CDZ Homeless Problem Part II

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by jwoodie, May 8, 2019.

  1. jwoodie
    Offline

    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    11,904
    Thanks Received:
    1,803
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +7,045
    Most of us agree that homelessness is, in large part, due to substance abuse and mental illness. One problem we face in addressing these issues is that these people can't be forced to participate in treatment programs unless they are an immediate danger to themselves or others.

    Like it or not, the only way around this problem is to utilize the criminal justice system as a means for requiring participation in these programs, with the threat of incarceration for noncompliance.

    If anyone has an alternative solution to this problem (which hasn't already been tried) please share it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Billy_Kinetta
    Offline

    Billy_Kinetta Paladin of the Lost Hour Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    37,989
    Thanks Received:
    7,307
    Trophy Points:
    1,160
    Ratings:
    +47,057
    Go back to the old involuntary commitment system, get them off the streets.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. OldLady
    Offline

    OldLady Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    48,676
    Thanks Received:
    8,626
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +39,057
    Send 'em to the Poor House.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. candycorn
    Offline

    candycorn Alis volat propriis

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    54,333
    Thanks Received:
    6,185
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +23,068
    Creation of a middle ground is out of the question?
     
  5. Crixus
    Offline

    Crixus Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Messages:
    18,558
    Thanks Received:
    1,682
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    BFE Texas.
    Ratings:
    +11,184

    What does the middle ground look like?
     
  6. OldLady
    Offline

    OldLady Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    48,676
    Thanks Received:
    8,626
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +39,057
    Informative article on how we used to handle the problem of the poor.

    HISTORY
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  7. candycorn
    Offline

    candycorn Alis volat propriis

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    54,333
    Thanks Received:
    6,185
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +23,068
    What I would envision is a eye roll inducing bit of government double-speak but what it boils down to is….

    QUARRANTINE
    .

    I will point you to my earlier posts in Homeless I in the CDZ for background. Essentially it is this:
    You take those who are arrested for B-Misdemeanors (Criminal Trespass, Public Lewdness, Public Intoxication, minor drug charges, Public Disturbances, Obstructing Public Highways (panhandlers) etc.….) who have no verifiable home address and give the CRIJ system the option of placing them in quarantine which is the “middle ground” between full scale incarceration which usually means one county paying for it and a reservation setting that is set up to take these types of prisoners from a number of counties—about 10-30 counties depending on populations.

    Just an aside...Currently what happens quite often is that a person is arrested for Criminal Trespass or having a joint on them and 3 hours later is set free with a Personal Recognizance bond; an agreement to show up for their court date. Since the homeless have no calendar (much less concern)…they don’t show up and now have an FTA on their books. So when they have another arrest, the FTA hits and now there are two charges….which will get the PR bond again more than likely. Each “hit” to the system is a cost that we the taxpayers absorb.

    So the thought I have is that we find a middle ground that is less expensive so I propose a reservation system.

    The State sets it up; assigning counties to these regional reservations. They build it (spartan conditions to say the least) and have overall supervision. Each County provides the services… Some days Counties A, B and C will staff the health centers, mess hall, sanitation, and other facilities. Other days it’s Counties D, E, and F…etc…. Or one county can supply only Sanitation 7 days a week instead of sending nurses or human services folks. Security is provided by the State. There will be rules that are enforced but it will be mainly to keep the peace instead of punishment.

    By and large, the homeless will be in their element. They will be free to roam the reservation, sleep under the park benches in the common areas or in their assigned shelters, urinate on trees, or whatever else there is going on in homeless encampments. The bonus for most of us is that they will be located in the remote (probably near State Prisons) where there is an abundance of land to start with in many cases.

    Don’t get me wrong; the costs will be massive. Incarceration costs always are which is why the counties issue PR bonds like they are handing out candy on Halloween. One thing you will not have is the constant involvement of the DA’s office so there is some savings to be enjoyed. The costs you do incur are shared with a number of other counties thus relieving the cost burden, freeing up cells for actual criminals (not those who are merely exhibiting criminal behavior) and, getting the homeless away from the general population (no pun intended) where they are panhandling, exposing themselves, shitting on the sidewalk, spreading disease, and…being honest here…contributing to urban blight. The homeless are able to avail themselves of health resources, a safer environment, and perhaps learn to live in a community setting. But most will learn to game the system the way they game the system now.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  8. Crixus
    Offline

    Crixus Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Messages:
    18,558
    Thanks Received:
    1,682
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    BFE Texas.
    Ratings:
    +11,184

    You come from a good place with this, but you have to remember that these folks, the majority of them are perfectly fine living how they do. A good many folks who are homeless have heavy criminal records. Getting work is pretty hard for folks in that boat. So the middle ground may get the pan handlers off the corners, but in the end it’s just another facility put up for warehousing people. The mental health aspect needs to be addressed in a big way to. I’ll relate a small story. Years ago, like 97-98 I applied for food stamps in Colorado. As a requirement of receiving food stamps I had to attend training on job hunting. It was awesome. I learned lots of great stuff and because I was a veteran I discovered a bunch of other resources that I was able to use to sell my self as a better employee. These people need to be shown they are worth something and can contribute again and not just “put up”. Not being a grump just saying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. OldLady
    Offline

    OldLady Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    48,676
    Thanks Received:
    8,626
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +39,057
    Did you see my post on Poor Houses? They were eliminated for a reason. What about a different approach? The Industrial Revolution and Poor Houses walked hand in hand. But as it turns out, they are not more economical and they are an abuse of humans' right to dignity regardless of their financial worth. We need to take a really long look at mental health in this country, and that of course will include drug addiction. Ignoring the problem and bellowing out simplistic answers to punish the poor and the mentally ill is not going to work.
     
  10. OldLady
    Offline

    OldLady Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    48,676
    Thanks Received:
    8,626
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +39,057
     

Share This Page