Hillary Clinton..."The People's Champion"!

[JoeB131]

Why should who people donate their money to, not be anonymous? If I work for an extremely conservative person and I'm rather liberal...why should my donations be made public, possibly putting my employment at risk? Do you not grasp the very real dangers inherent in that? Why don't I have the right to keep who I support with donations just as secret as who I vote for? What right do you have to take away that privacy?

if you are donating to a legit charity, fine.

If you are donating to a political group, I want to know who you are, what you are buying, and what the quid-pro-quo is.

We aren't talking about mom and pop donating $100.00 to a candidate. People do that every day, without consequence, and it's all above board and it's all disclosed.

We are talking about the Koch brothers funnelling millions in Dark Money to groups. That's corrupt, and you know it.

And you are so pissed Lois called Shennanigans on it.

 

[JoeB131]

People don't care that the IRS was used by people in power to attack their political opposition? Really, Joey? If they DON'T care then they're idiots. What happened at the IRS under Lois Lerner to conservatives could just as easily happen to liberals somewhere down the road. This isn't a partisan issue. What happened was wrong no matter which group was behind it. If the average American doesn't understand how that could "effect" their lives then we're in deep shit!

If liberals tried to cheat the system, they should be called out, too. And liberal groups were called out on it.

No, guy, the ability of rich people to funnel money into fake advocacy groups is not something most Americans are concerned about. If they did, they should be concerned about how people like Koch and Soros and Adelson are buying our political process. And they should be grateful someone like Lerner was willing to try to blow the whistle on it.

 

[JoeB131]

So Barack Obama was totally WRONG when he made that first statement? I take it then that you don't think the sitting IRS Commissioner should have been replaced? That Lois Lerner should STILL be running the IRS Office of Exempt Organizations?

Yeah, I think she still should. I think that instead of apologizing to people who've been trying to ruin him, Obama should have doubled down. He should have given a televised speech showing how much Adelson and Koch were spending trying to buy politicians. Then he should have charged their asses with bribery and tax fraud.

You see, I don't see it as a problem that someone didn't get a fraudelent tax exemption.

I see the problem being there is too much money in politics, which is how we get such bad policy.

We should start treating campaign contributions like bribery.

 

[Oldstyle]

Why should who people donate their money to, not be anonymous? If I work for an extremely conservative person and I'm rather liberal...why should my donations be made public, possibly putting my employment at risk? Do you not grasp the very real dangers inherent in that? Why don't I have the right to keep who I support with donations just as secret as who I vote for? What right do you have to take away that privacy?

if you are donating to a legit charity, fine.

If you are donating to a political group, I want to know who you are, what you are buying, and what the quid-pro-quo is.

We aren't talking about mom and pop donating $100.00 to a candidate. People do that every day, without consequence, and it's all above board and it's all disclosed.

We are talking about the Koch brothers funnelling millions in Dark Money to groups. That's corrupt, and you know it.

And you are so pissed Lois called Shennanigans on it.

Why do you call the Koch brother's millions "Dark Money"? Because they support conservatives? That's what this has always been about, Joey...stopping one group of Americans from supporting the causes they believe in.

Lois Lerner called "Shennanigans" on the Koch brothers? Really? Show me where she did ANYTHING involving a contribution by the Koch's? I might have a little more respect for Lois if she HAD gone after someone like the Koch's but she didn't...she went after Americans who didn't have the clout to fight back against what was being done to them.

The reason I'm pissed at Lois Lerner is because she tried to intimidate SMALL conservative grass roots organizations and prevent them from affecting the political process. The reason I'm pissed at Lois Lerner is she allowed confidential tax payer information to be leaked to the opponents of conservatives to be used against them. If she'd done either to the Koch brothers I'm quite sure that they would have had the where with all to fight back against her violations of their legal rights. Lois Lerner was the classic big government bully however...picking on people who WEREN'T powerful enough to fight back.

 

[Oldstyle]

So Barack Obama was totally WRONG when he made that first statement? I take it then that you don't think the sitting IRS Commissioner should have been replaced? That Lois Lerner should STILL be running the IRS Office of Exempt Organizations?

Yeah, I think she still should. I think that instead of apologizing to people who've been trying to ruin him, Obama should have doubled down. He should have given a televised speech showing how much Adelson and Koch were spending trying to buy politicians. Then he should have charged their asses with bribery and tax fraud.

You see, I don't see it as a problem that someone didn't get a fraudelent tax exemption.

I see the problem being there is too much money in politics, which is how we get such bad policy.

We should start treating campaign contributions like bribery.

Gee, Joey...if you actually charged conservatives with a crime and tried to take them to court...you'd be forced to have people like Lois Lerner TESTIFY! Do you not grasp the concept that the last thing in the WORLD that Barry and the rest of his little clique wants to do is have their little conspiracy exposed in a court of law? The reason that his message changed so dramatically from when the scandal was first exposed...to what it became later is because Lois Lerner DID take the 5th.

 

[Oldstyle]

People don't care that the IRS was used by people in power to attack their political opposition? Really, Joey? If they DON'T care then they're idiots. What happened at the IRS under Lois Lerner to conservatives could just as easily happen to liberals somewhere down the road. This isn't a partisan issue. What happened was wrong no matter which group was behind it. If the average American doesn't understand how that could "effect" their lives then we're in deep shit!

If liberals tried to cheat the system, they should be called out, too. And liberal groups were called out on it.

No, guy, the ability of rich people to funnel money into fake advocacy groups is not something most Americans are concerned about. If they did, they should be concerned about how people like Koch and Soros and Adelson are buying our political process. And they should be grateful someone like Lerner was willing to try to blow the whistle on it.

What action did Lois Lerner take against George Soros, Joey?

 

[JoeB131]

Why do you call the Koch brother's millions "Dark Money"? Because they support conservatives? That's what this has always been about, Joey...stopping one group of Americans from supporting the causes they believe in.

The Koch brothers are scum. They have everything they could want in life, but they still aren't happy that there's some schlub out there who might have a middle class lifestyle.

The reason I'm pissed at Lois Lerner is because she tried to intimidate SMALL conservative grass roots organizations and prevent them from affecting the political process.

YOu really think Granny Teabag and her groups were "Grassroot"? Man, you are fucking naive. I'd tell you there's no Easter Bunny, but I'd probably break your heart.

 

[Oldstyle]

Why do you call the Koch brother's millions "Dark Money"? Because they support conservatives? That's what this has always been about, Joey...stopping one group of Americans from supporting the causes they believe in.

The Koch brothers are scum. They have everything they could want in life, but they still aren't happy that there's some schlub out there who might have a middle class lifestyle.

The reason I'm pissed at Lois Lerner is because she tried to intimidate SMALL conservative grass roots organizations and prevent them from affecting the political process.

YOu really think Granny Teabag and her groups were "Grassroot"? Man, you are fucking naive. I'd tell you there's no Easter Bunny, but I'd probably break your heart.

You really don't know very much about the Koch brothers...do you, Joey? They are actually some of the biggest philanthropists in the country, contributing millions to charity each and every year. Are they conservatives? Yes they are and they use their money to help conservative causes.

But let's compare them to George Soros when it comes to the 527 groups that you're so up in arms about...the ones the you CLAIM Lois Lerner was going after!

ndividual donations to 527 organizations (2001 to 2010)
George Soros: $32.5 million
Koch Brothers: $1.5 million

So-called 527 groups are non-profit, tax-exempt organizations that are allowed to raise money for political activities including voter mobilization efforts, issue advocacy and other actions. They are allowed to raise unlimited amounts of money from individuals, corporations and unions. Until earlier this year, they could not use these unlimited contributions to expressly advocate for the election or defeat of a federal candidate. Federal court rulings — including Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission and SpeechNow.org v. Federal Election Commission — have broken down that restriction. For more information go here, here and here.

As mentioned previously, Soros spent $24 million in under two years and did so in his determination to defeat George W. Bush in 2004. He told the Washington Post in November 2003, “America under Bush, is a danger to the world. I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is.” Since December 2008, Soros has only donated $4,000 to these types of groups. On June 30th of this year, David Koch made a $1 million donation to the Republican Governors Association, his largest one-time donation to date.

David Koch: $1,472,000

• $1,352,000 – Republican Governors Association
• $100,000 – Americans for Better Government

George Soros: $32,506,500

• $12.05 million – Joint Victory Campaign 2004
• $7.5 million – America Coming Together
• $2.5 million – MoveOn.org
• $3.65 million – America Votes
• $3.5 million – The Fund for America
• $150,000 – Win Back Respect
• $120,000 – Majority Action
• $100,000 – Campaign Money Watch

Soros certainly wins the 527 group spending battle, beating the Koch brothers $32.5 million to $1.5 million. A graph below show the history these donations (click on graph for full size):

VERDICT: Soros rules this category, having poured more than $34.2 million into political channels, compared to $4.06 million for the Koch brothers.

 

[Oldstyle]

So tell me again how "dangerous" the Koch brothers are, Joey...while you turn a blind eye to what George Soros has been doing for the past decade plus...

 

[JoeB131]

You really don't know very much about the Koch brothers...do you, Joey? They are actually some of the biggest philanthropists in the country, contributing millions to charity each and every year. Are they conservatives? Yes they are and they use their money to help conservative causes.

Actually, they are vermin and nuts. Back when Ronald Reagan ran, Koch was on the nutjob LIbertarian ticket. We used to laugh at Libertarians. Now with Billions of Koch Blood Money, the GOP has to pander to these nuts.

But let's compare them to George Soros when it comes to the 527 groups that you're so up in arms about...the ones the you CLAIM Lois Lerner was going after!

This isn't a question of 527 group. 527 groups have to disclose their donors. (Which is how ever a complete retard like yourself could find who donated to what) This is about 501(c)4 groups, which are SUPPOSED to be Social Welfare Agencies, and are supposed to not engage in politics, which is why they are allowed to not disclose their donors lists.

But when you got Social Welfare Agencies calling themselves 'Tea Party", "Patriot' and "I'm a nutjob who listens to Glen Beck" that's clearly an intent to commit fraud.

 

[JoeB131]

so don't waste my time until you kn ow what you are talking about.

 

[The Rabbi]

So tell me again how "dangerous" the Koch brothers are, Joey...while you turn a blind eye to what George Soros has been doing for the past decade plus...

Joe is the biggest bigot hypocrite on this site. He consistently posts stupid angry stuff because George Bush got him fired from his last job. Or something like that.

 

[Oldstyle]

The fact that you believe anyone with "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their name has a clear intent to commit fraud shows quite clearly the warped world view that you have. It's idiots like yourself that made a government flunky like Lois Lerner think she was doing something good for the country...when she was in fact breaking the law and depriving Americans of their rights under the law.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe is the biggest bigot hypocrite on this site. He consistently posts stupid angry stuff because George Bush got him fired from his last job. Or something like that.

Wow, so you don't have any reading comprehension skills, either, Cleetus?

 

[JoeB131]

The fact that you believe anyone with "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their name has a clear intent to commit fraud shows quite clearly the warped world view that you have. It's idiots like yourself that made a government flunky like Lois Lerner think she was doing something good for the country...when she was in fact breaking the law and depriving Americans of their rights under the law.

Guy, there isn't a "right" to a tax exemption. You actualy have to QUALIFY for it. And frankly, these groups mostly didn't qualify for that exemption. (Even some of the ones that got it.)

If they had Tea Party or Patriot in their names, it meant that they were intending to do politics. IN fact, their big incessant whine was that their approvals were delayed until AFTER 2010 was over.

What needs to happen is Congress needs to go back, write a law that turns back Citizen's United and get the dark money out of politics.

I personally don't like seeing grown politicians kow-two to Sheldon Adelson and outlawing on-line gaming because it hurts his casinos. I'm not sure why you think this is a good thing.

 

[Oldstyle]

The fact that you believe anyone with "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their name has a clear intent to commit fraud shows quite clearly the warped world view that you have. It's idiots like yourself that made a government flunky like Lois Lerner think she was doing something good for the country...when she was in fact breaking the law and depriving Americans of their rights under the law.

Guy, there isn't a "right" to a tax exemption. You actualy have to QUALIFY for it. And frankly, these groups mostly didn't qualify for that exemption. (Even some of the ones that got it.)

If they had Tea Party or Patriot in their names, it meant that they were intending to do politics. IN fact, their big incessant whine was that their approvals were delayed until AFTER 2010 was over.

What needs to happen is Congress needs to go back, write a law that turns back Citizen's United and get the dark money out of politics.

I personally don't like seeing grown politicians kow-two to Sheldon Adelson and outlawing on-line gaming because it hurts his casinos. I'm not sure why you think this is a good thing.

If those conservative groups didn't qualify for an exemption then the IRS should have denied their applications. They didn't do that though...did they Joey? No, what Lois Lerner and her merry band did was suspend those conservative groups in a kind of "red tape limbo"...not approving them but not denying them either...stringing them along for months and sometimes years. At the same time they approved liberal groups for their exemptions. That's why Lois Lerner took the 5th! She knows damn well that what she did was wrong. She knows damn well that she violated IRS regulations and Federal law when she released confidential tax payer information to other branches of the government and to political opponents of conservatives.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm curious, Joey...is it only the Koch brothers money that is "dark" or does George Soros's money qualify for that designation as well?

 

[Oldstyle]

The fact that you believe anyone with "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in their name has a clear intent to commit fraud shows quite clearly the warped world view that you have. It's idiots like yourself that made a government flunky like Lois Lerner think she was doing something good for the country...when she was in fact breaking the law and depriving Americans of their rights under the law.

Guy, there isn't a "right" to a tax exemption. You actualy have to QUALIFY for it. And frankly, these groups mostly didn't qualify for that exemption. (Even some of the ones that got it.)

If they had Tea Party or Patriot in their names, it meant that they were intending to do politics. IN fact, their big incessant whine was that their approvals were delayed until AFTER 2010 was over.

What needs to happen is Congress needs to go back, write a law that turns back Citizen's United and get the dark money out of politics.

I personally don't like seeing grown politicians kow-two to Sheldon Adelson and outlawing on-line gaming because it hurts his casinos. I'm not sure why you think this is a good thing.

Why do I think it's a "good thing" for our politicians to support the American casino industry over on-line gaming groups that were all based overseas to avoid American taxes and regulations? Gee, because doing so protects American jobs? Duh?

 

[JoeB131]

If those conservative groups didn't qualify for an exemption then the IRS should have denied their applications. They didn't do that though...did they Joey? No, what Lois Lerner and her merry band did was suspend those conservative groups in a kind of "red tape limbo"...not approving them but not denying them either...stringing them along for months and sometimes years. At the same time they approved liberal groups for their exemptions. That's why Lois Lerner took the 5th! She knows damn well that what she did was wrong. She knows damn well that she violated IRS regulations and Federal law when she released confidential tax payer information to other branches of the government and to political opponents of conservatives.

No, she took the fifth because only an idiot would testify in front of Congress when they are looking for a scalp.

Point was, it was entirely within her discretion on who to scrutinize. If she wanted to use a Ouija board to decide who to scrutinize, that was her perogative.

She decided that Tea Party was good indication of fraud. Which it was. Shit, even the GOP is trying to shove the Tea Party into the attic like a crazy uncle.

 

[JoeB131]

Why do I think it's a "good thing" for our politicians to support the American casino industry over on-line gaming groups that were all based overseas to avoid American taxes and regulations? Gee, because doing so protects American jobs? Duh?

You wingnuts don't give a fuck about "American" jobs. Not with all the Free Trade treaties you've signed.

Stop being a tool or RIch People, Dog-Style. They'll fuck you over for lunch money. Trust me, been there, done that, wore the t-shirt.

Now I'm for the government fucking the rich at every oppurtunity.