understand that the liberals created the fucking middle class.

LOL, you're so confused, capitalism created the middle class, it's you mutant collectivists claiming to be "liberals" (you're not liberals BTW) that are destroying it.

And your party is trying to kill us.

Are you rich? Then fuck off. Are you dumb? Then bugger off.

You libertards. You think you are so smart. You only got one thing right. The bankers need to go! The rest, you might as well be a right winger to me.

Wow, getting a bit angry are we? maybe if you calm down you could figure how to present something resembling a rational point of view for a change.

Libertarians are crazy. They want the governments hands off EVERYTHING.

Thus why your party is as popular as its going to get. We all like one or two things about you and then we see the big picture and, no thanks.

You can barely capitolize off the last 8 years of horrible GOP rule.

Maybe you guys are good at governing but just bad at politics. That's the Dems problem too. The GOP are too good at politics, just bad at governing.

 

[sealybobo]

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

Care to show your math on that one??

The military-industrial complex all by itself blows by that number the first week of January.

Is that spending considered socialism?

 

[editec]

Barb asks the $64 trillion dollar question:

What part of "working against your own interests" don't you get?

They don't get any of it.

They see the interests of the international corporations (read massive accumlulations of capital they respresent) as the only American interest that counts.

Hence both parties encouraged free trade knowing full well that the flood of money flowing out of this econonomy would benefit those internation corporations and disadvantage the interests of the American working classes at the same time.

It wasn't personal it was just business.

They didn't care who it disadvantaged just so long as it worked to their advantage.

Their alliagance is to the world of capital, not to any land or to any people associated with any land, either

Such is the nature of American capitalists, and for all I know, most capitalists no matter from whence the hail.

They owe alligiance only to themselves.

The worship at the alter of Mammon, Ayn Rand is their profitess, and Libertarianism their current political dogma.

Remember the mantra of the Reagan period?

GREED IS GOOD
​

We have a huge percentage of our population who believe that.

They're here every damned day defending the destruction of this nation behind the smokescreen of whining about government.

Not just bad governance (which they often support) but ALL government.

They're looking forward to a Bladerunner kind of society.

One where governments are meaningless and corporations and cartels of same control the planet.







​

 

[Oddball]

Government runs something like 2/10th of 1% of our economy.

Care to show your math on that one??

The military-industrial complex all by itself blows by that number the first week of January.

Is that spending considered socialism?

Didn't ask that......I asked you to show your math.

It's understandable that you can't do it and need to deflect.

 

[Oddball]

Barb asks the $64 trillion dollar question:

What part of "working against your own interests" don't you get?

They don't get any of it.

They see the interests of the corporations as the only American interests that counts.

Hence both parties encouraged free trade knowing full well that the flood of money out of this econonomy would benefit those internation corporations and disadvantage the interests of the american working classes.

They didn't care.

they don't have to.

Their nation is the nation of capital, not land.

Such is the nature of capitalism.

It owes alligiance only to itself.

Oh, we get it alright.

Only socialists are in the proper position to tell everyone else what is "in our best interests".

And they wonder how it happens that they get called elitist assholes.

 

[Navy1960]

sealy, I believe that Govt. has a role and actually it's well defined. I honestly don't know how you read into outsourcing CIA and FBI services into that. No matter, What I do think that if the Federal Govt. went about the business of promoting a friendly environment for companies to do business rather than act as a self interested, often times hindering party to American business. Then you know states like MI. where you live would see a thriving auto industry, and jobs in sectors other than service would be very much available. Often times companies move away from the United States for their very survival. What people don't seem to understand at least some, is that the US is not the only marketplace for these companies goods and services. So even though these may be American companies they still are in the business to make a profit and in turn the more profitable they are the more people they can hire. It really is a simple formula. Where it goes wrong sealy is when Govt. comes in with a heavy hand and starts to over regulate and mandate as well as demand collective bargining to the point where the demands effect the companies very survival often time to the detriment of the employee's. I want my daughter to have EVERY opportunity I had in this country growing up sealy and honestly with a heavy handed over taxing over regulating Govt. doing things all in the name of common good and not allowing people to fail or succeed on their own merits will result in a place with less opportunities for all.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Libertarians are crazy.

Maybe so, but at least we don't wish to impose our insanity on everybody else unlike you collectivists that want use government force to take away everybody else's rights and property to serve your own wants.

They want the governments hands off EVERYTHING.

Not true, most libertarians want the government to serve the purpose it was created for, namely defending our rights and property from people like you.

Thus why your party is as popular as its going to get.

There you go again with "your party" , you really do have a reading disorder don't you? for the 100th time, I don't have a party... I don't even believe in political parties except the kind that involve lots of alcohol and strippers.

 

[editec]

Barb asks the $64 trillion dollar question:

What part of "working against your own interests" don't you get?

They don't get any of it.

They see the interests of the corporations as the only American interests that counts.

Hence both parties encouraged free trade knowing full well that the flood of money out of this econonomy would benefit those internation corporations and disadvantage the interests of the american working classes.

They didn't care.

they don't have to.

Their nation is the nation of capital, not land.

Such is the nature of capitalism.

It owes alligiance only to itself.

Oh, we get it alright.

Only socialists are in the proper position to tell everyone else what is "in our best interests".

And they wonder how it happens that they get called elitist assholes.

I'm not a socialist.

I'm a historian playing the futurist for your benefit, Dude.

I'm just informing you what your future will look like.

Nationalist gopvernments are dying.

Corporatism will dominate the planet by the end of the century.

Some few people (far less than the combined number of national leaders) will control the world.

They will be the social scientists who

"..are the proper position to tell everyone else what is "in our best interests".

One certainly doesn't need to be a socialist to see the writing on the walls, Dude.

 

[Oddball]

I'm not a socialist.

I'm a historian playing the futurist for your benefit, Dude.

I'm just informing you what your future will look like.

Nationalist gopvernments are dying.

Corporatism will dominate the planet by the end of the century.

Some few people (far less than the combined number of national leaders) will control the world.

They will be the social scientists who

"..are the proper position to tell everyone else what is "in our best interests".

One certainly doesn't need to be a socialist to see the writing on the walls, Dude.

You posted the sentiments of socialists....And tend to agree with them.

The slouch to global corporatism is being led by the biggest multi-national corporation in the world, known as "District of Columbia". You seem to want to further enable and empower that corporation.

My bias is toward the individual, rather than any one of the various favored elite collectivist authoritarian cliques.

 

[sealybobo]

Libertarians are crazy.

Maybe so, but at least we don't wish to impose our insanity on everybody else unlike you collectivists that want use government force to take away everybody else's rights and property to serve your own wants.

They want the governments hands off EVERYTHING.

Not true, most libertarians want the government to serve the purpose it was created for, namely defending our rights and property from people like you.

Thus why your party is as popular as its going to get.

There you go again with "your party" , you really do have a reading disorder don't you? for the 100th time, I don't have a party... I don't even believe in political parties except the kind that involve lots of alcohol and strippers.

We are all in this together.

No one wants your stuff. It is the bankers that imposed the income tax in 1913. Its the IRS and BOTH parties that are taking your shit, and I never get one dime.

Don't the bankers sort of belong to the GOP? Isn't the GOP the party of the rich?

And I just busted you. I know what you are now. You can't deny it. Here is the conversation we had:

Libertarians are crazy.
[/quote]
Maybe so, but at least we don't

WE? Who's we? Gotcha!!!!

 

[RodISHI]

"Don't the bankers sort of belong to the GOP? Isn't the GOP the party of the rich?"

Not exactly.. many of them have bought into both parties. You should check into that someday. They outright payoff certain reps with campaign donations, the dems on the other get their through project payollas... Not one any better than the other when it comes to selling the people out and into poverty for nothing.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

We are all in this together.

No "we" are not... I want nothing from you at all 'cept to be left alone to live my life as I see fit, I want nothing from government except for protection from people like you collectivists that are clearly in "this" for THEMSELVES. The problem you rabid collectivists are gonna eventually have is that most Americans at heart just want to be left alone to go about their lives just like I do and when they wake up and figure out how you and your ilk on the right and the left have been screwing them over all these years, they're gonna be pissed.

WE? Who's we? Gotcha!!!!

Libertarians, that's who "we" is, see even you don't understand the stupid bullshit you post, or are you so clueless that you don't realize the Libertarian PARTY is not synonymous with libertarians?

 

[sealybobo]

"Don't the bankers sort of belong to the GOP? Isn't the GOP the party of the rich?"

Not exactly.. many of them have bought into both parties. You should check into that someday. They outright payoff certain reps with campaign donations, the dems on the other get their through project payollas... Not one any better than the other when it comes to selling the people out and into poverty for nothing.

I understand what you are saying. Now do you understand why the Democratic party betters serves the people than the Republicans?

Its because we call and tell our Democratic leaders to stop doing it. And sometimes we get our way. For example, Dodd giving the AIG exec's their bonus'.

But you never call the GOP and tell them to stop helping corporations over people.

What you do is stand there with your mouth open waiting for trickle down to come your way.

PS. Of course the rich bankers are the top 1% income earners in this country and that is the GOP's base, so it makes you seem dumb to suggest that there is no difference between dems and reps. Yes they both take money from them. And if that's all you know about politics, then of course you would think that makes them even, but I know more than just the fact that they both take from the bank lobby, so I know either you are dumb or being deceptive.

 

[sealybobo]

We are all in this together.

No "we" are not... I want nothing from you at all 'cept to be left alone to live my life as I see fit, I want nothing from government except for protection from people like you collectivists that are clearly in "this" for THEMSELVES. The problem you rabid collectivists are gonna eventually have is that most Americans at heart just want to be left alone to go about their lives just like I do and when they wake up and figure out how you and your ilk on the right and the left have been screwing them over all these years, they're gonna be pissed.

WE? Who's we? Gotcha!!!!

Libertarians, that's who "we" is, see even you don't understand the stupid bullshit you post, or are you so clueless that you don't realize the Libertarian PARTY is not synonymous with libertarians?

Well protection from me is going to cost you buddy.

And you say you want nothing, but then an emergency may happen and we will bail you out. Or if you have a heart attack, we'll send the ambulance for you whether you want it or not. You are not an island. If you want to be by yourself, then move to the wilderness.

But you drive down our roads, got educated in our schools, use are airwaves to make telephone calls, etc.

Newt doesn't want to be a citizen of the world and you don't want to be a citizen of the UNITED states of America.

Do you even want your state to be part of the union? Why? I say you'd come crawling back in 20 days.

People like you don't realize how much help they got to be where they are today.

And MOST Americans want and deserve much more than to be JUST LEFT ALONE. You are a fringe sub culture in America. You are not the mainstream. Get used to it.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

People like you don't realize how much help they got to be where they are today.

Nope. Wrong. The country is better than any other precisely because its citizens have not been sitting on their asses waiting for government to fix things for them.