Honest men and women can have honest differences of opinion...

[Yarddog]

Thanks for that heartfelt welcome. A growth filled community is one that seeks to continuously improve. Attributes would be order, harmony and respect.

You are at the WRONG place then. You have no idea what you are in for. Good luck to you!

Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell. Thanks.

Its just that not all people come here with the same purpose in mind, a lot are not serious and others just want
to unload on someone because of how their day went, or some are ego driven, of course then you do have the ones who like to share and receive information, but it could be quite a mix of all those and other factors. Kind of like mixing the wrong types of fish in your fish tank though.... they might not achieve harmony when some like to bite
the fins of the other ones though.

 

[ding]

Thanks for that heartfelt welcome. A growth filled community is one that seeks to continuously improve. Attributes would be order, harmony and respect.

You are at the WRONG place then. You have no idea what you are in for. Good luck to you!

Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell. Thanks.

Its just that not all people come here with the same purpose in mind, a lot are not serious and others just want
to unload on someone because of how their day went, or some are ego driven, of course then you do have the ones who like to share and receive information, but it could be quite a mix of all those and other factors. Kind of like mixing the wrong types of fish in your fish tank though.... they might not achieve harmony when some like to bite
the fins of the other ones though.

It is all part of the conflict and confusion process of arriving at objective truth. Diversity of thought is needed. The beauty of it is that error cannot stand. Eventually it will fail. It is just a question of time.

 

[Yarddog]

Thanks for that heartfelt welcome. A growth filled community is one that seeks to continuously improve. Attributes would be order, harmony and respect.

You are at the WRONG place then. You have no idea what you are in for. Good luck to you!

Maybe. Maybe not. Time will tell. Thanks.

Its just that not all people come here with the same purpose in mind, a lot are not serious and others just want
to unload on someone because of how their day went, or some are ego driven, of course then you do have the ones who like to share and receive information, but it could be quite a mix of all those and other factors. Kind of like mixing the wrong types of fish in your fish tank though.... they might not achieve harmony when some like to bite
the fins of the other ones though.

It is all part of the conflict and confusion process of arriving at objective truth. Diversity of thought is needed. The beauty of it is that error cannot stand. Eventually it will fail. It is just a question of time.

Well, welcome to the board!

 

[saveliberty]

My wife's background is deviant psychology, mine is history, sociology (specifically cultural anthropology) and psychology.
Normalization of deviance........ interesting concept........ You are an optimist.........

Are we going out three standard deviations?

That's not it either. That's statistics. Normalization of deviance is when one lowers a standard and then normalizes the deviance from the standard to the new lower standard, thus setting themselves up for predictable surprises.

You can statistically move the bar as well.

 

[saveliberty]

It is all part of the conflict and confusion process of arriving at objective truth. Diversity of thought is needed. The beauty of it is that error cannot stand. Eventually it will fail. It is just a question of time.

Unless extinction happens first.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

 

[Ringel05]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

I was referring to deviant psychology in relation to pathology.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

I was referring to deviant psychology in relation to pathology.

Yes, I know you were, but since the term in its broader sense involves behavior that might or might not be harmful, I find it important to distinguish between certain types of dysfunctional behavior and that which is merely outside the norm.

Take homosexuality, for instance. Decades ago, psychologists considered it as deviant, but saner heads have prevailed over the years as the only reason it was considered such had to do with normative morality based upon a preconception that had nothing to do with the harm principle. As such, it falls under the purview of mores rather than morals. One could just as easily state that wearing white pumps after labor day is deviant based upon nothing deeper than it being a shared custom.

What I am trying to get at is the distinction between deviant in your clinical sense and deviant it its broader sense.

 

[Ringel05]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

I was referring to deviant psychology in relation to pathology.

Yes, I know you were, but since the term in its broader sense involves behavior that might or might not be harmful, I find it important to distinguish between certain types of dysfunctional behavior and that which is merely outside the norm.

Take homosexuality, for instance. Decades ago, psychologists considered it as deviant, but saner heads have prevailed over the years as the only reason it was considered such had to do with normative morality based upon a preconception that had nothing to do with the harm principle. As such, it falls under the purview of mores rather than morals. One could just as easily state that wearing white pumps after labor day is deviant based upon nothing deeper than it being a shared custom.

What I am trying to get at is the distinction between deviant in your clinical sense and deviant it its broader sense.

That's all a given and yes I'm fully aware of the broader applications in many areas of study/endeavour. It was his phrase 'normalization of deviance' that first threw me. From a psychological perspective, basing the focus on known deviant pathology (sociopath/psychopath/pedophilia/etc), I wasn't sure that he didn't mean accepting those behaviors as normal or attempting to "fix" those behaviors.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

I was referring to deviant psychology in relation to pathology.

Yes, I know you were, but since the term in its broader sense involves behavior that might or might not be harmful, I find it important to distinguish between certain types of dysfunctional behavior and that which is merely outside the norm.

Take homosexuality, for instance. Decades ago, psychologists considered it as deviant, but saner heads have prevailed over the years as the only reason it was considered such had to do with normative morality based upon a preconception that had nothing to do with the harm principle. As such, it falls under the purview of mores rather than morals. One could just as easily state that wearing white pumps after labor day is deviant based upon nothing deeper than it being a shared custom.

What I am trying to get at is the distinction between deviant in your clinical sense and deviant it its broader sense.

That's all a given and yes I'm fully aware of the broader applications in many areas of study/endeavour. It was his phrase 'normalization of deviance' that first threw me. From a psychological perspective, basing the focus on known deviant pathology (sociopath/psychopath/pedophilia/etc), I wasn't sure that he didn't mean accepting those behaviors as normal or attempting to "fix" those behaviors.

It threw me, too, as it suggests to me that the behavior in question is not really deviant from a clinical perspective, but merely that which has been reexamined by nature of its causing no harm or involving an actual pathology.

 

[Unkotare]

Thanks for that heartfelt welcome. A growth filled community is one that seeks to continuously improve. Attributes would be order, harmony and respect.

Oh, a fantasy...... Got it.

No. It's not a fantasy. You have a family, right? You have friends too, right? Those are communities. You do it there, don't you? Why can't you do it every where else?

You need to visit the Flamer Zone. All KINDS of people are posting on these message boards and not all are very "healthy" if you know what I mean.

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

 

[aaronleland]

Welcome to USMB, I hope you enjoy yourself, I suggest staying away from the Flame Zone.

Question; Political alignment? Who are you voting for, if at all?

The Flame Zone is the only place on this forum where people of differing political views actually get along, and joke around with each other. Of course you have the occasional nasty feud, but most of us are friends down there.

 

[ding]

My wife's background is deviant psychology, mine is history, sociology (specifically cultural anthropology) and psychology.
Normalization of deviance........ interesting concept........ You are an optimist.........

Are we going out three standard deviations?

That's not it either. That's statistics. Normalization of deviance is when one lowers a standard and then normalizes the deviance from the standard to the new lower standard, thus setting themselves up for predictable surprises.

You can statistically move the bar as well.

Yeah, sure, but all that is saying is that one will accept the failures associated with accepting a lower standard. In other words, they are acceptable losses.

 

[ding]

Thanks for that heartfelt welcome. A growth filled community is one that seeks to continuously improve. Attributes would be order, harmony and respect.

Oh, a fantasy...... Got it.

No. It's not a fantasy. You have a family, right? You have friends too, right? Those are communities. You do it there, don't you? Why can't you do it every where else?

You need to visit the Flamer Zone. All KINDS of people are posting on these message boards and not all are very "healthy" if you know what I mean.

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

Not according to my beliefs.

 

[ding]

That's because I'm looking at the word deviance from a human studies (psychology) standpoint where deviance is a behavioral (and in many cases) genetic personality malformation.

.....or not a malformation at all, but merely the expression of an uncommon attribute. Heaven forbid we ever arrive at a time so totalitarian that a person cannot deviate from the norm.

We are at once predisposed towards a herd instinct and the expression of individuality, and it is the tension between the two that matters. At one extreme lies the sociopaths and at the other the cultists, neither of which are healthy.

I was referring to deviant psychology in relation to pathology.

Yes, I know you were, but since the term in its broader sense involves behavior that might or might not be harmful, I find it important to distinguish between certain types of dysfunctional behavior and that which is merely outside the norm.

Take homosexuality, for instance. Decades ago, psychologists considered it as deviant, but saner heads have prevailed over the years as the only reason it was considered such had to do with normative morality based upon a preconception that had nothing to do with the harm principle. As such, it falls under the purview of mores rather than morals. One could just as easily state that wearing white pumps after labor day is deviant based upon nothing deeper than it being a shared custom.

What I am trying to get at is the distinction between deviant in your clinical sense and deviant it its broader sense.

Deviance: the fact or state of departing from usual or accepted standards

 

[Unkotare]

Oh, a fantasy...... Got it.

No. It's not a fantasy. You have a family, right? You have friends too, right? Those are communities. You do it there, don't you? Why can't you do it every where else?

You need to visit the Flamer Zone. All KINDS of people are posting on these message boards and not all are very "healthy" if you know what I mean.

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

Not according to my beliefs.

Your beliefs can bleed just like anyone else's.

 

[ding]

No. It's not a fantasy. You have a family, right? You have friends too, right? Those are communities. You do it there, don't you? Why can't you do it every where else?

You need to visit the Flamer Zone. All KINDS of people are posting on these message boards and not all are very "healthy" if you know what I mean.

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

Not according to my beliefs.

Your beliefs can bleed just like anyone else's.

Everyone has got to die sooner or later. What's the big deal?

 

[Unkotare]

You need to visit the Flamer Zone. All KINDS of people are posting on these message boards and not all are very "healthy" if you know what I mean.

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

Not according to my beliefs.

Your beliefs can bleed just like anyone else's.

Everyone has got to die sooner or later. What's the big deal?

Whistling past the graveyard fools no one, kid.

 

[ding]

.... I can't be harmed by what others think, say or do. ....

Actually, you can.

Not according to my beliefs.

Your beliefs can bleed just like anyone else's.

Everyone has got to die sooner or later. What's the big deal?

Whistling past the graveyard fools no one, kid.

I'm not trying to fool anyone. I truly believe that only I can harm myself. I am more than the sum of my parts. Nothing you can do to me will diminish me whatsoever. What part of that do you not understand?

 

[emilynghiem]

Hey Everyone,

My name is ding and I believe that honest men and women can have honest differences of opinion without having to act like jerks to each other. I believe that growth filled communities should explore all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth.

Dear ding Not sure if honesty is the word to describe the people who can respect each other's beliefs and differences.
I find it is a factor of fear and unforgiveness being projected, where people with "scarcity mentality" resort to bullying by exclusion or coercion to defend themselves,
vs. faith that truth is the controlling force and exercise forgiveness and inclusion when dealing with people and different groups/beliefs

When people have faith that truth and justice prevail without needing to resort to force, bullying, abuse coercion oppression etc.
sure
that opens the door to people "feeling safe" to express themselves freely openly and honestly.

The link betwe en the two
is if people aren't fully aware of the fears and unforgiven issues behind their biases
then they project emotionally and don't include all others equally.

It's the fear and forgiveness factor that makes all the difference in the world.

If people are in denial, it's usually because they are afraid of someone or something
and not ready to face changing or confronting that issue.

You can be as honest as you can about this,
and if you are still not ready to forgive and receive change,
then it blocks and limits the interaction with others.

As long as you are forgiving and willing to work with others,
then even if you fall short in some areas, and aren't perfectly transparent open and honest,
you can still work with others, to the same extent they are willing to work with you,
as long as you both allow each other the same
room for error and benefit of the doubt.

Overall I would agree that intellectual honesty
and awareness/understanding
goes hand in hand with being able to forgive and include other people regardless of
differences and conflicting beliefs.

But I find it's the forgiveness factor vs the fear factor
that determines if people can interact inclusively and safely with each other.
Once the scarcity mentality, the competitive/combative defensiveness kicks in,
it's very hard to work through that and try to get to a safe place of mutual agreement and respect.
But that's part of the process also.

We all have to learn to navigate and manage this process
in order to rebuild working relationships, restore communities
and society, and create more effective sustainable solutions by collaborating
to capitalize on the best ideas, talents, models, and leaders from diverse backgrounds and sectors.

Whatever is standing in the way of that,
we need to work through anyway.
There are no shortcuts.
Nobody can do the work and fix our problems for us.
It will take all of us working together, delegating
different areas to different people and groups,
to solve all the world's problems with the given resources we have to work with.

Thanks for being here and sharing
and I hope you will see that your
participation and influence makes a difference.

Everyone here is a necessary piece of the puzzle
or else we wouldn't be here! Enjoy!