Hobby Lobby and the Loss of America's Soul

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes it does...now. It wasn't always the case. And it was fought every step of the way by conservatives. So much so in 1968, a segregationist ran for President. If Rick Perry had been in government at that time, he would have been a George Wallace supporter. Would you have been? After all, it is just the government telling the States what to do, right. And we can't have that now....can we.

why do you paint Rick Perry as a racist.....?

and yes it is the Federal government telling the States what to do......this was a position held by conservative Barry Goldwater who believed in States Rights.....

Some here wish to ban assault rifles, MP9's Uzis, AK47's, AR15's, etc... What is it that the gun whackjobs ALWAYS say, "It's a slippery slope." You let employers decide what their employee's insurance will cover and you can have all sorts of goodies happen down the road.

Maybe, for example, a company that is has naturalist founders or a naturalist board will only pay for natural childbirth pregnancies forcing women to forego the epidural, a physician, etc....

It's a slippery slope.

which is a good reason to end the practice of employer-supplied healthcare....and let individuals buy their own preferred healthcare on the free market....

You’ve got to be kidding – the vast majority of workers can not afford to pay for medical expenses out of pocket.

Amazing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Constitution makes racial discrimination illegal.

Yes it does...now. It wasn't always the case.

Which was accomplished through a Constitutional Amendment, a far cry from the ObamaCare debacle that suppresses people's freedom.

There was no civil rights ‘amendment,’ civil rights were realized by Congress and the courts. And civil rights legislation was upheld as Constitutional by the Supreme Court, the same as the ACA.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Why is that?

They call people whom they never met a "slut" because Rush Limbaugh tells them.
why does a "poor" unmarried law student gal need someone else to pay for her contraceptives....she must need them for all that activity.....like most sluts....

She wanted (at least at one time) to have contraception included on the insurance she payed for. She wasn't asking you for shit dumbass.


Obamacare was upheld by the US Supreme Court during the Summer numbnuts. Two months ago on 11/5, you posted this:



Not a single reputable poll showed Romney within shouting distance of Obama except for a RCP poll that didn't even include the 50 state tally.

Learn to read a poll then I may take you more seriously.




As if you and your 100 round drum would stand a chance. It's an idiot's argument and I am not surprised you're the one making it.

I would be shocked if they acted any other waycolor me not shocked by your leftie rhetoric...

Whatever shitstain.

the "poor" lawyer student wanted her insurance to pay for her contraceptives....why should that be FORCED upon them.....? and now everybody else....

Obamacare was upheld as a TAX.....which BO denies....

government wants to ban a 100 round drum much more than a 5 bullet clip.....for good reason and its not because of sobby liberals...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes it does...now. It wasn't always the case. And it was fought every step of the way by conservatives. So much so in 1968, a segregationist ran for President. If Rick Perry had been in government at that time, he would have been a George Wallace supporter. Would you have been? After all, it is just the government telling the States what to do, right. And we can't have that now....can we.

why do you paint Rick Perry as a racist.....?

and yes it is the Federal government telling the States what to do......this was a position held by conservative Barry Goldwater who believed in States Rights.....

Some here wish to ban assault rifles, MP9's Uzis, AK47's, AR15's, etc... What is it that the gun whackjobs ALWAYS say, "It's a slippery slope." You let employers decide what their employee's insurance will cover and you can have all sorts of goodies happen down the road.

Maybe, for example, a company that is has naturalist founders or a naturalist board will only pay for natural childbirth pregnancies forcing women to forego the epidural, a physician, etc....

It's a slippery slope.

which is a good reason to end the practice of employer-supplied healthcare....and let individuals buy their own preferred healthcare on the free market....

You’ve got to be kidding – the vast majority of workers can not afford to pay for medical expenses out of pocket.

Amazing.

not "amazing" at all......this is the way it used to be before companies started to offer healthcare to attract workers....and middlemen started interfering with health care...

if people bought ordinary healthcare directly from their providers (doctors/clinics) prices would plummet immediately....

large emergencies could be covered by inexpensive major medical insurance...

 

[AVG-JOE]

so you think we should damn the 1st Amendment......?

No, I don't think the First Amendment is a bad idea, and it's a bullshit way you ask the question... Should I be free to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater?

The freedom of shareholders of a corporation to worship is no way infringed upon by the legal obligation of said corporation to provide employer provided health care coverage that meets certain minimum federal standards. Just like the freedom to worship and trust in God for protection is in no way infringed upon by forcing car manufactures to meet certain minimum safety standards, trust in God be damned.

"freedom to worship" is a confining term used by lefties......it implies freedom to just go to church and pray....however the 1st gives us the right to FREELY EXERCISE our religion......it does not confine that free exercise to a church....or area for "worship"....nor does it ban businesses from exercising their religion either....Obamacare's law prohibits the free exercise of religion...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Exercise away... nobody is trying to force birth control on anyone who doesn't want it for themselves and their family.

Should a good Muslim employer be able to withhold pay from an employee when they know that the money will be spent on porn and alcohol?


When health care coverage is no longer tied to employment, this argument is moot - until then, because of the treatment of health care insurance dollars in the tax code, that coverage is considered part of a compensation package and minimum federal standards should be met, religious differences be damned.

We live in a secular country that is governed by Civil Law, Religious Law be damned. This is the whole point of Congress being specifically prohibited from establishing a state religion.

 

[Ravi]

I wonder if you leftists think the same thing for news organizations?

After all, they are just businesses, therefore they should not enjoy first amendment rights of free speech.

I say force them to report the truth or suffer massive and bankrupting lawsuits.

After all, if the threshold for religious freedom is cut off at the notion of being a business, then the same standard applies to freedom of speech.

They should report the truth. When they get caught lying they usually get sued. Though didn't FOX News win a lawsuit that gave them the "right" to lie?

Here we have another poster that doesn't understand the constitution and only wants to use it for his narrow purposes.

 

[Ravi]

I'm sure the same argument was made when we passed anti-discrimination legislation. That damn intrusion on the side of fairness.

The Constitution makes racial discrimination illegal.

Maybe employers can decide they don't want to pay for amputations--after all your body was made in God's image...right?

Can you cite such an example of an employer making this argument?

And the GOP wonders why it is losing traction with independent minded women.

I would hardly consider a woman who runs to the arms of a big strong government to provide for her as independent.

You look at it from the wrong direction. Women see employers refusing to cover preventative health care for women and we also see the Republicans cheering them on while making snide remarks about rape and whores.

 

[jtpr312]

Hobby Lobby should close its doors. Fire everyone and close up shop. Move offshore and become an online retailer with a foreign distribution center.

Unfortunatly this is what many companies are going to do once obamacare gets into full swing. That is except for all the ones that have been given an exemption by the obama admin for their monetary support of the democrats.

 

[Nole]

And if you use my tax dollars to pay for it, which you have with PP, you're abusing that freedom...

The simple principle here is, you want it, you pay for it...

That's how freedom works dumb ass...

okay, the above is how a right wing hack thinks. However, as they stand proud and wrap the United States Constitution around themselves, they forget. The coin drops on the other side from time to time. The Right must have forgotten about Iraq, "my tax dollars" went to that as well and I did not approve. Tough titty said the kitty, right?

Your lame ass religion that has attempted to distort history is yours and yours alone, you own your faith. But some of us Americans want a health care system that has everyone's skin in the game, just not greedy profit minded insurance companies.

be careful here right wingers, your time is running out. America for the most part is smartening up, your brand of shit is not going to sell well come election time.

 

[beretta304]

And if you use my tax dollars to pay for it, which you have with PP, you're abusing that freedom...

The simple principle here is, you want it, you pay for it...

That's how freedom works dumb ass...

okay, the above is how a right wing hack thinks. However, as they stand proud and wrap the United States Constitution around themselves, they forget. The coin drops on the other side from time to time. The Right must have forgotten about Iraq, "my tax dollars" went to that as well and I did not approve. Tough titty said the kitty, right?

Your lame ass religion that has attempted to distort history is yours and yours alone, you own your faith. But some of us Americans want a health care system that has everyone's skin in the game, just not greedy profit minded insurance companies.

be careful here right wingers, your time is running out. America for the most part is smartening up, your brand of shit is not going to sell well come election time.

They win the election with a high turnout of low info voters and they think they're taking over and he's hasn't even been inaugurated yet.


One can dream...

Read a little history..This isn't anything new.

 

[Nole]

One can dream...

Read a little history..This isn't anything new.

right. the fact is the GOP should have plastered a incumbent with 8% unemployment, a mess of ACA and a lot more to speak of.

But that didn't happen now did it, and with the demographics changing at a pace the GOP cant seem to comprehend. Its close to over for the conservative movement. Unless, they move to the middle, and that seems like its the last thing they want to do.

Either adapt or die. Welcome to America.

 

[zakdavis]

The liberal war against religion is in full swing....

Starting Jan 1, 2013 Hobby Lobby will need to come up with $1.3 million PER DAY in IRS excise taxes because they are sticking to their religious principles against Obama and his anti-religion minions....

Currently, Obamacare is ushering in a new definition of "religious liberty."

-----

Take for example the Oklahoma-based companies craft store giant Hobby Lobby and booksellers Mardel Inc. In 2010 Hobby Lobby grossed $2.6 billion in sales, and employed 13,000 people in 455 outlets in 42 states.

Currently, Hobby Lobby is the largest religiously-owned non-Catholic business to have filed a lawsuit against the HHS birth control directive. Yet, despite the fact that they've been founded and run on Christian principles, Oklahoma U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton ruled that Hobby Lobby and Mardel are not religious organizations and therefore subject to the federal birth control dictate.

Because the Christian-owned company maintains that the mandate "violates the religious beliefs for their owners," it's evident that Hobby Lobby must think "religious liberty" is defined in a way other than how it is being defined by liberals at this time.

Hobby Lobby maintains that the "morning-after pill is tantamount to abortion because it can prevent a fertilized egg from becoming implanted in a woman's womb." Therefore, "defy[ing] a federal mandate requiring it to offer employees health coverage that includes access to the morning-after pill" is the company's way of staying true to its core convictions.

-----

Despite facing millions in fines, the noncompliant Hobby Lobby and Mardel Inc. CEO and founder David Green refuses to surrender the companies' religious convictions. Green has said he'd rather abandon the business. A $2.2 billion-a-year company that is willing to close itsdoors rather than compromise its core principles? Now that's impressive.



Read more: Articles: Hobby Lobby and the Loss of America's Soul

We have a Hobby Lobby in our town. With all due respect Hobby Lobby is not a religion, it's a money making business that is owned by Christians. Just like Chick Fil A. They don't qualify for religious exemptions as does the Catholic Church. If they don't wish to provide the insurance they should just make all their employees part timers.

I support this argument. Hobby lobby isn't a religious organization, they are not exempt from federal employee health mandates.

 

[zakdavis]

One can dream...

Read a little history..This isn't anything new.

right. the fact is the GOP should have plastered a incumbent with 8% unemployment, a mess of ACA and a lot more to speak of.

But that didn't happen now did it, and with the demographics changing at a pace the GOP cant seem to comprehend. Its close to over for the conservative movement. Unless, they move to the middle, and that seems like its the last thing they want to do.

Either adapt or die. Welcome to America.

That is just wrong. Don't lie to yourself and say that it is close to the end for the conservative movement. There will always be those more inclined to conservatism just as there will always be those inclined to liberalism. In the modern American sense, anyway.

 

[beretta304]

One can dream...

Read a little history..This isn't anything new.

right. the fact is the GOP should have plastered a incumbent with 8% unemployment, a mess of ACA and a lot more to speak of.

But that didn't happen now did it, and with the demographics changing at a pace the GOP cant seem to comprehend. Its close to over for the conservative movement. Unless, they move to the middle, and that seems like its the last thing they want to do.

Either adapt or die. Welcome to America.

No WRONG! Romney was a piss-poor RINO candidate. Stick around so when the worm turms you can get back to me.

 

[Sunshine]

Medical insurance is a benefit provided by many companies. Each company gets to decide the extent of this benefit. If they had just said, 'our policy doesn't cover .....' without adding the religious aspect there would be no way for anyone to argue. When I first married our insurance didn't pay for birth control. Point blank. Period. That just wasn't a benefit. I really don't know if what I have now does or not since I'm too old to need it.

There's no excuse for stupidity. And if a company wants to promote a religious agenda, they might as well expect the blow back. As the saying goes, 'stupid is as stupid does.'

FWIW, I like to shop Hobby Lobby. I'm an oil painter and that's about the only place to find what I really need. Too bad the nearest one is 1 hour away and as of yet, I don't think they sell online.

 

[JoeB131]

The liberal war against religion is in full swing....

Starting Jan 1, 2013 Hobby Lobby will need to come up with $1.3 million PER DAY in IRS excise taxes because they are sticking to their religious principles against Obama and his anti-religion minions....


]

Or they could just comply with the law...

Naw, that'd be too simple.

Hey, maybe GOD will come up with the 1.3 million.

 

[hazlnut]

Since Hobby Lobby owner and WBC have so many views in common...

 

[JoeB131]

One can dream...

Read a little history..This isn't anything new.

right. the fact is the GOP should have plastered a incumbent with 8% unemployment, a mess of ACA and a lot more to speak of.

But that didn't happen now did it, and with the demographics changing at a pace the GOP cant seem to comprehend. Its close to over for the conservative movement. Unless, they move to the middle, and that seems like its the last thing they want to do.

Either adapt or die. Welcome to America.

No WRONG! Romney was a piosss-poor RINO candidate. Stick around so when the worm turms you can get back to me.

Right. YOu keep telling yourself that Romney lost because he didn't do everything the religious crazies asked him to.

 

[beretta304]

right. the fact is the GOP should have plastered a incumbent with 8% unemployment, a mess of ACA and a lot more to speak of.

But that didn't happen now did it, and with the demographics changing at a pace the GOP cant seem to comprehend. Its close to over for the conservative movement. Unless, they move to the middle, and that seems like its the last thing they want to do.

Either adapt or die. Welcome to America.

No WRONG! Romney was a piosss-poor RINO candidate. Stick around so when the worm turms you can get back to me.

Right. YOu keep telling yourself that Romney lost because he didn't do everything the religious crazies asked him to.

Did I say that jerkoff or are you hallucinating? You did your morning troll-by now run along and try to make sense. Maybe you can mock people's beliefs along the way, moron.

 

[JoeB131]

No WRONG! Romney was a piosss-poor RINO candidate. Stick around so when the worm turms you can get back to me.

Right. YOu keep telling yourself that Romney lost because he didn't do everything the religious crazies asked him to.

Did I say that jerkoff or are you hallucinating? You did your morning troll-by now run along and try to make sense. Maybe you can mock people's beliefs along the way, moron.

Learn to use the quoting function, dumbass....

You can't make the argument that Romney was too liberal or too moderate. He did everything the far right asked of him. And you guys pretended to believe him.... until he lost, and then he became a RINO.