Homosexuality not a choice, It's caused by exposure to hormones in utero

[dmp]

If there's no evidence one way or the other, why don't we just agree to disagree and stop claiming there's 'gay gene' or gays are 'sick in the head', and never talk about this again until there's more info?

But there IS evidence the 'gene' does NOT exist - the mere fact that no biological study, repeatable, ever has shown such a gene to exist.

 

[OCA]

But there IS evidence the 'gene' does NOT exist - the mere fact that no biological study, repeatable, ever has shown such a gene to exist.

Yeppers d! How can you prove that something doesn't exist when it doesn't friggin exist in the first place?

 

[dmp]

Yeppers d! How can you prove that something doesn't exist when it doesn't friggin exist in the first place?

Correct - it's akin to me asking you to PROVE that double-headed purple whippits do NOT exist, living within the lava dome of Mt St. Helens.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

" Although genetics may not be the sole reason individuals are homosexuals, recent research has shown that sexual orientation certainly has biological links. Homosexuality has nothing to do with disturbed mentalities. Homosexuality has to do with brain anatomy and genetics. Homosexuals might even be gay before they are born. But even more simply, as Angelican Archbishop Benjamin Tutu of South Africa wrote, “if this sexual orientation were indeed a matter of personal choice, the homosexual persons must be the craziest coots around to choose a way of life that exposes them to so much hostility, discrimination, loss, and suffering.” Homosexuality is not a choice. It’s a way of life. "

http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/boardwalk/7151/biobasis.html

 

[OCA]

Come on give me some factual, irrefuteable info. Enough with the friggin opinion piece of which this was nothing more seeing as the evidence was flimsy at its strongest point. Lol this is a comedy!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Come on give me some factual, irrefuteable info. Enough with the friggin opinion piece of which this was nothing more seeing as the evidence was flimsy at its strongest point. Lol this is a comedy!

This region is also different in humans, but the research involving hormone levels has not been done on humans (for obvious reasons). However, research, upon death, has delved into the sexually dimorphic regions of the brain. In 1980, Roger Gorski found that the interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH), numbers 2 and 3 (there are four of these nuclei, were sexually dimorphic. The size differential between males and females was most apparent in INAH 3. In males, this nucleus can be from two to three times larger than it is in females. This difference spans all age groups, meaning that the differentiation must occur at some time before birth.

Then, in 1991, Simon LeVay set out to find if the sexual dimorphism in INAH2 and 3 could be correlated with sexual orientation. He hypothesized that the size of this region in the brain in homosexual males would be similar in size to that in heterosexual females, and that it would be larger in heterosexual males and lesbians. He dealt mainly with the INAH 3, as it is more significantly different between males and females. He found that male homosexuals had INAH 3's that were comparable in size to heterosexual females. He didn't study lesbians. With results stating that this region of the brain is different in homosexual and heterosexual men, and the knowledge that the size of this same region in rats is determined in utero and directly following birth, the evidence seems to support the theory that homosexuals are "born that way."

http://www.goshen.edu/bio/Biol410/SrSempapers01/christiana.html

 

[007]

This region is also different in humans, but the research involving hormone levels has not been done on humans (for obvious reasons). However, research, upon death, has delved into the sexually dimorphic regions of the brain. In 1980, Roger Gorski found that the interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH), numbers 2 and 3 (there are four of these nuclei, were sexually dimorphic. The size differential between males and females was most apparent in INAH 3. In males, this nucleus can be from two to three times larger than it is in females. This difference spans all age groups, meaning that the differentiation must occur at some time before birth.

Then, in 1991, Simon LeVay set out to find if the sexual dimorphism in INAH2 and 3 could be correlated with sexual orientation. He hypothesized that the size of this region in the brain in homosexual males would be similar in size to that in heterosexual females, and that it would be larger in heterosexual males and lesbians. He dealt mainly with the INAH 3, as it is more significantly different between males and females. He found that male homosexuals had INAH 3's that were comparable in size to heterosexual females. He didn't study lesbians. With results stating that this region of the brain is different in homosexual and heterosexual men, and the knowledge that the size of this same region in rats is determined in utero and directly following birth, the evidence seems to support the theory that homosexuals are "born that way."

http://www.goshen.edu/bio/Biol410/SrSempapers01/christiana.html

Blah blah blah... he said.... blah blah blah.... she said.... blah blah blah.... they concluded.... blah blah....

Just more and more HORSE SHIT!

For WHATEVER REASON, queers look at the SAME SEX, and have deviant perverted thoughts of having sex with them. At this point, THEY MAY EVEN KNOW THIS IS WRONG, but they go ahead and play them out anyway. Not only is this psychotic behavior in the sexual deviation sense, but they have turned their back on the fact that it is WRONG, and given in to the perverted urges instead of getting help. Queers in this aspect are WEAK.

You can't be cured if you don't first admit you have a problem.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Blah blah blah... he said.... blah blah blah.... she said.... blah blah blah.... they concluded.... blah blah....

Just more and more HORSE SHIT!

For WHATEVER REASON, queers look at the SAME SEX, and have deviant perverted thoughts of having sex with them. At this point, THEY MAY EVEN KNOW THIS IS WRONG, but they go ahead and play them out anyway. Not only is this psychotic behavior in the sexual deviation sense, but they have turned their back on the fact that it is WRONG, and given in to the perverted urges instead of getting help. Queers in this aspect are WEAK.

You can't be cured if you don't first admit you have a problem.

The point is this: If they are guy because how their brains are formed, it's not an evil choice, and i don't think alone can be considered a sin. Now, the high rates of promiscuity are another matter, but some heteros also act that way, rendering it not necessarily a gay issue. I also don't want anal sex taught as part of sex ed in schools either. I have my problems with gay activists.

 

[007]

The point is this: If they are guy because how their brains are formed, it's not an evil choice, and i don't think alone can be considered a sin.

You obviously are NOT educated on what the Bible says about homosexuality. It "is" a "sin", and God is real pissed off at anyone who practices' such deviant behavior. The Lord goes on to say how their "blood shall be upon them", and "they shall surely die", meaning queers will NOT enherit God's gift of enternal life in heaven. So, if you look at it in that sense, yes, it is "evil", because homosexuality can only be derived from the devil.

THAT is the point.

 

[Gem]

Pale Rider,

Do you follow the Bible exactly, word for word? After all, homosexuality is mentioned only two or three times in the Bible...any you feel that it is derived from the devil and that anyone who is homosexual is going to hell...

What about the other "rules" of the Bible:

Would you sell your daughter into slavery as is sanctioned in Exodus 21:7?

Have you ever had contact with a woman while she was having her period? You KNOW that it expressely forbidding (Lev 15:19-24). So do you simply ask your wife to stay at a hotel for a few days???

How do you reconcile the fact that the Constitution forbids slavery, but the Bible clearly states you may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, as long as they are purchased from neighboring nations??? (Lev 25:44)

You might keep holy the Sabbath...but don't you know anyone who doesn't? Do you kill them yourself, as the Bible says they should be put to death, or do you hire someone to do it for you??? (Exodus 35:2)


A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. You would obviously disagree, both are mentioned as things God forbids and considers a sin....would you settle this for us?

Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


_________________________________

So Pale....do you follow ALL the rules? Or do you just pick and choose? If you follow all the rules...how many people have you stoned? do you mean to tell me you have NEVER eated crab, shrimp, or lobster??? and its probably a good thing we are online...because if you have never had a haircut you probably look a fright.

While I respect your opinion that God thinks homosexuality is wrong...stating that the Bible believes it is a sin is a tricky argument to hold considering how much of the Bible we don't follow....I would imagine you do not run into Red Lobster's all over the US telling people they are going to Hell...

 

[Mr. P]

Pale Rider,

Do you follow the Bible exactly, word for word? After all, homosexuality is mentioned only two or three times in the Bible...any you feel that it is derived from the devil and that anyone who is homosexual is going to hell...

What about the other "rules" of the Bible:

Would you sell your daughter into slavery as is sanctioned in Exodus 21:7?

Have you ever had contact with a woman while she was having her period? You KNOW that it expressely forbidding (Lev 15:19-24). So do you simply ask your wife to stay at a hotel for a few days???

How do you reconcile the fact that the Constitution forbids slavery, but the Bible clearly states you may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, as long as they are purchased from neighboring nations??? (Lev 25:44)

You might keep holy the Sabbath...but don't you know anyone who doesn't? Do you kill them yourself, as the Bible says they should be put to death, or do you hire someone to do it for you??? (Exodus 35:2)


A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. You would obviously disagree, both are mentioned as things God forbids and considers a sin....would you settle this for us?

Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


_________________________________

So Pale....do you follow ALL the rules? Or do you just pick and choose? If you follow all the rules...how many people have you stoned? do you mean to tell me you have NEVER eated crab, shrimp, or lobster??? and its probably a good thing we are online...because if you have never had a haircut you probably look a fright.

While I respect your opinion that God thinks homosexuality is wrong...stating that the Bible believes it is a sin is a tricky argument to hold considering how much of the Bible we don't follow....I would imagine you do not run into Red Lobster's all over the US telling people they are going to Hell...

Excellent post Gem.

 

[007]

Pale Rider,

Do you follow the Bible exactly, word for word? After all, homosexuality is mentioned only two or three times in the Bible...any you feel that it is derived from the devil and that anyone who is homosexual is going to hell...

What about the other "rules" of the Bible:

Would you sell your daughter into slavery as is sanctioned in Exodus 21:7?

Have you ever had contact with a woman while she was having her period? You KNOW that it expressely forbidding (Lev 15:19-24). So do you simply ask your wife to stay at a hotel for a few days???

How do you reconcile the fact that the Constitution forbids slavery, but the Bible clearly states you may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, as long as they are purchased from neighboring nations??? (Lev 25:44)

You might keep holy the Sabbath...but don't you know anyone who doesn't? Do you kill them yourself, as the Bible says they should be put to death, or do you hire someone to do it for you??? (Exodus 35:2)


A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. You would obviously disagree, both are mentioned as things God forbids and considers a sin....would you settle this for us?

Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


_________________________________

So Pale....do you follow ALL the rules? Or do you just pick and choose? If you follow all the rules...how many people have you stoned? do you mean to tell me you have NEVER eated crab, shrimp, or lobster??? and its probably a good thing we are online...because if you have never had a haircut you probably look a fright.

While I respect your opinion that God thinks homosexuality is wrong...stating that the Bible believes it is a sin is a tricky argument to hold considering how much of the Bible we don't follow....I would imagine you do not run into Red Lobster's all over the US telling people they are going to Hell...

"YOU" were the one that appeared not to be in touch with what the Bible said. I mearly pointed out to you broadly what the Bible says about queers.

Now if you want to debate EVERYTHING ELSE that the Bible says... well that debate has been and can continue to go on literaly forever, and there's a "religon and ethics" thread for that. I personally don't want to have a pissing contest with you about it, since that's clearly what you'd like to have.

 

[MissileMan]

GayGene people are like those who believe in the Loch Ness Monster...dispite the lack of evidence, they hold on to their dreams. Frankly, unless something has been proven to exist, that thing does NOT, by default.

Apply that same argument to god!

 

[Gem]

Pale Rider,

I am not trying to have a pissing match. I am trying to determine how you make your selections about what to follow from the Bible.

You believe homosexuality is a sin, but not eating shellfish, talking to women who are having their periods, getting a haircut, etc. etc.

Along with homosexuality...these are just a few of the things that are verboten according to the Bible, Pale Rider....

Why do you choose one but not the other?

 

[007]

Pale Rider,

I am not trying to have a pissing match. I am trying to determine how you make your selections about what to follow from the Bible.

You believe homosexuality is a sin, but not eating shellfish, talking to women who are having their periods, getting a haircut, etc. etc.

Along with homosexuality...these are just a few of the things that are verboten according to the Bible, Pale Rider....

Why do you choose one but not the other?

I'll have you know gem, my feelings about homosexuality don't stem purely from the Bible. Being a heterosexual, "nature" directs my feelings. The Bible mearly points out the "immorality" of homosexuality, and how God feels about it. I'm a Christian, not that good of a one admittedly, but a Christian none the less. I believe in God and much of what the Bible says. I know there is clearly much of the Bible that can be picked apart to no end, as you are doing now. But it's abundantly clear how God feels about queers. So you're comparing it to a "hair cut" is absurd.

1. The Law of God Speaks Against it:

Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Deuteronomy 23:17, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel."

 

[Gem]

Pale Rider,

Please calm down, I am not trying to be antagonistic...I am trying to understand you.

You give me three passages regarding homosexuality...I could give you three about shellfish, slavery, etc....

Why believe one and not the other? If we are going to pick and choose, shouldn't we stick with the Big 10....and last I checked, the 10th Commandment wasn't "Don't be Gay"

 

[-Cp]

Pale Rider,

I am not trying to have a pissing match. I am trying to determine how you make your selections about what to follow from the Bible.

You believe homosexuality is a sin, but not eating shellfish, talking to women who are having their periods, getting a haircut, etc. etc.

Along with homosexuality...these are just a few of the things that are verboten according to the Bible, Pale Rider....

Why do you choose one but not the other?

You are obviously either a tard or ignorant of Christianity and the Bible or just being a pain in the ass...

Anyone who knows Christianity knows that Christians aren't bound by Old Testament Laws such as those you keep referencing.

That aside, the New Testament, which Christians live by as it's their montra for the grace by which their saved clearly points out that being a homo is a surefire way to not enter into heaven. That said, so is any other lifestyle or pattern of sin..

I think Christian's biggest problem w/ homo's, outside of it being a "bit creepy" is that the folks who claim to be such want to invoke special rights and privledges that aren't being afforded to other freaky groups like Polygimists or those into beastiality...

 

[Gem]

-Cp-

You are obviously a rude ignoramus, or unable to debate someone without first turning to insults.

Thanks for the insight regarding Old vs. New Testament...it would have been a good place to start the conversation, rather then where you started...

Since you only wish to discuss the New Testament...I would ask you why Christians in general do not show the same distain for the lifestyle of adulterers...which are not only listed in Leviticus, but have a WHOLE COMMANDMENT written about them.

Why are you not pushing for adultery to be illegal?? Or giving adulterers the same scrutiny you are giving homosexuals? Are you a fan of Ronald Reagan and John McCain? Would you condemn their second marriages because the Bible states that they are sinners who are still married to their first wives?

God OBVIOUSLY felt more stongly about adultery then he did about homosexuality...yet look what we are harping about...the statistics regarding married men and women cheating is on the rise...but you want to talk about less than 2% of the population...

What I'm getting at here, for all the people I've just managed to offend, is that the Bible (yes, EVEN the NEW TESTAMENT, CP!) contains numerous things that Christians choose to follow and numerous things that they choose to ignore for a myriad of reasons...

If you are going to site the Bible as your reason for being against homosexuality or against gay marriage...then you should expect people to wonder why you are only enforcing some of it...

 

[DKSuddeth]

can someone point out to me, in old or new testament, where God or Jesus(or any of his disciples) said 'Ye shall apoint this group of people to preside over the conduct of man so that all men are moral and just.'

 

[MissileMan]

-Cp-

You are obviously a rude ignoramus, or unable to debate someone without first turning to insults.

Thanks for the insight regarding Old vs. New Testament...it would have been a good place to start the conversation, rather then where you started...

Since you only wish to discuss the New Testament...I would ask you why Christians in general do not show the same distain for the lifestyle of adulterers...which are not only listed in Leviticus, but have a WHOLE COMMANDMENT written about them.

Why are you not pushing for adultery to be illegal?? Or giving adulterers the same scrutiny you are giving homosexuals? Are you a fan of Ronald Reagan and John McCain? Would you condemn their second marriages because the Bible states that they are sinners who are still married to their first wives?

God OBVIOUSLY felt more stongly about adultery then he did about homosexuality...yet look what we are harping about...the statistics regarding married men and women cheating is on the rise...but you want to talk about less than 2% of the population...

What I'm getting at here, for all the people I've just managed to offend, is that the Bible (yes, EVEN the NEW TESTAMENT, CP!) contains numerous things that Christians choose to follow and numerous things that they choose to ignore for a myriad of reasons...

If you are going to site the Bible as your reason for being against homosexuality or against gay marriage...then you should expect people to wonder why you are only enforcing some of it...

You forgot to argue the other side! :rotflmao: j/k