Have we reached the point where compromise is not achievable?

[danielpalos]

The right wing doesn't care and it cannot be very important, since they believe we can lower taxes. Just Commerce Clause as usual.

 

[The Original Tree]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

I plan to hold the right wing responsible since they were willing to pass tax cuts before ensuring this did no become a problem, for national security patriotism, not just right wing propaganda and rhetoric.

I'll wait to see what the gop House does. I get it that politically Trump has to be able to show a Wall that's being built by 2019. But the Wall wasn't an issue the first time Ryan tanked immigration reform.

What's funny is that the gop's position is to allow Apple and GE to import more foreign engineers who work cheaper than Americans.

You do realize The House already passed a budget which Dems agreed with and Schumer, Graham, and Dirty Dick Durbin, shot down a deal that both Dems and Republicans voted for and passed in The House, and did so just to hold American Children without Insurance, and Our American Military Hostage just so they could kiss the ass of people who should be deported and will be deported the second DACA expires?

I mean, you aren't that stupid are you not to know this?

 

[The Original Tree]

The right wing doesn't care and it cannot be very important, since they believe we can lower taxes. Just Commerce Clause as usual.

Hey moron.....The Commerce Clause cannot raise any money on people who are not documented.

That is what Travel Visas, Work Visas, Student Visa and LEGAL IMMIGRATION are for.

Illegal Immigrants are stealing from your Grandmother on Medicaid, from American Citizens of all walks of life who have to use our Social Safety Net.

And furthermore, if you Bunghole Fucking Jizz Guzzling Libtards want a DAMN WELFARE STATE, you cannot have OPEN BORDERS and People pouring in here and draining our Social Safety Net the second they cross the border.

The money wasted over the years on Illegal Immigrants is enough to give every Citizen a Guaranteed Income and make them a Middle Class Citizen even if they did not work one Fucking Day in their life (Most Liberals)

Market Forces would dictate they flow across the border for Free Welfare and Food Stamps, if they know they aren't going to get deported, and aren't going to get stopped at the border

WTF?

You want FREE SHIT? Quit giving your FREE SHIT away to Foreigners FOR NOTHING!

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

You do realize The House already passed a budget which Dems agreed with and Schumer, Graham, and Dirty Dick Durbin, shot down a deal that both Dems and Republicans voted for and passed in The House, and did so just to hold American Children without Insurance, and Our American Military Hostage just so they could kiss the ass of people who should be deported and will be deported the second DACA expires?

Danielpalos,
I mean, you aren't that stupid are you not to know this?

I think he is......"moron" might be the applicable term

 

[bendog]

Getting to be as intransigent as the former tea party

Left says Dems caved on shutdown

 

[danielpalos]

The right wing doesn't care and it cannot be very important, since they believe we can lower taxes. Just Commerce Clause as usual.

Hey moron.....The Commerce Clause cannot raise any money on people who are not documented.

That is what Travel Visas, Work Visas, Student Visa and LEGAL IMMIGRATION are for.

Illegal Immigrants are stealing from your Grandmother on Medicaid, from American Citizens of all walks of life who have to use our Social Safety Net.

And furthermore, if you Bunghole Fucking Jizz Guzzling Libtards want a DAMN WELFARE STATE, you cannot have OPEN BORDERS and People pouring in here and draining our Social Safety Net the second they cross the border.

The money wasted over the years on Illegal Immigrants is enough to give every Citizen a Guaranteed Income and make them a Middle Class Citizen even if they did not work one Fucking Day in their life (Most Liberals)

Market Forces would dictate they flow across the border for Free Welfare and Food Stamps, if they know they aren't going to get deported, and aren't going to get stopped at the border

WTF?

You want FREE SHIT? Quit giving your FREE SHIT away to Foreigners FOR NOTHING!

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics or the law.

Capital doesn't care about social morals, Because they are free.

 

[william the wie]

Are y'all familiar with the term...

de fac·to
ˌdā ˈfaktō/
adverb

1. in fact, or in effect, whether by right or not.
   
   DACA kids are de facto citizens of the U.S.
   
   --they know no other country, pay taxes, serve in the OUR military and are better American citizens than the xenophobes and bigots who want them deported...
   
   The typical Trump xenophobe is a bitter pathetic failure in life who wants to blame their own lack of accomplishments on someone else. Most are not smart enough, educated enough, or hard working enough to accomplish what DACA kids have.
   
   DACA kids represent the best of us. We should focus on getting rid of the ugly vile racists who drag our country down under the guise of making it great.
   
   
   FACTS:
   
   Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
   
   Eligibility
   To be eligible, illegal immigrants must have entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007, be currently in school, a high school graduate or be honorably discharged from the military, be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012, and not have been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor or three other misdemeanors, or otherwise pose a threat to national security. The program does not provide lawful status or a path to citizenship,[38] nor does it provide eligibility for federal welfare or student aid.[3]
   
   In August 2012, the Migration Policy Institute estimated that as many as 1.76 million people could be eligible for DACA. Of those, 28% were under 15 and would have to wait until reaching that age to apply. In addition, roughly 20% did not meet any of the education criteria, but could become eligible by enrolling in a program before submitting their application. 74% of the eligible population was born in Mexico or Central America. Smaller proportions came from Caribbean and South America (11%), Asia (9%), and the rest of the world (6%).[39][38]
   
   To qualify for DACA, applicants must meet the following major requirements, although meeting them does not guarantee approval:
   
   
   • Came to the United States before their 16th birthday
   • Have lived continuously in the United States since June 15, 2007
   • Were under age 31 on June 15, 2012 (born on June 16, 1981 or after)
   • Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS
   • Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012
   • Have completed high school or a GED, have been honorably discharged from the armed forces, or are enrolled in school
   • Have not been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety
   
   
   

Im all for helping the dreamers and getting them legal status but you gotta be careful with posting an OP like this, you are going to get slaughtered by the facts. Technically the Dreamers are not here legally and they do not have legal status. DACA, was a directive by the executive to defer action on deportations for people who qualify for this status. That means ICE will prioritize deportations towards different individuals. DACA also gave work permits to individuals however it never officially changed their legal status. An act of congress is the only way to do that. We need something like the dream act to be passed to change their status from illegal to legal.

Stop calling flashers , flashers they are just normal people who like exposing themselves to little kids.

Dumb comparison. Dreamers or more victims of their parents crimes than offenders which is why their situation should be looked at differently. You aren’t doing your arguement any favors by comparing them to flashers.

Well given the tiny minority of those being called dreamers fit even Obama's definition of dreamers you have a PR problem of epic proportions.

 

[AntonToo]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

Polls on questions like this can be easily manipulated.

Want people to support DACA? "Do you support allowing hard working people to stay in the US legally, who were brought here as young children through no fault of their own?"

Want people to oppose DACA? "Do you support allowing illegal immigrants permanent resident status just because their parents brought them here illegally decades ago?"

It's why you can't put any weight to polls on things like this.

Quote me a poll which asks DACA question in that form or any other form you find biased.

Polling usually releases all questions, exactly how they were asked.

Your blanket "can't trust them because they may ask a question a certain way" is just a form of denial.

 

[martybegan]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

Polls on questions like this can be easily manipulated.

Want people to support DACA? "Do you support allowing hard working people to stay in the US legally, who were brought here as young children through no fault of their own?"

Want people to oppose DACA? "Do you support allowing illegal immigrants permanent resident status just because their parents brought them here illegally decades ago?"

It's why you can't put any weight to polls on things like this.

Quote me a poll which asks DACA question in that form or any other form you find biased.

Polling usually releases all questions, exactly how they were asked.

Your blanket "can't trust them because they may ask a question a certain way" is just a form of denial.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con..._Jan2018-Refield_RegisteredVoters_Topline.pdf

Do you think that children who were brought into this country illegally by their parents, many of whom are now in their 20s and 30s, should be given a path to U.S. citizenship or should not be entitled to a path to citizenship without first returning home?

This question puts the affirmative first, and tries to explain the situation, thus generating sympathy for the "yes" answer. Also uses the word "children".

IM9 Do you favor or oppose the lottery that randomly picks 50,000 people to enter the U.S. each year for greater diversity?

This one to me is biased to get the negative response, lack of detail, uses the term randomly like an epithet.

IM10 Would you favor or oppose Democrats voting to shut the government down if the continuing budget resolution does not include restoring so-called DACA work permits for undocumented immigrants brought here illegally by their parents?

This one is interesting, the positive is first giving it the advantage, but considering it calls out one party and blames them, i can see it getting independents to jump on the bandwagon.

Would you favor or oppose a congressional deal that gives undocumented immigrants brought here by their parents work permits and a path to citizenship in exchange for increasing merit preference over preference for relatives, eliminating the diversity visa lottery, and funding barrier security on the U.S.-Mexico border?

This one has an issue less with the wording and more how it would be used. People supporting DACA would only quote the first part, and ignore the desire for the wall, and the end of certain forms of immigration.

 

[Slade3200]

Are y'all familiar with the term...

de fac·to
ˌdā ˈfaktō/
adverb

1. in fact, or in effect, whether by right or not.
   
   DACA kids are de facto citizens of the U.S.
   
   --they know no other country, pay taxes, serve in the OUR military and are better American citizens than the xenophobes and bigots who want them deported...
   
   The typical Trump xenophobe is a bitter pathetic failure in life who wants to blame their own lack of accomplishments on someone else. Most are not smart enough, educated enough, or hard working enough to accomplish what DACA kids have.
   
   DACA kids represent the best of us. We should focus on getting rid of the ugly vile racists who drag our country down under the guise of making it great.
   
   
   FACTS:
   
   Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
   
   Eligibility
   To be eligible, illegal immigrants must have entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007, be currently in school, a high school graduate or be honorably discharged from the military, be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012, and not have been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor or three other misdemeanors, or otherwise pose a threat to national security. The program does not provide lawful status or a path to citizenship,[38] nor does it provide eligibility for federal welfare or student aid.[3]
   
   In August 2012, the Migration Policy Institute estimated that as many as 1.76 million people could be eligible for DACA. Of those, 28% were under 15 and would have to wait until reaching that age to apply. In addition, roughly 20% did not meet any of the education criteria, but could become eligible by enrolling in a program before submitting their application. 74% of the eligible population was born in Mexico or Central America. Smaller proportions came from Caribbean and South America (11%), Asia (9%), and the rest of the world (6%).[39][38]
   
   To qualify for DACA, applicants must meet the following major requirements, although meeting them does not guarantee approval:
   
   
   • Came to the United States before their 16th birthday
   • Have lived continuously in the United States since June 15, 2007
   • Were under age 31 on June 15, 2012 (born on June 16, 1981 or after)
   • Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS
   • Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012
   • Have completed high school or a GED, have been honorably discharged from the armed forces, or are enrolled in school
   • Have not been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety
   
   
   

Im all for helping the dreamers and getting them legal status but you gotta be careful with posting an OP like this, you are going to get slaughtered by the facts. Technically the Dreamers are not here legally and they do not have legal status. DACA, was a directive by the executive to defer action on deportations for people who qualify for this status. That means ICE will prioritize deportations towards different individuals. DACA also gave work permits to individuals however it never officially changed their legal status. An act of congress is the only way to do that. We need something like the dream act to be passed to change their status from illegal to legal.

Stop calling flashers , flashers they are just normal people who like exposing themselves to little kids.

Dumb comparison. Dreamers or more victims of their parents crimes than offenders which is why their situation should be looked at differently. You aren’t doing your arguement any favors by comparing them to flashers.

Well given the tiny minority of those being called dreamers fit even Obama's definition of dreamers you have a PR problem of epic proportions.

How so? I see the PR problem coming from each story of family getting torn apart each time a hard working dreamer gets deported. Stories like this, and this guy didn't even qualify as a dream even though he was brought here when he was 10. I promise the majority of Americans who view this story know that something wrong is happening. Stories like this are the PR nightmare, its not what good hearted people want to see our great country doing

 

[BluesLegend]

Schumer has secured an official commitment to that out of McConnell. Good plan.

Cynically, the dems are better off if the gop is seen as intransigent on immigration reform. So, putting the ball in Ryan and Trump's courts for an up or down vote on Daca makes sense.

The last two times amnesty for illegals came up many Dem's ran for the exits and wanted no part of it and the effort failed.

What planet are you from?

In Historic Vote, Senate Passes Bipartisan Immigration Bill | TIME.com

Key provisions of the Senate bipartisan immigration bill - The Washington Post

Read it and weep lib only 33 Democrats in a Dem controlled senate voted for the amnesty Bush offered for illegals, 15 Democrats said hell no and killed the bill.

What planet are you from? Can you count?

Only 33 Democrats, 12 Republicans and one independent voted to advance the bill, while 15 Democrats joined 37 Republicans and one independent to block it.

Senate kills Bush immigration reform bill

15 Dem's who supposedly care so much about illegals voted to kill the bill so stop pretending its only the GOP that is against illegals and amnesty there are plenty of Dem's who won't vote for amnesty. Or we could also talk about the window Dem's had with a majority in the House and filibuster proof super majority in the senate why didn't they grant illegals amnesty then hmmm? I think we all know.

 

[The Original Tree]

The right wing doesn't care and it cannot be very important, since they believe we can lower taxes. Just Commerce Clause as usual.

Hey moron.....The Commerce Clause cannot raise any money on people who are not documented.

That is what Travel Visas, Work Visas, Student Visa and LEGAL IMMIGRATION are for.

Illegal Immigrants are stealing from your Grandmother on Medicaid, from American Citizens of all walks of life who have to use our Social Safety Net.

And furthermore, if you Bunghole Fucking Jizz Guzzling Libtards want a DAMN WELFARE STATE, you cannot have OPEN BORDERS and People pouring in here and draining our Social Safety Net the second they cross the border.

The money wasted over the years on Illegal Immigrants is enough to give every Citizen a Guaranteed Income and make them a Middle Class Citizen even if they did not work one Fucking Day in their life (Most Liberals)

Market Forces would dictate they flow across the border for Free Welfare and Food Stamps, if they know they aren't going to get deported, and aren't going to get stopped at the border

WTF?

You want FREE SHIT? Quit giving your FREE SHIT away to Foreigners FOR NOTHING!

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics or the law.

Capital doesn't care about social morals, Because they are free.

Capital IS NOT FREE MORON! CAPITAL IS PRODUCED AND TRADED. SOMEONE PRODUCES THE CAPITAL, AND THEN IT IS TRANSFERRED TO SOMEONE ELSE IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING OF VALUE.

Giving Capital to People who are PRODUCING NOTHING is a NET DRAIN of YOUR CAPITAL. IT IS A SOCIALIST - DEFICIT PERPETUALLY INDEBTED STATE DOOMED TO A FINANCIALLY DISASTROUS FUTURE.

If you are going to do that, just Print WORTHLESS FIAT CAPITAL and throw it from the WINDOWS in to the STREETS!

NO One takes you seriously because you have NO FUCKING COMMON SENSE! And you cannot even possibly have been formally educated anywhere with regards to Economics. You are just too idiotic to even know how Economics works, nor Capitalism for that matter.

You want FREE SHIT? Quit giving your FREE SHIT TO ILLEGALS!

You want a WELFARE STATE, make sure you don't BANKRUPT it by Giving Your Social Safety Net Dollars to ILLEGALS who aren't paying in to the system.

If you hate your mother, grandmother, father, and grandfather or CHILDREN who may be using our SOCIAL SAFETY NET and the TAX MONIES THAT FUND IT, then by ALL MEANS, THROW GRANDMA, & LITTLE KIDS OVER THE CLIFF in FAVOR OF ILLEGALS WHO DON'T BELONG HERE AND WHO HATE US ANYWAYS!

FREE SHIT ISN'T a way TO RUN A GOVERNMENT, but if you are going to have a WELFARE STATE, make SURE YOUR WELFARE GOES TO PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGALLY PART OF THE STATE instead of some ILLEGAL LEACHES LOOKING TO STEAL GRANDMA'S FREE SHIT and YOURS!

 

[The Original Tree]

Are y'all familiar with the term...

de fac·to
ˌdā ˈfaktō/
adverb

1. in fact, or in effect, whether by right or not.
   
   DACA kids are de facto citizens of the U.S.
   
   --they know no other country, pay taxes, serve in the OUR military and are better American citizens than the xenophobes and bigots who want them deported...
   
   The typical Trump xenophobe is a bitter pathetic failure in life who wants to blame their own lack of accomplishments on someone else. Most are not smart enough, educated enough, or hard working enough to accomplish what DACA kids have.
   
   DACA kids represent the best of us. We should focus on getting rid of the ugly vile racists who drag our country down under the guise of making it great.
   
   
   FACTS:
   
   Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA)
   
   Eligibility
   To be eligible, illegal immigrants must have entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007, be currently in school, a high school graduate or be honorably discharged from the military, be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012, and not have been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor or three other misdemeanors, or otherwise pose a threat to national security. The program does not provide lawful status or a path to citizenship,[38] nor does it provide eligibility for federal welfare or student aid.[3]
   
   In August 2012, the Migration Policy Institute estimated that as many as 1.76 million people could be eligible for DACA. Of those, 28% were under 15 and would have to wait until reaching that age to apply. In addition, roughly 20% did not meet any of the education criteria, but could become eligible by enrolling in a program before submitting their application. 74% of the eligible population was born in Mexico or Central America. Smaller proportions came from Caribbean and South America (11%), Asia (9%), and the rest of the world (6%).[39][38]
   
   To qualify for DACA, applicants must meet the following major requirements, although meeting them does not guarantee approval:
   
   
   • Came to the United States before their 16th birthday
   • Have lived continuously in the United States since June 15, 2007
   • Were under age 31 on June 15, 2012 (born on June 16, 1981 or after)
   • Were physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS
   • Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012
   • Have completed high school or a GED, have been honorably discharged from the armed forces, or are enrolled in school
   • Have not been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety
   
   
   

Im all for helping the dreamers and getting them legal status but you gotta be careful with posting an OP like this, you are going to get slaughtered by the facts. Technically the Dreamers are not here legally and they do not have legal status. DACA, was a directive by the executive to defer action on deportations for people who qualify for this status. That means ICE will prioritize deportations towards different individuals. DACA also gave work permits to individuals however it never officially changed their legal status. An act of congress is the only way to do that. We need something like the dream act to be passed to change their status from illegal to legal.

Stop calling flashers , flashers they are just normal people who like exposing themselves to little kids.

Dumb comparison. Dreamers or more victims of their parents crimes than offenders which is why their situation should be looked at differently. You aren’t doing your arguement any favors by comparing them to flashers.

Well given the tiny minority of those being called dreamers fit even Obama's definition of dreamers you have a PR problem of epic proportions.

How so? I see the PR problem coming from each story of family getting torn apart each time a hard working dreamer gets deported. Stories like this, and this guy didn't even qualify as a dream even though he was brought here when he was 10. I promise the majority of Americans who view this story know that something wrong is happening. Stories like this are the PR nightmare, its not what good hearted people want to see our great country doing

30 years of stealing from The American People, and this guy should be in Jail, not being deported!

 

[Slade3200]

Im all for helping the dreamers and getting them legal status but you gotta be careful with posting an OP like this, you are going to get slaughtered by the facts. Technically the Dreamers are not here legally and they do not have legal status. DACA, was a directive by the executive to defer action on deportations for people who qualify for this status. That means ICE will prioritize deportations towards different individuals. DACA also gave work permits to individuals however it never officially changed their legal status. An act of congress is the only way to do that. We need something like the dream act to be passed to change their status from illegal to legal.

Stop calling flashers , flashers they are just normal people who like exposing themselves to little kids.

Dumb comparison. Dreamers or more victims of their parents crimes than offenders which is why their situation should be looked at differently. You aren’t doing your arguement any favors by comparing them to flashers.

Well given the tiny minority of those being called dreamers fit even Obama's definition of dreamers you have a PR problem of epic proportions.

How so? I see the PR problem coming from each story of family getting torn apart each time a hard working dreamer gets deported. Stories like this, and this guy didn't even qualify as a dream even though he was brought here when he was 10. I promise the majority of Americans who view this story know that something wrong is happening. Stories like this are the PR nightmare, its not what good hearted people want to see our great country doing

30 years of stealing from The American People, and this guy should be in Jail, not being deported!

Im not interested in talking to you about this. You only seem capable of inflammatory slurs and not intellectual debate. You're pov is far off from where my perspective and values are, its not even worth engaging with.

 

[AntonToo]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

Polls on questions like this can be easily manipulated.

Want people to support DACA? "Do you support allowing hard working people to stay in the US legally, who were brought here as young children through no fault of their own?"

Want people to oppose DACA? "Do you support allowing illegal immigrants permanent resident status just because their parents brought them here illegally decades ago?"

It's why you can't put any weight to polls on things like this.

Quote me a poll which asks DACA question in that form or any other form you find biased.

Polling usually releases all questions, exactly how they were asked.

Your blanket "can't trust them because they may ask a question a certain way" is just a form of denial.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con..._Jan2018-Refield_RegisteredVoters_Topline.pdf

Do you think that children who were brought into this country illegally by their parents, many of whom are now in their 20s and 30s, should be given a path to U.S. citizenship or should not be entitled to a path to citizenship without first returning home?

This question puts the affirmative first, and tries to explain the situation, thus generating sympathy for the "yes" answer. Also uses the word "children".

What the fuck? The question ACCURATELY describes the situation.

Children is EXACTLY what those people were when they were brought into this country.

I'm sorry you cannot deal with reality that most Americans want to give them path to citizenship.

 

[blackhawk]

I have a compermise I will give a pathway to citizenship to all dreamers who have a clean criminal record or only minor non violent offense for an end to the visa lottery system, chain migration, and increased border security through a wall increased border patrol agents or some type of electronic monitoring system or a combination of all three. Seems fair to me both sides get what they want.

 

[jillian]

I have a compermise I will give a pathway to citizenship to all dreamers who have a clean criminal record or only minor non violent offense for an end to the visa lottery system, chain migration, and increased border security through a wall increased border patrol agents or some type of electronic monitoring system or a combination of all three. Seems fair to me both sides get what they want.

*you* don't give anything. and you're in a minority of the country on this issue and pretty much every other.

thanks

 

[martybegan]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

Polls on questions like this can be easily manipulated.

Want people to support DACA? "Do you support allowing hard working people to stay in the US legally, who were brought here as young children through no fault of their own?"

Want people to oppose DACA? "Do you support allowing illegal immigrants permanent resident status just because their parents brought them here illegally decades ago?"

It's why you can't put any weight to polls on things like this.

Quote me a poll which asks DACA question in that form or any other form you find biased.

Polling usually releases all questions, exactly how they were asked.

Your blanket "can't trust them because they may ask a question a certain way" is just a form of denial.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con..._Jan2018-Refield_RegisteredVoters_Topline.pdf

Do you think that children who were brought into this country illegally by their parents, many of whom are now in their 20s and 30s, should be given a path to U.S. citizenship or should not be entitled to a path to citizenship without first returning home?

This question puts the affirmative first, and tries to explain the situation, thus generating sympathy for the "yes" answer. Also uses the word "children".

What the fuck? The question ACCURATELY describes the situation.

Children is EXACTLY what those people were when they were brought into this country.

I'm sorry you cannot deal with reality that most Americans want to give them path to citizenship.

it's designed to elicit an emotional response and get a supportive answer.

They could have used the word minors, which would have been more neutral.

 

[AntonToo]

Or even desired?

Unless Daca is part of a bill the gop must pass, Ryan won't bring it up, unless Trump (aka Miller Sessions) tells him it's ok, and the chances of that are unknown, but very possibly zero.

All this despite supermajorities in polls and the senate wanting a daca fix, and while I'm not sure about polls, a supermaj in the senate want to end this shutdown v, debt limit debate.

Senate to vote Monday on plan to reopen government

Polls on questions like this can be easily manipulated.

Want people to support DACA? "Do you support allowing hard working people to stay in the US legally, who were brought here as young children through no fault of their own?"

Want people to oppose DACA? "Do you support allowing illegal immigrants permanent resident status just because their parents brought them here illegally decades ago?"

It's why you can't put any weight to polls on things like this.

Quote me a poll which asks DACA question in that form or any other form you find biased.

Polling usually releases all questions, exactly how they were asked.

Your blanket "can't trust them because they may ask a question a certain way" is just a form of denial.

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-con..._Jan2018-Refield_RegisteredVoters_Topline.pdf

Do you think that children who were brought into this country illegally by their parents, many of whom are now in their 20s and 30s, should be given a path to U.S. citizenship or should not be entitled to a path to citizenship without first returning home?

This question puts the affirmative first, and tries to explain the situation, thus generating sympathy for the "yes" answer. Also uses the word "children".

What the fuck? The question ACCURATELY describes the situation.

Children is EXACTLY what those people were when they were brought into this country.

I'm sorry you cannot deal with reality that most Americans want to give them path to citizenship.

it's designed to elicit an emotional response and get a supportive answer.

They could have used the word minors, which would have been more neutral.

Bullshit, they were, in most plain language - children

 

[bripat9643]

McConnell has promised Dem's a straight up and down vote on DACA separate from the budget bill so what are Dem's afraid of? My guess is Dem's know they don't have the votes or the support of the American people to pass a DACA bill on its owns, so they are holding the budget and government hostage to get it.

That's a worthless promise coming from a Republican.

I hope so.