Hi all, Senior in HS and trying to understand

[frigidweirdo]

Graduating this up-coming year (yay!) and want to try and understand this thing we call our government...
Here to learn!

You'll probably first learn that too many people don't have a clue, and yet have a vote. That they find it easy to be convinced by people who spout out lies, and mistrust the truth.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm your new best friend!

I love your ideas!

So the next question is, how to implement them. I mean, there are still very many questions about how this can all work, but given that, how do we get the current system to accept the new system?

Best idea for government is proportional representation. If you look at the 2000 farce of an election you'll see hundreds of thousands more people voted for Gore than Bush, but Bush won. Congress should be PR and the presidential election should scrap the electoral college and just go for a "winner gets the most votes" situation. This would change how the US works.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Graduating this up-coming year (yay!) and want to try and understand this thing we call our government...
Here to learn!

Welcome to USMB. You'll have to sift through a lot of trash to get to the valuable bits of information, be careful.

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm your new best friend!

I love your ideas!

So the next question is, how to implement them. I mean, there are still very many questions about how this can all work, but given that, how do we get the current system to accept the new system?

Dear RWS all my ideas have come from listening to solutions critics insights and input of others From ALL Parties and taking the best and refining the flaws. So we keep doing this.

Let's start by assessing our networks and circle of influence. Are you near a school or business that interacts with the public. Which party district chairs are near you. What student groups or any Tea Party, Green or Libertarian groups have independent activists looking to galvanize grassroots ideas.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hey, guys. We scared off the kid.

been here all along lurking... You scared off no-one not even 'the kid' as the OldLady calls me... Just been watching each and every question and response... still evaluating each forum member and their logic and their motivation. It (their motivation) comes through whether they want it to or not....
Love all you people on both sides though.! I hope we are all wanting what's best for our country, constitution, and it's citizens.
The USA's legal citizens. Right? That's who we are wanting the best for right? That is an issue in my mind as I live in a bordering state and deal with crime from illegals that keep our local jail full and my own classmates that some of them can't even pass English classes because they can't speak or understand it but the teachers pass them anyway... what the heck is up with that?
Anyways. Still here Old Lady... keep trying though

Good for you 18 and Life
I'm sorry to hear about your friend in the hospital, I hope that the sitiation is going to be alright and getting better soon, people heal faster in a forgiving and uplifting environment so please set aside any negative thoughts energy and talk so your friend can heal faster, keep focusing on the positive and on recovering and forgive any fearful angry thoughts that otherwise slowdown healing and drag it out. Work that out later, but have everyone you know join in prayer and agreement for healing and uplifting for fastest recovery. The other issues can best be corrected when everyone is United and standing strong. So get well first, then you can take on what put your friend in the hospital. Focus on what unites and brings everyone up, not down and divided.

I'm more glad you like what you see here which means you get what's going on and can see the solutions through the problems that don't discourage you. This says a lot about you, so good for you!

As a side note, some other student asked a favor and needs a survey filled out for class. Can I ask if you'll contact Lewdog and find friends teachers students who will answer by email or PM ? The topic is on perception of police or abuse of power. I thought perhaps other students would be sympathetic in helping with a class project just to get answers turned in for the deadline. Can you help?

I encourage you to follow posts on any angle you find interesting, maybe start with one person here or there and just talk with them. Your interests and areas of strength will come out in the process which is a mutual benefit.

Thanks for being here, take care and sorry about your friend. Hope to hear more from you as we go, and thanks also if you can help Lewdog with that survey for class.

 

[RWS]

Well, option one has now opened its window...

It's up to us to make it happen. Give it time. Let it grow. Be prepared for change. This is why we needed Trump...

We need a lot of people thinking hard about a new way of government. And the way things should roll, in a society like ours...Emily has some great ideas to start.

But needs to simplify them for the masses

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, option one has now opened its window...

It's up to us to make it happen. Give it time. Let it grow. Be prepared for change. This is why we needed Trump...

We need a lot of people thinking hard about a new way of government. And the way things should roll, in a society like ours...Emily has some great ideas to start.

But needs to simplify them for the masses

Dear RWS one other independent citizen who likes the idea of organizing a separate system to govern social programs is jumping on board here soon.

So with three we have a conspiracy to defend equal civil rights instead of violate them!

I posted more replies with more descriptions in the thread by JimBowie1958 called ARGH!
Can I please ask your help to edit that language into something simpler?

If you track my posts on that thread and the ones I addressed to JakeStarkey and C Clayton Jones
Can you pick out which statements
summarize the points the best?

They come out different when I talk with different people. Do you see anything there that is general enough to use? Thank you!

 

[RWS]

I'm sorry Emily, while I'm very good at converting complex thoughts into simple ideas, I simply do not have the time on this forum to translate everything you're saying. And you definitely need to simplify those ideas into something the masses can understand.

First thing, if I'm gonna help you, let's group the ideas into the category they belong.

OK?

We need an external gov't that takes care of global matters.

We need an internal gov't that takes care of country-wide issues.

And we need our state govt's for stuff that the country doesn't understand based on your region.

And our local govt's to help people down to the city level.

Each one of those should be independently elected. Whatever parties they dream up, only affects that level of government. So a local government's candidates have no affiliation to any of the other candidates. I understand the need for a party system, to allow us to vote for a few people instead of millions. But there's no reason that party system has to apply to all levels of government.

Let's call it a rainbow government. With each spectrum, or color within, to have a political voice in some part of our government. This allows people to band together with ideas about certain issues, but not control every single issue that faces an American. Like the way it is now..

 

[RWS]

Because anyone who professes to know everything about world matters and foreign politics, and war...cannot possibly know the internal workings of life where you live, and apply the same politics across the board. So they gather people around them that are affiliated to the same party to give their input.

Let the experts be the experts of their subject matter. Let's have independent experts leading us in each level of government. And they should not be people the president selects to be those experts, but people WE select to represent us at each level, independent of other policies.

That is the key thought. We need to dismantle the current party system, and put a more uncorruptible system in place, where we have many choices. We have to get rid of Dem/Rep, and give multiple options for each level of government, and opportunity for people to have the exposure necessary to run for a position, without already having sold out their soul to gather the millions/billions necessary nowadays to run for a high office.

 

[RWS]

We need a grass-roots transformation of the electoral system, allowing non-rich people to run for office, but still limit it so that there aren't 1 million people running for the same job.

That's what I find really hard to figure out.

How to get someone on the ballot and in public consideration, that isn't rich and hasn't sold out his/her soul to raise millions/billions to fund a campaign...

When we can answer that question, then we can move on to our progressive ideas. We need to figure that one out first, because once Trump fails, we'll be back to the same thing.

 

[emilynghiem]

We need a grass-roots transformation of the electoral system, allowing non-rich people to run for office, but still limit it so that there aren't 1 million people running for the same job.

That's what I find really hard to figure out.

How to get someone on the ballot and in public consideration, that isn't rich and hasn't sold out his/her soul to raise millions/billions to fund a campaign...

When we can answer that question, then we can move on to our progressive ideas. We need to figure that one out first, because once Trump fails, we'll be back to the same thing.

Dear RWS
1. Thank you for spelling things out in a clear list. The objection you listed, that the collective power should not be abused to impose or confuse the authority of different levels of government is just that: one of the goals is to prevent this as an objection. So all participants in each group agree NOT to abuse power to raise this objection, or if it starts to happen, the members agree to follow a,mediation process to point out the abuse (whether inside the group or petition an official outside that is doing this) and to resolve it by agreement. However it could be that to resolve the abuse, it could take a person intervening from one level or region coming in to talk to the person or group from a different section to work out a solution to whatever is causing them to overreach. So I agree we should all agree on the objectives and prevent the objections, but we may not agree on restrictions to prevent it. We can agree to focus on the issue or level we commit to, and to consult with those people first should an issue arise at that level and not bypass or issue statements without consensus among the group first. I get your idea, and just sense it would change a little by the time a group agrees how to frame it.
2. I do believe there should be some consultants who operate on all levels such as ministerial where all things are interconnected, but these should have no power to intervene except by consensus so that power is not abused. The mediators work by having zero say over the outcome and only serve to facilitate between the other parties. The arbitrators work by consensus of the people agreeing to them and to that process. These are basically acting as judges who only monitor if there is a conflict and whether it is resolved by consensus or it is being forced by compromise or coercion that won't last. But you are right the judges should not have power to impose their own solution, it has to come from the people directly involved in the conflict and not pressure not bullying by coercion or exclusion from outside. However in mediating or consulting to resolve a conflict between parties, these parties should be free to pick any mediator on the planet they agree to listen to, so if they request that help it should not be restricted or denied as long as they all agree to mediation and consensus not coercion.
3. The reasons mediation fails include raising objections but not committing to resolve them so it blocks consensus, time limits or legal restrictions such as speak freely or admitting wrong would trigger punishment and people cannot talk but compelled to take the fifth or not to disclose information that has implications from outside sources, and not asking or accessing help with a solution from other sources that could have helped them. If arbitration or mediation fails this is when I would recommend seeking help from outside to try to resolve the obstruction by consensual steps the parties agree to try next, not by coercion. The time limits are the worst pressures, and for the legal we might rely on a legal team to write agreements of immunity from prosecution as needed to resolve issues by consensus so this process isn't abused by either side to avoid addressing things but used to resolve the grievance and agree on solutions in full, not to obstruct justice but to protect the consensus process until the issues are settled to satisfaction of all directly affected.
4. Trump said he would take input from the public and put together ideas from that. I'd say let's contact Jill Stein and the Greens who practice consensus building as their meeting model, and they support representation by party, and ask her to lead the mediation that has zero power over the outcome. Let's state the goals and the objections.
The goals can be setting up 4-5 city states along the border to build campuses for workers to replace prisons and sweatshops as restitution for labor abuses by wrongdoers held responsible for costs, and to claim legal residency for dual citizenship for nationals from Mexico living undocumented in America so they have a safe agreed way to register by enrolling in work study programs through these school bases. These schools can be restitution for any complaints or abuses or fraud by Trump University and ask the students and workers across America to build campus programs the right way. Families or communities with mixed status or citizenship don't have to be divided if they have legal residence in these bases, and military prisons and teaching hospitals and factories can be developed along the border for security, and to provide jobs education and services legally, instead of just building a wall.

The goal of city states is to legalize the process of coming forward admitting violations of immigration labor criminal or trafficking laws and agreeing to a consensus process of assessing debts and damages and working out settlement and restitution plans. The workers and residents should have rights to ownership by investing their labor, and citizens who agree to donate or lend against debts owed by wrongdoers should get tax breaks while all costs should be covered by wrongdoers including interest or legal fees to work out settlement plans so there is no cost to taxpayers.

This WILL create tracks for interns and upstarts to learn to manage and lead got at all levels. The next Obama or Trump does NOT have to be a billionaire to work their way up this track from city to national to earn experience as Clinton did to seek higher office.

So this answers the issues brought up by Trump and Clintons backgrounds

And let's all ask the people on agreement to nominate Hillary Clinton to lead the nation in putting together these plans with all parties left out of representation, especially women and minority leaders and interests.

She can exercise power as President of this people's senate to put all the progressive ideas into action. Set up Model states along the border guarded by the military bases, and show,her leadership does unite if we back her. To assist Trump in managing and leading input from the people.
Www.earnedamnesty.org
www.rightsfortheworkers.org
www.ethics-commission.net

Note: where we need Cruz and Clintons help of legal expertise is applying RICO restitution laws for victims of trafficking to claim property as restitution. Whole prisons were abused to traffic labor, and jails abused to traffic women and LGBT youth on the streets. So this is the source of saving taxpayer resources and all this can be invested in rebuilding communities the workers can own and manage by pairing interns with mentors and giving tax breaks to investors to lend money until the debts and restitution are paid off by the wrongdoers responsible or by their donors or sponsors agreeing to help voluntarily.

The Green progressive Democrats want a cabinet level Peace Dept. I suggested expanding the Dept of Justice to Dept of Peace and Justice to offer mediation and consensus for Restorative Justice. Where complaints and solutions are reported to the Senate Judiciary committee. But the mediation process remains outside to be free of politics and pressure. If the people help Trump define this new position then Cruz could lead the men who have restitution to pay and invest and Clinton can work with Sanders and Stein to lead women and workers who are owed restitution in voicing and repressing their demands damages and debts.

 

[Picaro]

Graduating this up-coming year (yay!) and want to try and understand this thing we call our government...
Here to learn!

Stay away from ideologies, and try and travel overseas or even South America some; that way you can see what real oppression and racism is and get a sense of context. That will make it easy to laugh off most of the drivel you read re 'left' and 'right' after seeing both in their existential realities.

 

[emilynghiem]

Graduating this up-coming year (yay!) and want to try and understand this thing we call our government...
Here to learn!

Stay away from ideologies, and try and travel overseas or even South America some; that way you can see what real oppression and racism is and get a sense of context. That will make it easy to laugh off most of the drivel you read re 'left' and 'right' after seeing both in their existential realities.

Thanks Picaro
Actually some of the solutions coming out of Africa are better models of restorative justice than we have here. Look up Mandela s Truth Commission in South Africa and Reconciliation villages that heal and reunite tribes after genocide.

 

[MisterBeale]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

 

[Boss]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

You're asking the wrong poster. Ike is a devout Communist who has no clue how our government works and is sorely in need of such books himself.

There is no single book that adequately explains everything in all it's nuance. For a basic primer, Syl Sobel's books are a pretty good place to start if you are a young person wanting to learn the basics. If you are more advanced or need something with a little more depth, my recommendation is Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. It was written in the 1830's by a Frenchman but is still surprisingly relevant today.

Probably the very best resource for discovering how our founders intended our government to work is not a book at all.... it's the Federalist Papers. I mentioned this in my first post. Anyone who wants to fully understand what the framers meant by the words written in the Constitution, should read the Federalist Papers.

 

[ChrisL]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

You're asking the wrong poster. Ike is a devout Communist who has no clue how our government works and is sorely in need of such books himself.

There is no single book that adequately explains everything in all it's nuance. For a basic primer, Syl Sobel's books are a pretty good place to start if you are a young person wanting to learn the basics. If you are more advanced or need something with a little more depth, my recommendation is Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. It was written in the 1830's by a Frenchman but is still surprisingly relevant today.

Probably the very best resource for discovering how our founders intended our government to work is not a book at all.... it's the Federalist Papers. I mentioned this in my first post. Anyone who wants to fully understand what the framers meant by the words written in the Constitution, should read the Federalist Papers.

It's amazing that this isn't covered in school. I remember very briefly going over the constitution and the federalist papers. More time obviously needs to be spent covering this subject.

 

[MisterBeale]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

You're asking the wrong poster. Ike is a devout Communist who has no clue how our government works and is sorely in need of such books himself.

There is no single book that adequately explains everything in all it's nuance. For a basic primer, Syl Sobel's books are a pretty good place to start if you are a young person wanting to learn the basics. If you are more advanced or need something with a little more depth, my recommendation is Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. It was written in the 1830's by a Frenchman but is still surprisingly relevant today.

Probably the very best resource for discovering how our founders intended our government to work is not a book at all.... it's the Federalist Papers. I mentioned this in my first post. Anyone who wants to fully understand what the framers meant by the words written in the Constitution, should read the Federalist Papers.

It's amazing that this isn't covered in school. I remember very briefly going over the constitution and the federalist papers. More time obviously needs to be spent covering this subject.

I know all of this, I was asking Isaac. I know he claims to read a lot. I really wanted HIS opinion on what books one should read.

As someone who has studied political science, I have my own ideas, naturally. However, he seems quite opinionated, but didn't give any advice about what books one should study, so I was just curious what he thought were good resources to learn about the truth of government.

I have no problem with folks who like literature, but I'm not sure he has read, or is familiar with anything that is really informative about the real nature of modern government.

 

[there4eyeM]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

"One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"?

 

[MisterBeale]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

You're asking the wrong poster. Ike is a devout Communist who has no clue how our government works and is sorely in need of such books himself.

There is no single book that adequately explains everything in all it's nuance. For a basic primer, Syl Sobel's books are a pretty good place to start if you are a young person wanting to learn the basics. If you are more advanced or need something with a little more depth, my recommendation is Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. It was written in the 1830's by a Frenchman but is still surprisingly relevant today.

Probably the very best resource for discovering how our founders intended our government to work is not a book at all.... it's the Federalist Papers. I mentioned this in my first post. Anyone who wants to fully understand what the framers meant by the words written in the Constitution, should read the Federalist Papers.

Those might be a good start about how things got started, however, they don't really explain the reality, not one bit, of what is going on today.

They are idealistic tracts which should inform citizens about the ideal, but in no way have any bearing on reality.

 

[Boss]

As you can see 18 and life, this isn't the place to look for fact. Unless you can weed through the derps who think opening a book is tantamount egging Jesus' house.

What books would you recommend to someone for understanding how government works?

You're asking the wrong poster. Ike is a devout Communist who has no clue how our government works and is sorely in need of such books himself.

There is no single book that adequately explains everything in all it's nuance. For a basic primer, Syl Sobel's books are a pretty good place to start if you are a young person wanting to learn the basics. If you are more advanced or need something with a little more depth, my recommendation is Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. It was written in the 1830's by a Frenchman but is still surprisingly relevant today.

Probably the very best resource for discovering how our founders intended our government to work is not a book at all.... it's the Federalist Papers. I mentioned this in my first post. Anyone who wants to fully understand what the framers meant by the words written in the Constitution, should read the Federalist Papers.

Those might be a good start about how things got started, however, they don't really explain the reality, not one bit, of what is going on today.

They are idealistic tracts which should inform citizens about the ideal, but in no way have any bearing on reality.

Well, if you want reality.... Read any of Mark Levin's books. I recommend Ameritopia, Plunder and Deceit and Liberty and Tyranny. You will find them to be full of factual information and historical events you probably never knew about.

Now, I will take exception to your comment that the Federalist Papers are "idealistic tracts" ...because they certainly are nothing of the sort. The FP are a series of essays from the framers on the specifics surrounding everything in our Constitution. Why it is there and why it is important. It's really like the User's Guide to the Constitution.

A lot of young people today think that the SCOTUS exists to "interpret" the Constitution. That is false. The SCOTUS exists simply to rule on the Constitution which is interpreted through the writings in the Federalist Papers. Everything in the Constitution is addressed in full detail with complete explanations in no ambiguous terms as to what it meant. So this silly notion that SCOTUS is supposed to "read the tea leaves" and determine what was meant is foolish and ignorant of actual historic fact.

This is the single biggest problem we have with regard to education on government in America today and as ChrisL said, schools should spend MUCH more time on this. I will admit, it's difficult to read the Federalist Papers because it's written in Old English and it takes a bit of patience and becomes cumbersome and monotonous sometimes, trying to decipher what is being said. Still, it is our best resource for the meaning and intent of every single detail found in the Constitution.