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I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.2b The topic is hate speech. Christian homophobia is no different to Muslim homophobia so why would you want to discuss one in isolation to the other? Both are negative and, in both cases the expression of that hatred has led to killings. Neither can be a red herring and the only reason for rejecting either would be ignorance or having an agenda.I disagree. Anti-homosexual attitudes exist in many non-Muslim countries. People who immigrate must learn tolerance whatever they personally feel, and must follow new country's laws and norms. I think there is an issue if more people immigrate than can be adequately assimilated but that varies by country, and depends on that countries own resources. Christianity had to adjust and evolve and it is a recent and tenuous evolution that is still fragile (look at what is happening in Russia). So will other religions.
But I think you're right and I'm wrong in broad brushing an entire group - it isn't necessarily hate speech, maybe hateful though. Perhaps it depends on the context.
Except that they won't.
Not for generations, AND even then the current plan is to keep importing new unassimilated immigrants.
Except that is a common canard - certain immigrants (insert ethnic/religious group of your choice) "won't assimilate". And that is the sort of broadbrushing that leads to hate. Assimilation rates vary according to country (not religion) of origin and the country they are going to. For example, studies have shown that Muslims in the US and Canada are one of the best assimilated groups, UK as well.
And if your point about Islam's homophobia is true, then it is not hateful to discuss it.
Indeed, it become irresponsible to NOT discuss it.
And your concerns about Christians is a complete REd Herring which has nothing to do with the topic.
No, it is not hateful to discuss it, and no, talking about the Christian faith in relation to homophobia is as much to do with the topic as talking about the Muslim faith (particularly when you look at the Pew research). When you say that it's a red herring then the question comes up are you as much concerned for homosexual rights as you are for attacking Islam?
But I agree, none of that is hate speech but how it is discussed determines on whether it's hateful wouldn't you say?
1. Tell the girls of Rotherham how well the UK immigrants have assimilated. AND you did not address the fact that the constant stream of NEW immigrants will, of course, be a constant part of the population.
2. I'm glad you agree that talking about the truth of Islamic Homophobia is not hateful, for example.
2b. And that's the way it is used as a Red Herring. The topic is changed from the topic to whether the one dialog participant is a bad person.
Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.2b The topic is hate speech. Christian homophobia is no different to Muslim homophobia so why would you want to discuss one in isolation to the other? Both are negative and, in both cases the expression of that hatred has led to killings. Neither can be a red herring and the only reason for rejecting either would be ignorance or having an agenda.Except that they won't.
Not for generations, AND even then the current plan is to keep importing new unassimilated immigrants.
Except that is a common canard - certain immigrants (insert ethnic/religious group of your choice) "won't assimilate". And that is the sort of broadbrushing that leads to hate. Assimilation rates vary according to country (not religion) of origin and the country they are going to. For example, studies have shown that Muslims in the US and Canada are one of the best assimilated groups, UK as well.
And if your point about Islam's homophobia is true, then it is not hateful to discuss it.
Indeed, it become irresponsible to NOT discuss it.
And your concerns about Christians is a complete REd Herring which has nothing to do with the topic.
No, it is not hateful to discuss it, and no, talking about the Christian faith in relation to homophobia is as much to do with the topic as talking about the Muslim faith (particularly when you look at the Pew research). When you say that it's a red herring then the question comes up are you as much concerned for homosexual rights as you are for attacking Islam?
But I agree, none of that is hate speech but how it is discussed determines on whether it's hateful wouldn't you say?
1. Tell the girls of Rotherham how well the UK immigrants have assimilated. AND you did not address the fact that the constant stream of NEW immigrants will, of course, be a constant part of the population.
2. I'm glad you agree that talking about the truth of Islamic Homophobia is not hateful, for example.
2b. And that's the way it is used as a Red Herring. The topic is changed from the topic to whether the one dialog participant is a bad person.
Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
Its dishonest to criticise the one and airbrush the other out of existence. Will you join me in condemning homophobia from wherever it comes ?
You would need to quantify your assertions to have credibility.
As it stands you seem to be saying that Muslim homophobia is hate speech but Christian homophobia isnt, primarily because it is less widespread. I believe that both are hate speech and would have thought that the evidence supports that overwhelmingly.
I have already condemned Muslim homophobia, you might have missed that.I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.2b The topic is hate speech. Christian homophobia is no different to Muslim homophobia so why would you want to discuss one in isolation to the other? Both are negative and, in both cases the expression of that hatred has led to killings. Neither can be a red herring and the only reason for rejecting either would be ignorance or having an agenda.Except that is a common canard - certain immigrants (insert ethnic/religious group of your choice) "won't assimilate". And that is the sort of broadbrushing that leads to hate. Assimilation rates vary according to country (not religion) of origin and the country they are going to. For example, studies have shown that Muslims in the US and Canada are one of the best assimilated groups, UK as well.
No, it is not hateful to discuss it, and no, talking about the Christian faith in relation to homophobia is as much to do with the topic as talking about the Muslim faith (particularly when you look at the Pew research). When you say that it's a red herring then the question comes up are you as much concerned for homosexual rights as you are for attacking Islam?
But I agree, none of that is hate speech but how it is discussed determines on whether it's hateful wouldn't you say?
1. Tell the girls of Rotherham how well the UK immigrants have assimilated. AND you did not address the fact that the constant stream of NEW immigrants will, of course, be a constant part of the population.
2. I'm glad you agree that talking about the truth of Islamic Homophobia is not hateful, for example.
2b. And that's the way it is used as a Red Herring. The topic is changed from the topic to whether the one dialog participant is a bad person.
Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
Its dishonest to criticise the one and airbrush the other out of existence. Will you join me in condemning homophobia from wherever it comes ?
It is dishonest for you to pretend that you are prepared to do ANYTHING to seriously address any problem caused by Muslim Immigration and CUlture.
And that your purpose in this thread is to deflect from, distract from and defend Islamic Culture and Immigration.
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
The influence of evangelical churches in Africa is disturbing.
Jamaica is considered to be the most homophobic country in the world. This article links the growth of homophobia to the influence of "Christian" preachers.
The law went widely unenforced until the late 1980s and early ’90s, when the introduction of anti-gay rhetoric from televangelists Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart developed a hatred of biblical proportions throughout the devoutly Christian island. Homosexuality was labeled an “abominable” disease spread by pedophiles, purportedly linked to the spread of HIV and AIDS.
‘The Abominable Crime’ Spotlights Homophobia in Jamaica
While interviewing former Parliamentarian Ernest Smith, he said, “There was no violence against gays. That’s a lie. It is gays against gays.” So I interviewed people in the gay community and found that was not the case. Person after person had the most horrific tales. People were being killed with machetes and burned alive in their houses.
Jamaican Gays are entitled to political asylum in the UK because of the situation over there. Its not just the religion,the popular culture glamourises homophobia as well.
I have already condemned Muslim homophobia, you might have missed that.I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.2b The topic is hate speech. Christian homophobia is no different to Muslim homophobia so why would you want to discuss one in isolation to the other? Both are negative and, in both cases the expression of that hatred has led to killings. Neither can be a red herring and the only reason for rejecting either would be ignorance or having an agenda.1. Tell the girls of Rotherham how well the UK immigrants have assimilated. AND you did not address the fact that the constant stream of NEW immigrants will, of course, be a constant part of the population.
2. I'm glad you agree that talking about the truth of Islamic Homophobia is not hateful, for example.
2b. And that's the way it is used as a Red Herring. The topic is changed from the topic to whether the one dialog participant is a bad person.
Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
Its dishonest to criticise the one and airbrush the other out of existence. Will you join me in condemning homophobia from wherever it comes ?
It is dishonest for you to pretend that you are prepared to do ANYTHING to seriously address any problem caused by Muslim Immigration and CUlture.
And that your purpose in this thread is to deflect from, distract from and defend Islamic Culture and Immigration.
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
Not exactly sure what you mean there.
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
Not exactly sure what you mean there.
YOu asked why make it about "one" group instead of combating it where ever it occurs.
One group's homophobia could be best addressed by one method, while another DIFFERENT group might require a DIFFERENT response.
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
Not exactly sure what you mean there.
YOu asked why make it about "one" group instead of combating it where ever it occurs.
One group's homophobia could be best addressed by one method, while another DIFFERENT group might require a DIFFERENT response.
Ok, now I understand what you mean.
Homophobia is homophobia regardless of who is mouthing the words. It has a very disturbing relationship to religion. Why anyone would want to focus on just one aspect of homophobia and exclude all others from examination is beyond me. Yes it occurs in Muslim cultures. Yes it occurs in Christians cultures. So what? What are you going to do about it?
Why is it so much more important to make it about ONE group alone then it is to combat it where ever it occurs?
Homophobia - and related hate speech is actually on the rise in certain parts of the world and that can usually be correlated to an increase in religiousity. Uganda changed it's laws to criminalize homosexuality. Initially, with the death penalty (with the support of certain US churches who couldn't alter America's trend towards widespread exceptence so they moved their attentions to Africa) - but international outcry was so great, and threats of withdrawing financial support forced them to alter it.
However - and this is where it ties in to hate speech - newspapers in Uganda publish names of known homosexuals. A 2011 list was published in an article calling for execution of homosexuals. David Kato, a gay rights activist in Uganda was beaten to death in 2010 after his information was published in a newspaper.
Most recently: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/25/ugandan-tabloid-prints-list-top-200-homosexuals
While the newspapers may not have engaged in obvious hate speech - they had to have known the results of their publishing names in such a homophobic country would lead to lynchings. In fact, was that the intent?
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
Not exactly sure what you mean there.
YOu asked why make it about "one" group instead of combating it where ever it occurs.
One group's homophobia could be best addressed by one method, while another DIFFERENT group might require a DIFFERENT response.
Ok, now I understand what you mean.
Now, want to guess my opinion on the best way to address Islamic Homophobia?
I have condemned it. I support Gay rights and speak against bigotry. What else would you have me do ?I have already condemned Muslim homophobia, you might have missed that.I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.2b The topic is hate speech. Christian homophobia is no different to Muslim homophobia so why would you want to discuss one in isolation to the other? Both are negative and, in both cases the expression of that hatred has led to killings. Neither can be a red herring and the only reason for rejecting either would be ignorance or having an agenda.
Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
Its dishonest to criticise the one and airbrush the other out of existence. Will you join me in condemning homophobia from wherever it comes ?
It is dishonest for you to pretend that you are prepared to do ANYTHING to seriously address any problem caused by Muslim Immigration and CUlture.
And that your purpose in this thread is to deflect from, distract from and defend Islamic Culture and Immigration.
Interesting that you didn't offer what you were prepared to DO, about it.
Which is nothing.
Because different groups in different situations, with different types and levels of an issue can be dealt most effectively with different responses.
Not exactly sure what you mean there.
YOu asked why make it about "one" group instead of combating it where ever it occurs.
One group's homophobia could be best addressed by one method, while another DIFFERENT group might require a DIFFERENT response.
Ok, now I understand what you mean.
Now, want to guess my opinion on the best way to address Islamic Homophobia?
Feel free to express it.
I have condemned it. I support Gay rights and speak against bigotry. What else would you have me do ?I have already condemned Muslim homophobia, you might have missed that.I didnt invent Christian homophobia and I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it comes.Because people like you are bringing up "Christian homophobia" to deflect from, distract from, and defend Islamic Homophobia.
As part of YOUR agenda.
Its dishonest to criticise the one and airbrush the other out of existence. Will you join me in condemning homophobia from wherever it comes ?
It is dishonest for you to pretend that you are prepared to do ANYTHING to seriously address any problem caused by Muslim Immigration and CUlture.
And that your purpose in this thread is to deflect from, distract from and defend Islamic Culture and Immigration.
Interesting that you didn't offer what you were prepared to DO, about it.
Which is nothing.
But it is not "an “abominable” disease spread by pedophiles" which is just pure hate speech.The influence of evangelical churches in Africa is disturbing.
Jamaica is considered to be the most homophobic country in the world. This article links the growth of homophobia to the influence of "Christian" preachers.
The law went widely unenforced until the late 1980s and early ’90s, when the introduction of anti-gay rhetoric from televangelists Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart developed a hatred of biblical proportions throughout the devoutly Christian island. Homosexuality was labeled an “abominable” disease spread by pedophiles, purportedly linked to the spread of HIV and AIDS.
‘The Abominable Crime’ Spotlights Homophobia in Jamaica
While interviewing former Parliamentarian Ernest Smith, he said, “There was no violence against gays. That’s a lie. It is gays against gays.” So I interviewed people in the gay community and found that was not the case. Person after person had the most horrific tales. People were being killed with machetes and burned alive in their houses.
Jamaican Gays are entitled to political asylum in the UK because of the situation over there. Its not just the religion,the popular culture glamourises homophobia as well.
FYI, Homosexuality IS linked to the spread of HIV and AIDS.
But it is not "an “abominable” disease spread by pedophiles" which is just pure hate speech.The influence of evangelical churches in Africa is disturbing.
Jamaica is considered to be the most homophobic country in the world. This article links the growth of homophobia to the influence of "Christian" preachers.
The law went widely unenforced until the late 1980s and early ’90s, when the introduction of anti-gay rhetoric from televangelists Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart developed a hatred of biblical proportions throughout the devoutly Christian island. Homosexuality was labeled an “abominable” disease spread by pedophiles, purportedly linked to the spread of HIV and AIDS.
‘The Abominable Crime’ Spotlights Homophobia in Jamaica
While interviewing former Parliamentarian Ernest Smith, he said, “There was no violence against gays. That’s a lie. It is gays against gays.” So I interviewed people in the gay community and found that was not the case. Person after person had the most horrific tales. People were being killed with machetes and burned alive in their houses.
Jamaican Gays are entitled to political asylum in the UK because of the situation over there. Its not just the religion,the popular culture glamourises homophobia as well.
FYI, Homosexuality IS linked to the spread of HIV and AIDS.
