How many people here belive in prophetic visions

[Truthspeaker]

How can you call a Guy who confesses Jesus as the Christ, prophesies accurately and was killed for both reasons a false prophet?


I know it's long but did you actually read the account of Joseph on testing prophecies and visions whether they are of God or not? What part of his statements do you disagree with?

 

[RodISHI]

Here is a shorter bit to remember TS.

1 John Chapter 4:1-8

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Great quote, but the Joseph Smith account helps show more ways that you can try the spirits.

Actually I do not agree with you there TS. I cannot see how anyone knows the hair color of angels in your post there TS. That's where the whole post got trashed for me to even consider. From all accounts I have read they were nothing more than witch hunts. Which also goes on today. Good try though.

 

[RodISHI]

John Chapter 1 gives the answer to that query TS. The Holy Spirit only stayed on One at all times ever.

When the Holy Spirit is not present, the rest is just men of flesh talking of their own accord. JS was not perfect in his ways. Nor have his followers been. Same goes for Mohammad or any others that came after Yahushua. That is for today or yesterday.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Moroni is a moron, and John Smith is a false prophet.

I'll take Padmasambhava and Hopi prophecies over Joseph Smith any time.

 

[ABikerSailor]

How can you call a Guy who confesses Jesus as the Christ, prophesies accurately and was killed for both reasons a false prophet?


I know it's long but did you actually read the account of Joseph on testing prophecies and visions whether they are of God or not? What part of his statements do you disagree with?

Just because some dude confesses Yeshua, does NOT mean that he is a true prophet. Remember, the Devil never lies to you, he just mixes up the words and then you hear only what YOU want to.

Kinda like Joseph Smith.

Accurate prophecies? Well.....as my family used to tell me, even a broken watch gets the time right twice a day. He probably just got lucky with SOME guesses, and then bullshitted his way through the rest.

Nope....you ain't gonna convince me that Mormonism is anything other than a cult like Scientology.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is a shorter bit to remember TS.

1 John Chapter 4:1-8

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Great quote, but the Joseph Smith account helps show more ways that you can try the spirits.

Actually I do not agree with you there TS. I cannot see how anyone knows the hair color of angels in your post there TS. That's where the whole post got trashed for me to even consider. From all accounts I have read they were nothing more than witch hunts. Which also goes on today. Good try though.

In order to believe Joseph's account I guess you do have believe he was a prophet. That is why he gives such detailed accounts is because he saw visions all the time. His qualifications for good visions were very rigid. And aside from the color of hair, what problem do you have with his discernments.

 

[RodISHI]

Great quote, but the Joseph Smith account helps show more ways that you can try the spirits.

Actually I do not agree with you there TS. I cannot see how anyone knows the hair color of angels in your post there TS. That's where the whole post got trashed for me to even consider. From all accounts I have read they were nothing more than witch hunts. Which also goes on today. Good try though.

In order to believe Joseph's account I guess you do have believe he was a prophet. That is why he gives such detailed accounts is because he saw visions all the time. His qualifications for good visions were very rigid. And aside from the color of hair, what problem do you have with his discernments.

Do your homework and then you should be able to answer that question for yourself.

 

[Arthur]

What visions do you believe in?

 

[Truthspeaker]

What visions do you believe in?

Who are you asking?

 

[Arthur]

Any one who is here, I suppose. I think of vision more like having a view of where you're headed, myself.

 

[RodISHI]

Any one who is here, I suppose. I think of vision more like having a view of where you're headed, myself.

I think that you have a clue on that idea. They can also be faith builders in your walk.

I also see it such as the Bible prophecy being for always, everyday, seasons and times.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Actually I do not agree with you there TS. I cannot see how anyone knows the hair color of angels in your post there TS. That's where the whole post got trashed for me to even consider. From all accounts I have read they were nothing more than witch hunts. Which also goes on today. Good try though.

In order to believe Joseph's account I guess you do have believe he was a prophet. That is why he gives such detailed accounts is because he saw visions all the time. His qualifications for good visions were very rigid. And aside from the color of hair, what problem do you have with his discernments.

Do your homework and then you should be able to answer that question for yourself.

It is not my homework to read your mind. What problem do you have with the Prophet Joseph Smith? If you believe the Bible then believe 18:22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Joseph's prophecies have either come true or are coming true. You simply can't denounce a man as a false prophet without knowing what he said and did.
here's a sample. Over 27 years in advance of the Civil War.

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301–302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.
1–4, War foretold between the Northern States and the Southern States; 5–8, Great calamities shall fall upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;
7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

If you think that any part of this prophecy is a fanciful guess then I am sorry to say, you must be in huge amounts of denial. Because no one is that stupid to think you can guess such detail.

Wanna try and disprove it? see the link below.


A War on the Civil War Prophecy - Literally fulfilled

 

[Truthspeaker]

Any one who is here, I suppose. I think of vision more like having a view of where you're headed, myself.

There are no rules as to what a vision has to be like, unless you want to determine if it is of God.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hey TS--

What if no one has a problem with Joseph Smith--other than not recognizing him as a prophet? He's certainly the founder of your faith, and he had a lot of 'far out' experiences, but for some people that's not enough to call him a prophet or call his musings a vision, that's all.

It doesn't matter if other people don't buy your faith, does it? Who it should and does matters to are Mormons.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Hey TS--

What if no one has a problem with Joseph Smith--other than not recognizing him as a prophet? He's certainly the founder of your faith, and he had a lot of 'far out' experiences, but for some people that's not enough to call him a prophet or call his musings a vision, that's all.

It doesn't matter if other people don't buy your faith, does it? Who it should and does matters to are Mormons.

Certainly, you are right. But if another Christian claims to set the qualifications for a prophet, and Joseph fits those qualifications, then that Christian is a hypocrite by denouncing Joseph, a hard core Christian, simply because "he's a false prophet" doesn't make any sense.

People need to make up their own mind as to what is a prophet of God and how does he get his authority to speak for God. This isn't at all about what organized religion we belong to. It is about what you the individual really believe.

 

[RodISHI]

In order to believe Joseph's account I guess you do have believe he was a prophet. That is why he gives such detailed accounts is because he saw visions all the time. His qualifications for good visions were very rigid. And aside from the color of hair, what problem do you have with his discernments.

Do your homework and then you should be able to answer that question for yourself.

It is not my homework to read your mind. What problem do you have with the Prophet Joseph Smith? If you believe the Bible then believe 18:22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Joseph's prophecies have either come true or are coming true. You simply can't denounce a man as a false prophet without knowing what he said and did.
here's a sample. Over 27 years in advance of the Civil War.

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301–302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.
1–4, War foretold between the Northern States and the Southern States; 5–8, Great calamities shall fall upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;
7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

If you think that any part of this prophecy is a fanciful guess then I am sorry to say, you must be in huge amounts of denial. Because no one is that stupid to think you can guess such detail.

Wanna try and disprove it? see the link below.


A War on the Civil War Prophecy - Literally fulfilled

You seem to wish to contend with me over your own precepts. I already told you when someone decided the color of the hair of angels that was enough for me. I have no desire to contend with you or waste my time doing so.

The Bible already set the criteria for the determination of who is or not a prophet. You wish to add to that to justify pushing your religion and attempting to say something to another I did not say.

Again, I have no interest at this time in reading any further about JS. I am not interested in playing witch hunt with you either.

You started a thread for battling or defending your religion. You should have the curteousy to keep it in that thread. If I get the notion to argue with you I'll head over to your thread.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hey TS--

What if no one has a problem with Joseph Smith--other than not recognizing him as a prophet? He's certainly the founder of your faith, and he had a lot of 'far out' experiences, but for some people that's not enough to call him a prophet or call his musings a vision, that's all.

It doesn't matter if other people don't buy your faith, does it? Who it should and does matters to are Mormons.

Certainly, you are right. But if another Christian claims to set the qualifications for a prophet, and Joseph fits those qualifications, then that Christian is a hypocrite by denouncing Joseph, a hard core Christian, simply because "he's a false prophet" doesn't make any sense.

People need to make up their own mind as to what is a prophet of God and how does he get his authority to speak for God. This isn't at all about what organized religion we belong to. It is about what you the individual really believe.

Is it wise to argue with other Christians? Mormons are Christians too?

Certainly, plenty of people disagree about what God is. And plenty of people disagree about whether Christ was God, God and Man, or just a man--a prophet.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yo, Bullshitter that calls himself TruthSpeaker............

Ya wanna know what the criteria is for a true prophet?

I'll give ya a hint........it's in the Old Testament, as well as the Torah. You know, that collection of old books that had LOTS of prophets?

As God's Chosen People, (who deserved it because of what their forefather Abraham did), I think they'd know best who is and isn't a prophet. I've also noticed that your cult kinda ends up stealing a lot of stuff from the Jews.

Kinda fucked up, don't ya think?

Now then......if you cherry pick what you want, and what you don't, you're not a true prophet.....you're just a poser. True prophets allow themselves to be seen warts and all, sins, as well as their redemption, because the most valuable people to God, are the ones that have gone too far in one direction or the other (Satan's sin was that he ended up going beyond the job assigned), and end up sinning. But, the thing that makes them so loved by God is that they figure out where they went wrong, ask for forgiveness, dig themselves out of the hole, and then end up teaching others how to do it if they end up in the same place. If you want to know what the name for a person is, who does that, it's called "Tzadik", which means righteous person.

So........because that douchebag that you call a prophet cherry picked, he's a poser.

Peel off the outer layer of self righteous bullshit, and you're gonna find out it's kinda like peeling a balloon.

There's nothing there.

Which, incidentally, is why I hold your religion in the same esteem that I hold others like

Scientology,
Islam,
and of course, Moronism.

Believe the lie if you wanna, but, I'm not buying.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Visionary experiences turn up in many religions. In some, it's considered 'no big deal'.

 

[Chris]

Dreams are the easiest way to access visionary info.

When you sleep, your subconscious becomes your conscious.