Houston History 1970: Police killing of Carl Hampton, Black founder of People's Party

emilynghiem

Constitutionalist / Universalist
Jan 21, 2010
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National Freedmen's Town District
The Police Assassination of Carl Hampton

Found this online. A neighbor with a doctorate in African American History had presented a paper on this at a conference. I knew about the Joe Campos Torres case of police violence Murder of Joe Campos Torres - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia and the Camp Logan Riots in Freedmen's Town Houston riot of 1917 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia but this is the first I heard of this case.

========================================

"It all began on a hot and humid summer afternoon, July 17, 1970. Carl would be returning from a trip home back to the Headquarters of People's Party II (PPII). Upon arriving and stepping out of the car, he noticed two uniform patrolmen harassing a young brother who had been selling the "Black Panther Newspaper" on the street curb in front of the Headquarters. He approached the officer and inquired about the nature of the problem. Carl was wearing an unconcealed .45 automatic pistol strapped across his chest in a shoulder holster (legal at that time). The police officer, startled at seeing a young Black man openly wearing a pistol, immediately withdrew his attention from the initial cause of being there. He then confronted Carl and questioned him as to why he was wearing a gun. Carl responded by telling him he had a constitutional right to bear arms. Again shocked and infuriated by this reply, the officer began reaching for his gun. Seeing this, Carl instinctively drew his gun from his holster, beating the police to the draw. At that same moment, two members in the community center emerged with weapons to join in the confrontation. The driver of the patrol car quickly radioed for back up.


Realizing that it was a standoff and it would only be a matter of minutes before the area would be sealed off and police reinforcements arrive, Carl and the other members cautiously backed into the office to barricade themselves. Feeling somewhat fortified at the back of the office and looking out the windows, they could see increasing police presence, dressed in riot gear darting to and fro to position themselves behind cars and buildings. With tensions escalating, a commanding officer of the Houston Police Dept. entered the office doors in an unsuccessful attempt to negotiate for them to surrender. Rather than be taken to jail, Carl felt his chances would be better out on the street, having his lawyer negotiate terms for surrender. His reluctance to be arrested was due to the numerous cases of police brutality and murder of Blacks in the jails and on the street during that time. The negotiating officer quickly exited the doors after seeing no sign of compromise.


Meanwhile, a large crowd of people out on the streets who witnessed the incident began to congregate in front of the office. So enraged were they at the hostile police presence that they offered themselves as a shield between the PPII members and the trigger-happy police. In fact, the crowd was so confident and protective that they dared police to fire on PPII Headquarters. This being an unexpected situation and the police not knowing how to properly deal with it, decided to retreat from the area and develop a contingency plan. Thus followed a sense of victory in the peoples' ability to back down the Police Dept. By this time, most of Houston became aware of the standoff between PPII and the Houston Police Dept. because of news flashes. People from all over the city's Black communities poured into the 2800 block of Dowling Street to offer support. Many brothers, feeling a sense of pride and strength, brought weapons and enlisted themselves to do battle. There were also mothers and sisters who came with prepared food to offer the defiant soldiers. As days wore on, everyone had become fatigued, tense and weary waiting for the inevitable. Also waiting for and observing those conditions, the Houston Police Dept. and other collaborating intelligence agencies made a decision to recapture the area by using a well planned, pre-calculated military maneuver to assassinate Carl.


On day ten, Sunday July 26, several intelligence officers armed with high-powered telescopic rifles secretly gained access to the roof of St. Johns Baptist Church. It was the tallest building in the same block as the Headquarters and would provide the tactical advantage to hold off any return fire and to execute the assassination. As nightfall approached, Carl was speaking to a crowd of about 100 people at a spontaneous rally in front of the office. The rally was called to raise bail money for two brothers who were arrested earlier. A car speeding by with two women in it shouted out that white men were shooting from the roof of the church. Carl quickly dismissed the crowd out of concern for their safety. He asked Roy Bartee Haile, leader of John Brown Revolutionary League (JBRL) if any of his members were on top of the church. JBRL was a white revolutionary organization that was a part of the "Rainbow Coalition"[2] that Carl successfully organized. Shortly after hearing about the standoff, armed members of JBRL also came out to show support. Upon finding out that it was not JBRL people, Carl valiantly picked up his M-1 carbine rifle and proceeded to investigate. Several people accompanied him. As he attempted to cross the street to get a better look, Howard Dupree, a white news reporter for Radio Station "KULF" who was also on the church roof, pointed him out to the snipers. Dupree was granted an interview by Carl a day or two earlier, thereby making him an accomplice in the assassination because of his ability to positively identify him. The conspirators, using night vision scopes, shot Carl several times in the stomach and chest with illegal hollow point dum-dum bullets. As Carl's body lie helplessly bleeding in the middle of the street, a very courageous sister darted through the rain of bullets to retrieve him. She dragged Carl to her car and rushed him to Ben Taub General Hospital in a futile attempt to save his life. It was there in the emergency room that he died. Several hundred riot-gear equipped police sealed off a 10 square block radius and swept through the area. Throughout the night and into the dawn, over sixty people were arrested and detained for questioning.


Out of this tragic situation was formed a "Black Coalition." It consisted of mainstream Black organizations responding to the reign of terror inflicted on black people by the Houston Police Dept. The coalition urged a boycott of businesses downtown. The boycott failed due to the impotent and unsustained efforts of its organizers. By making the Supreme Sacrifice and Surrendering his life to the Revolution, Carl became a martyr for our inevitable liberation.


Carl lives!!!


Long Live the Revolutionary Spirit of Carl Hampton!!!


ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
-- Charles (BOKO) Freemen"
 
The Police Assassination of Carl Hampton

Found this online. A neighbor with a doctorate in African American History had presented a paper on this at a conference. I knew about the Joe Campos Torres case of police violence Murder of Joe Campos Torres - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia and the Camp Logan Riots in Freedmen's Town Houston riot of 1917 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia but this is the first I heard of this case.

========================================

"It all began on a hot and humid summer afternoon, July 17, 1970. Carl would be returning from a trip home back to the Headquarters of People's Party II (PPII). Upon arriving and stepping out of the car, he noticed two uniform patrolmen harassing a young brother who had been selling the "Black Panther Newspaper" on the street curb in front of the Headquarters. He approached the officer and inquired about the nature of the problem. Carl was wearing an unconcealed .45 automatic pistol strapped across his chest in a shoulder holster (legal at that time). The police officer, startled at seeing a young Black man openly wearing a pistol, immediately withdrew his attention from the initial cause of being there. He then confronted Carl and questioned him as to why he was wearing a gun. Carl responded by telling him he had a constitutional right to bear arms. Again shocked and infuriated by this reply, the officer began reaching for his gun. Seeing this, Carl instinctively drew his gun from his holster, beating the police to the draw. At that same moment, two members in the community center emerged with weapons to join in the confrontation. The driver of the patrol car quickly radioed for back up.


Realizing that it was a standoff and it would only be a matter of minutes before the area would be sealed off and police reinforcements arrive, Carl and the other members cautiously backed into the office to barricade themselves. Feeling somewhat fortified at the back of the office and looking out the windows, they could see increasing police presence, dressed in riot gear darting to and fro to position themselves behind cars and buildings. With tensions escalating, a commanding officer of the Houston Police Dept. entered the office doors in an unsuccessful attempt to negotiate for them to surrender. Rather than be taken to jail, Carl felt his chances would be better out on the street, having his lawyer negotiate terms for surrender. His reluctance to be arrested was due to the numerous cases of police brutality and murder of Blacks in the jails and on the street during that time. The negotiating officer quickly exited the doors after seeing no sign of compromise.


Meanwhile, a large crowd of people out on the streets who witnessed the incident began to congregate in front of the office. So enraged were they at the hostile police presence that they offered themselves as a shield between the PPII members and the trigger-happy police. In fact, the crowd was so confident and protective that they dared police to fire on PPII Headquarters. This being an unexpected situation and the police not knowing how to properly deal with it, decided to retreat from the area and develop a contingency plan. Thus followed a sense of victory in the peoples' ability to back down the Police Dept. By this time, most of Houston became aware of the standoff between PPII and the Houston Police Dept. because of news flashes. People from all over the city's Black communities poured into the 2800 block of Dowling Street to offer support. Many brothers, feeling a sense of pride and strength, brought weapons and enlisted themselves to do battle. There were also mothers and sisters who came with prepared food to offer the defiant soldiers. As days wore on, everyone had become fatigued, tense and weary waiting for the inevitable. Also waiting for and observing those conditions, the Houston Police Dept. and other collaborating intelligence agencies made a decision to recapture the area by using a well planned, pre-calculated military maneuver to assassinate Carl.


On day ten, Sunday July 26, several intelligence officers armed with high-powered telescopic rifles secretly gained access to the roof of St. Johns Baptist Church. It was the tallest building in the same block as the Headquarters and would provide the tactical advantage to hold off any return fire and to execute the assassination. As nightfall approached, Carl was speaking to a crowd of about 100 people at a spontaneous rally in front of the office. The rally was called to raise bail money for two brothers who were arrested earlier. A car speeding by with two women in it shouted out that white men were shooting from the roof of the church. Carl quickly dismissed the crowd out of concern for their safety. He asked Roy Bartee Haile, leader of John Brown Revolutionary League (JBRL) if any of his members were on top of the church. JBRL was a white revolutionary organization that was a part of the "Rainbow Coalition"[2] that Carl successfully organized. Shortly after hearing about the standoff, armed members of JBRL also came out to show support. Upon finding out that it was not JBRL people, Carl valiantly picked up his M-1 carbine rifle and proceeded to investigate. Several people accompanied him. As he attempted to cross the street to get a better look, Howard Dupree, a white news reporter for Radio Station "KULF" who was also on the church roof, pointed him out to the snipers. Dupree was granted an interview by Carl a day or two earlier, thereby making him an accomplice in the assassination because of his ability to positively identify him. The conspirators, using night vision scopes, shot Carl several times in the stomach and chest with illegal hollow point dum-dum bullets. As Carl's body lie helplessly bleeding in the middle of the street, a very courageous sister darted through the rain of bullets to retrieve him. She dragged Carl to her car and rushed him to Ben Taub General Hospital in a futile attempt to save his life. It was there in the emergency room that he died. Several hundred riot-gear equipped police sealed off a 10 square block radius and swept through the area. Throughout the night and into the dawn, over sixty people were arrested and detained for questioning.


Out of this tragic situation was formed a "Black Coalition." It consisted of mainstream Black organizations responding to the reign of terror inflicted on black people by the Houston Police Dept. The coalition urged a boycott of businesses downtown. The boycott failed due to the impotent and unsustained efforts of its organizers. By making the Supreme Sacrifice and Surrendering his life to the Revolution, Carl became a martyr for our inevitable liberation.


Carl lives!!!


Long Live the Revolutionary Spirit of Carl Hampton!!!


ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
-- Charles (BOKO) Freemen"

Riveting story. Thank you for posting it.

We think of our Überpolice militarization as a contemporary disease, but this is 45 years ago.
 
25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 
Last edited:
25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOVE Bombing?



 
Last edited:
The Police Assassination of Carl Hampton

Found this online. A neighbor with a doctorate in African American History had presented a paper on this at a conference. I knew about the Joe Campos Torres case of police violence Murder of Joe Campos Torres - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia and the Camp Logan Riots in Freedmen's Town Houston riot of 1917 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia but this is the first I heard of this case.

========================================

"It all began on a hot and humid summer afternoon, July 17, 1970. Carl would be returning from a trip home back to the Headquarters of People's Party II (PPII). Upon arriving and stepping out of the car, he noticed two uniform patrolmen harassing a young brother who had been selling the "Black Panther Newspaper" on the street curb in front of the Headquarters. He approached the officer and inquired about the nature of the problem. Carl was wearing an unconcealed .45 automatic pistol strapped across his chest in a shoulder holster (legal at that time). The police officer, startled at seeing a young Black man openly wearing a pistol, immediately withdrew his attention from the initial cause of being there. He then confronted Carl and questioned him as to why he was wearing a gun. Carl responded by telling him he had a constitutional right to bear arms. Again shocked and infuriated by this reply, the officer began reaching for his gun. Seeing this, Carl instinctively drew his gun from his holster, beating the police to the draw. At that same moment, two members in the community center emerged with weapons to join in the confrontation. The driver of the patrol car quickly radioed for back up.


Realizing that it was a standoff and it would only be a matter of minutes before the area would be sealed off and police reinforcements arrive, Carl and the other members cautiously backed into the office to barricade themselves. Feeling somewhat fortified at the back of the office and looking out the windows, they could see increasing police presence, dressed in riot gear darting to and fro to position themselves behind cars and buildings. With tensions escalating, a commanding officer of the Houston Police Dept. entered the office doors in an unsuccessful attempt to negotiate for them to surrender. Rather than be taken to jail, Carl felt his chances would be better out on the street, having his lawyer negotiate terms for surrender. His reluctance to be arrested was due to the numerous cases of police brutality and murder of Blacks in the jails and on the street during that time. The negotiating officer quickly exited the doors after seeing no sign of compromise.


Meanwhile, a large crowd of people out on the streets who witnessed the incident began to congregate in front of the office. So enraged were they at the hostile police presence that they offered themselves as a shield between the PPII members and the trigger-happy police. In fact, the crowd was so confident and protective that they dared police to fire on PPII Headquarters. This being an unexpected situation and the police not knowing how to properly deal with it, decided to retreat from the area and develop a contingency plan. Thus followed a sense of victory in the peoples' ability to back down the Police Dept. By this time, most of Houston became aware of the standoff between PPII and the Houston Police Dept. because of news flashes. People from all over the city's Black communities poured into the 2800 block of Dowling Street to offer support. Many brothers, feeling a sense of pride and strength, brought weapons and enlisted themselves to do battle. There were also mothers and sisters who came with prepared food to offer the defiant soldiers. As days wore on, everyone had become fatigued, tense and weary waiting for the inevitable. Also waiting for and observing those conditions, the Houston Police Dept. and other collaborating intelligence agencies made a decision to recapture the area by using a well planned, pre-calculated military maneuver to assassinate Carl.


On day ten, Sunday July 26, several intelligence officers armed with high-powered telescopic rifles secretly gained access to the roof of St. Johns Baptist Church. It was the tallest building in the same block as the Headquarters and would provide the tactical advantage to hold off any return fire and to execute the assassination. As nightfall approached, Carl was speaking to a crowd of about 100 people at a spontaneous rally in front of the office. The rally was called to raise bail money for two brothers who were arrested earlier. A car speeding by with two women in it shouted out that white men were shooting from the roof of the church. Carl quickly dismissed the crowd out of concern for their safety. He asked Roy Bartee Haile, leader of John Brown Revolutionary League (JBRL) if any of his members were on top of the church. JBRL was a white revolutionary organization that was a part of the "Rainbow Coalition"[2] that Carl successfully organized. Shortly after hearing about the standoff, armed members of JBRL also came out to show support. Upon finding out that it was not JBRL people, Carl valiantly picked up his M-1 carbine rifle and proceeded to investigate. Several people accompanied him. As he attempted to cross the street to get a better look, Howard Dupree, a white news reporter for Radio Station "KULF" who was also on the church roof, pointed him out to the snipers. Dupree was granted an interview by Carl a day or two earlier, thereby making him an accomplice in the assassination because of his ability to positively identify him. The conspirators, using night vision scopes, shot Carl several times in the stomach and chest with illegal hollow point dum-dum bullets. As Carl's body lie helplessly bleeding in the middle of the street, a very courageous sister darted through the rain of bullets to retrieve him. She dragged Carl to her car and rushed him to Ben Taub General Hospital in a futile attempt to save his life. It was there in the emergency room that he died. Several hundred riot-gear equipped police sealed off a 10 square block radius and swept through the area. Throughout the night and into the dawn, over sixty people were arrested and detained for questioning.


Out of this tragic situation was formed a "Black Coalition." It consisted of mainstream Black organizations responding to the reign of terror inflicted on black people by the Houston Police Dept. The coalition urged a boycott of businesses downtown. The boycott failed due to the impotent and unsustained efforts of its organizers. By making the Supreme Sacrifice and Surrendering his life to the Revolution, Carl became a martyr for our inevitable liberation.


Carl lives!!!


Long Live the Revolutionary Spirit of Carl Hampton!!!


ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
-- Charles (BOKO) Freemen"

Meh..Carl was a trouble maker and his own neighbors wanted the police to get rid of him.

After police captured the storefront headquarters of the party, the black proprietor of the only business in the neighborhood to remain open, an eating place, gave free soft drinks to the white officers and newsmen. An unidentified neighborhood businessman, black , and perhaps the same man, told KXYZ: "The community wanted the police to come in. We've been just praying for the policemen to come in. I mean everybody who amounted to anything. But that thuggy bunch, they didn't want them to come in. So we wanted the city of Houston to know our feelings about the situation out here - that we wanted the police to come in ."

http://www.freedomarchives.org/Docu...PP_LocalChapters.texas.observer.8.21.1970.pdf
 
Hi Pogo and thanks for adding more background and context.

No, I did not mean to imply Mumia was directly involved with the incident he was reporting on, but I was commenting on the general left position of being antipolice because of these cases. Sorry tha. Wasn't clear and thanks again for elaborating. I prefer to go by people's personal experiences rather than the spins we see in the media. We are all going to have our spins or bias so I prefer to talk directly one on one with each source, where at least we can speak for ourselves. Thanks!

25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOV
[URL='http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/13/25_years_ago_philadelphia_police_bombs']25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now
Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOVE Bombing?




E Bombing?[/URL]



 
Hi Pogo and thanks for adding more background and context.

No, I did not mean to imply Mumia was directly involved with the incident he was reporting on, but I was commenting on the general left position of being antipolice because of these cases. Sorry tha. Wasn't clear and thanks again for elaborating. I prefer to go by people's personal experiences rather than the spins we see in the media. We are all going to have our spins or bias so I prefer to talk directly one on one with each source, where at least we can speak for ourselves. Thanks!

25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOV
25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOVE Bombing?




E Bombing?





Thanks.

I don't think opposition to overzealous police is a "left" thing though. It might be a Liberal thing, but that would include all of us who are not Authoritarians.

Take this related thread for example. Far as I can tell everybody from the spectrum is on the same side here, with the sole exception of the police apologists (the Authoritarians). And even they, at least the ones that participated, seem sympathetic. I don't see a "left/right" contrast in it.
 
Hi Pogo and thanks for adding more background and context.

No, I did not mean to imply Mumia was directly involved with the incident he was reporting on, but I was commenting on the general left position of being antipolice because of these cases. Sorry tha. Wasn't clear and thanks again for elaborating. I prefer to go by people's personal experiences rather than the spins we see in the media. We are all going to have our spins or bias so I prefer to talk directly one on one with each source, where at least we can speak for ourselves. Thanks!

25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOV
25 Years Ago Philadelphia Police Bombs MOVE Headquarters Killing 11 Destroying 65 Homes Democracy Now

Here's another one, that I only learned about through the KPFT radio crowd.
The real left. Who spoiled me for whatever the right and the media call being left.

I must be moderate left, because I don't follow the crowd on Mumia Abu Jamal.
He lost me on the name change, and I think they are insensitive to the widow, family,
police and citizens mourning the loss of the officer, regardless of corruption and politics
on both sides. They should act with humanity before politics, so this goes too far left for me
when they have no sympathy at all for officer Daniel Faulkner and other police.
===================
Democracy Now: "Today marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of a massive police operation in Philadelphia that culminated in the helicopter bombing of the headquarters of a radical group known as MOVE. The fire from the attack killed six adults and five children and destroyed sixty-five homes. Despite two grand jury investigations and a commission finding that top officials were grossly negligent, no one from city government was criminally charged. MOVE was a Philadelphia-based radical movement that was dedicated to black liberation and a back-to-nature lifestyle. It was founded by John Africa, and all its members took on the surname Africa. We hear from Mumia Abu-Jamal and speak with Ramona Africa, the only adult survivor of the bombing."

Mumia Abu-Jamal - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Emily you're confusing two unrelated stories here. The MOVE destruction (which was 30 years ago, not 25 --- May of 1985) had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal. He was already in jail long before that. He had reported on MOVE (for radio) years earlier -- that's the only connection. Abu-Jamal was apparently being interviewed for his knowledge on the MOVE group, in a story about MOVE, not about him.

I remember the MOVE bombing well -- I lived in the city at the time. ENTIRE BLOCKS were wiped out by the city action. As I recall the only repercussion to the responsible parties was the resignation of the police chief, but scores of families were put out of their homes (which were destroyed) on Osage Street.

This had nothing to do with Mumia Abu-Jamal though. It was an attack on MOVE, not unlike what we keep hearing about Waco, except there they were white.

The city hadn't planned to wipe out entire blocks, just entire blacks.

Why Have So Many People Never Heard Of the MOVE Bombing?




E Bombing?





Thanks.

I don't think opposition to overzealous police is a "left" thing though. It might be a Liberal thing, but that would include all of us who are not Authoritarians.

Take this related thread for example. Far as I can tell everybody from the spectrum is on the same side here, with the sole exception of the police apologists (the Authoritarians). And even they, at least the ones that participated, seem sympathetic. I don't see a "left/right" contrast in it.

Hi Pogo
A. there is a BIG difference between people acting as civil watchdogs against abuse oppression or corruption
by police and govt
VS
B. projected distrust assuming and blaming ALL police and govt as oppressive and wrong "until proven innocent"

Sonny Clark is one person who has been honest about having a bias about police abusing power. Too many others assume that without questioning or realizing they have this bias.

Same with the other side accused of being racists or bigots.
It is too easy to issue laws or judgments treating all poor, black, minority, immigrants as criminal and costing taxpayers
based on the violators who are abusing rights and freedoms in this country.
As it is to punish all law abiding citizens and businesses with higher taxes and loss of liberty
trying to police the abusers among the "rich". Why not go after the specific corporate abusers?

Just because there are criminal abusers among either the rich or the poor
does not mean ALL members of these classes deserve to lose our rights and liberties
with laws that treat us all as "guilty until proven innocent"

Nobody appreciates being punished, penalized or forced to comply with added fines costs or restrictions because of the unlawful or abusive actions of OTHERS that we did not commit ourselves.

If we are so against bigotry and racism against poor minorities,
why go commit similar wrongs by blaming all police or all wealthy or successful law abiding citizens. As much as we yell about wanting "due process", accusing the other side too often assumes guilt before innocence and is violating the same concept of "due process."

If it isn't a crime to be poor or unable to pay living costs,
why make it a crime to be wealthy or make enough money to pay our expenses.

Where is the due process to prove WHICH people commit crimes or not
before passing or enforcing laws affecting other people who didn't?
 
Hi Pogo
A. there is a BIG difference between people acting as civil watchdogs against abuse oppression or corruption
by police and govt
VS
B. projected distrust assuming and blaming ALL police and govt as oppressive and wrong "until proven innocent"

Sure there is. I didn't bring up the latter.
I never do blanket statements on any topic. It's a fallacy I abhor.
 
Hi Pogo Even when we don't mean to,
we can come across to others as if we are.
thus the issue of "due process" comes up ANYWAY
when we get accused of making blanket statements when that's not what we meant at all.
isn't it ironic.

I got blasted by at least one person as being a bigot for being open Constitutionally to distinguish
people who really do have genuine beliefs they are not supposed to support anything with homosexuality,
and not to criminalize or penalize them because of people really trying to ban gay marriage and
obstruct equal civil rights. It's not fair to abuse those abuses to penalize all other citizens with laws
against the beliefs of people who AREN'T trying to discriminate in unlawful ways.

As for being accused of being AGAINST Constitutional republican govt,
that wasn't my intent and goes against what I mean by resolving conflicts and working WITH the given system.

But the way I came across, sounded like I was OPPOSED absolutely.
So this is part of the process, too, to overcome the crossed Perceptions in addition to
what we really mean, and the terms or ways of Expressing what we mean. Some things
get lost between the Expressions and interpretations by others or Perceptions.
If we can resolve conflicts on these two levels, then maybe we can connect underneath where we actually agree we want truth and justice, we don't want abuses on any sides but want accountability and/or corrections wherever possible,
and don't want these conflicts to deprive us of equal protections of law. If we don't believe problems can be corrected, that also causes overprojection of blame instead of focusing on solutions we may not even consider viable choices!

Hi Pogo
A. there is a BIG difference between people acting as civil watchdogs against abuse oppression or corruption
by police and govt
VS
B. projected distrust assuming and blaming ALL police and govt as oppressive and wrong "until proven innocent"

Sure there is. I didn't bring up the latter.
I never do blanket statements on any topic. It's a fallacy I abhor.
 
Emily -
When you say "assuming and blaming ALL police and govt" (or "all" whatever) ---- that would be a blanket statement, if one did that.

I didn't post such a statement, didn't even make reference to one. So I don't follow why you're introducing it.
I'm lost.

:dunno:
 

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