How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

[rdean]

Now you resort to repeating the same old fucking lying shit. Fuck off Loser.

Republicans want to change the constitution - Google Search

And for your information dumbass, no one wants to change the constitution more than Republicans.

We've changed the Constitution many times, there is a process called Amendment ratification for that. Dummycrats don't bother with that effort, they just have the SCOTUS "interpret" it into the Constitution and move on.

Don't tell me to fuck off when you asked me a question and I answered you. In 1860, you people would have been run out of this country if we didn't kill you first. You espouse the utter nonsense of Karl Marx and in 1860, no one in the North or South held those views.

Um...

The conservative Southerns were quite vocal in saying the Northerns were socialists and communists even before 1860....in the previous presidential election, they railed about it, and said a Republican being elected would result in a "carnival of blood."

You'll have to show me some historical documentation of this. (Socialist/Commie part)

As I said, virtually everyone in the country was conservative. There weren't any radical liberals. The closest thing to a "radical lib" you would have found would be the Quaker ministers who were preaching abolition. Isn't that ironic... the radical liberals were the bible thumpers!

Marxism didn't become widely debated as a political ideology until well after the Civil War. It was still in it's infancy at the time and would have been dismissed as kooky. No one could have been elected spouting that nonsense... hell, until Obama, no one WAS elected spouting it. Wilson was a liberal but not a Marxist. FDR was a liberal but not a Marxist. LBJ was a liberal but not a Marxist.

No. The South castigated the North for being socialistic, communist, and licentious.

OCT 1856, -- The New York Times, quoting a Richmond, VA paper, describing the Southern sentiments -- years before Lincoln took office, entitled:
LOOK THE FUTURE IN THE FACE

"Forewarned...Forearmed!" We see the numbers, the characters, the designs of our enemies/ Let us prepare to resist them and drive them back
....A common danger from without, and a common necessity (Slavery) within, will be sure to make the South a great, a united, a vigilant and a warlike people."
..

It goes on:",...the division is sure to take place...Socialism, communism, infidelity, licentiousness and agrarianism, now scarcely suppressed by union with the conservative South will burst forth in a carnival of blood..."

"The great object of the South in supporting Buchanan is to promote and extend the perpetuation of the "conservative institution of Slavery."

Bold Avowals--The Election of Buchanan to be a Stop Towards Disunion

A single editorial in a single newspaper is not an entire political party or the views of their candidate. This is one faction hurling rhetoric at another... that's not someone running for office on the platform of Socialism.

But things like this are used all the time to try and draw a false perception of the past. This is a militant liberal attempt to rewrite history and make Conservatives out to be the bad guys. Most intelligent people recognize it as propaganda. Kool-aid drinkers who want to believe in Liberal Utopia are easily fooled and misled.

And yet, that's more evidence than you have ever shown about anything.

 

[Pogo]

Was abolition a "liberal" idea? Perhaps... but Lincoln didn't run as an abolitionist and was perfectly content with leaving slavery where it already existed.

Well ---- nnnnno. Seven states seceded before he even took office, exactly because of their fear that he was going to wipe out slavery. Had that impression not been in the air, those secessions wouldn't have started in December of 1860.

Now... All men are created equal is certainly NOT a credo of modern liberals.

I said "Liberalist". Philosophies are not people, and no person is a pure representative of a single ideology. But the sentiment is the whole basis of Liberalism -- that power derives from the People, and not from an Aristocracy or a Church. Unfortunately it was undeveloped enough in the time this country was founded that it could see the discrepancy between commoners and "royalty", but not between commoners and slaves. That perspective was a continuous undercurrent that finally came to a head with Lincoln --- and the various secessions.

The new (6 year old) Republican Party comprised basically two pre-existing factions: the disintegrating Whig Party and the Abolition Movement (the Whigs disintegrating because they could not come to a unified agreement on slavery). Being the first President elected from that party (only the second one to run), Lincoln's election portended big changes, and everybody knew it.

Conservatives" at that time were Democrats.
Virtually EVERY politician of the time was Conservative. You couldn't get elected with far-out liberal left-wing views. The first true LIBERAL president was Woodrow Wilson...

Actually the first Liberal President would be.... George Washington. That's what the Founders were expressing --- Liberalism. That was their whole point.

 

[Political Junky]

switched.

They'll never accept it. I've posted those maps as have others. They choose to remain ignorant.

 

[Political Junky]

You got any more maps you wanna fucking post, moron?

Not only are you ignorant, you've altered the maps.

 

[regent]

Was abolition a "liberal" idea? Perhaps... but Lincoln didn't run as an abolitionist and was perfectly content with leaving slavery where it already existed.

Well ---- nnnnno. Seven states seceded before he even took office, exactly because of their fear that he was going to wipe out slavery. Had that impression not been in the air, those secessions wouldn't have started in December of 1860.

Now... All men are created equal is certainly NOT a credo of modern liberals.

I said "Liberalist". Philosophies are not people, and no person is a pure representative of a single ideology. But the sentiment is the whole basis of Liberalism -- that power derives from the People, and not from an Aristocracy or a Church. Unfortunately it was undeveloped enough in the time this country was founded that it could see the discrepancy between commoners and "royalty", but not between commoners and slaves. That perspective was a continuous undercurrent that finally came to a head with Lincoln --- and the various secessions.

The new (6 year old) Republican Party comprised basically two pre-existing factions: the disintegrating Whig Party and the Abolition Movement (the Whigs disintegrating because they could not come to a unified agreement on slavery). Being the first President elected from that party (only the second one to run), Lincoln's election portended big changes, and everybody knew it.

Conservatives" at that time were Democrats.
Virtually EVERY politician of the time was Conservative. You couldn't get elected with far-out liberal left-wing views. The first true LIBERAL president was Woodrow Wilson...

Actually the first Liberal President would be.... George Washington. That's what the Founders were expressing --- Liberalism. That was their whole point.

Perhaps General MacArthur got it right when he said:
"For the framers of the Constitution were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their time has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."
America is a liberal nation, too liberal for some and not liberal enough for others, but we began liberal and remain so.

 

[Pogo]

"I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years" said no Republican ever. That was LBJ

Link, Frank?



No..... didn't think so.

How come you keep posting a bogus quote expecting different results?

 

[Pogo]

You got any more maps you wanna fucking post, moron?

I must admit, I don't think I've ever heard cartography described in quite that tone of voice.

 

[Political Junky]

"I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years" said no Republican ever. That was LBJ

Link, Frank?



No..... didn't think so.

How come you keep posting a bogus quote expecting different results?

To rewrite history. I'm not sure Frank is smart enough to know the truth.

 

[Pogo]

"I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years" said no Republican ever. That was LBJ

Link, Frank?



No..... didn't think so.

How come you keep posting a bogus quote expecting different results?

To rewrite history. I'm not sure Frank is smart enough to know the truth.

I got Frank's quote right here, and he knows it:

LBJ "I'll have them ****** voting Republican for the next 200 years"

Farbicators always trip theyselves up.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

 

[Pogo]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Only one party today wants to use skin color to determine who gets jobs and an education.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

Yeah, you're right about that

 

[Pogo]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

Yeah, you're right about that

Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican Party" isn't related to either of the contemporary ones. The terms were recycled.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Red States (Repub strongholds) are comprised of dead beats. Fact.

They're the blackest states in the country. What are you saying? Black folks are dead beats?

 

[regent]

Only one party today wants to use skin color to determine who gets jobs and an education.

Yes one party for years used skin color and lack of a good education for years to deny decent jobs to some Americans, finally some of that had to be changed by laws. Schools in some, or many states, still do not offer the same educational opportunities to the poor as they do the wealthy.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

Yeah, you're right about that

Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican Party" isn't related to either of the contemporary ones. The terms were recycled.

But he's still considered to be the father of the Democratic Party by today's party.

 

[regent]

Jefferson our third president was the first liberal president. He replaced our second president, John Adams that served one term and that was the end of the first conservative party, the Federalists. John Quincy Adams our sixth president and son of John, ran as a National Republican, but was J.Q. a liberal or conservative?

 

[Pogo]

How did the party of Lincoln (GOP) end up being the Confederate Party

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

Yeah, you're right about that

Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican Party" isn't related to either of the contemporary ones. The terms were recycled.

But he's still considered to be the father of the Democratic Party by today's party.

That's bullshit propaganda. They're trying to make themselves older than they are, and probably more to the point trying to associate with Jefferson.

But they're not really related -- parties disintegrate (or at least, they used to) and the refugees of those parties may re-form with new coalitions, mixed with new blood, but that doesn't make them the same thing. If that were the case, the Republican Party could trace itself back to the Whigs, on the basis that they absorbed many (but not all) of that party.

The Democratic Party begins with Jackson. It's understandable that they'd rather be associated with Jefferson than Jackson as a starting point, but to try to extend it back to Jefferson is Revisionism.

Special Ed, on our own pages here, tries to do the same thing with the Republican Party, extending it in fact all the way to the same bogus origin point -- Jefferson. That's Revisionism too.

 

[Boss]

How did the party of Jefferson become America's Socialist Party?

Uh -- the party of Jefferson doesn't exist any more. Been gone about two centuries.

Yeah, you're right about that

Jefferson's "Democratic-Republican Party" isn't related to either of the contemporary ones. The terms were recycled.

But he's still considered to be the father of the Democratic Party by today's party.

That's bullshit propaganda. They're trying to make themselves older than they are, and probably more to the point trying to associate with Jefferson.

But they're not really related -- parties disintegrate (or at least, they used to) and the remnants of those parties may re-form with new coalitions but that doesn't make them the same thing. If that were the case, the Republican Party could trace itself back to the Whigs, on the basis that they absorbed many (but not all) of that party.

The Democratic Party begins with Jackson. To try to extend it back to Jefferson is Revisionism.

BUT... It's ALSO revisionist to try and apply today's modern conservative and liberal labels to parties of the past. What it amounts to is trying to grab some kind of glory from the greats in history for your own party politics. Times have changed dramatically, people are way different and our viewpoints are different as well. We don't live in 1860 or 1790... we don't live in 1948 or 1964.