CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[Bruce_T_Laney]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

 

[Taz]

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Raising the purchase age limit to 21 (or higher?) would have prevented Cruz from buying guns. Teenagers are still too immature to handle weapons on their own.

An 18 year old can vote, can serve in the military, get married, work productive, pay taxes, have children...it's an infringement on their Constitutional right

You asked what would do it, I told you. That you would use a strawman argument to refuse a solution that could save schoolchildren from being shot at school says a lot about you.

Btw, there's already an age limit on buying guns and you don't seem too bent out of shape about that. So you AGREE with an age limit, the only question now is what age should the limit be at? Which is why your Constitutional Right angle is a strawman argument, you're already letting a class of people be refused that right.

A Constitutional right is not a strawman...good gawd

The right to bear arms will always exist even if some weapons are banned, like nukes. So since you (and everyone else) agree on limits to the 2nd, the question is only how long the list of banned weapon will be?

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Simple, freedom of choice.

We as parents control the majority of the content of what our kids see and it is true we can not control all of it we still control the majority of it.

It is the individual that has to take the steps to stop the culture and laws are not needed but instead adults being adults is needed and saying no to their kid when they want to buy that violent video games, watch those violent movies and shows and if not then the failure is on the adult society and not the child.

Also how many more laws do we need to tell us to behave?

 

[ChrisL]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Well, none of those things have to do with my constitutional rights first of all.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Raising the purchase age limit to 21 (or higher?) would have prevented Cruz from buying guns. Teenagers are still too immature to handle weapons on their own.

Popping Cruz into a mental health facility after say, the tenth warning would have accomplished the same without punishing those who had no such nefarious plans.

 

[Taz]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Raising the purchase age limit to 21 (or higher?) would have prevented Cruz from buying guns. Teenagers are still too immature to handle weapons on their own.

Popping Cruz into a mental health facility after say, the tenth warning would have accomplished the same without punishing those who had no such nefarious plans.

It's not a punishment to not be able to drink or buy a gun until your 21, plus you could still go hunting with a parent who would own the kid's gun and store it properly with his guns.

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Simple, freedom of choice.

We as parents control the majority of the content of what our kids see and it is true we can not control all of it we still control the majority of it.

It is the individual that has to take the steps to stop the culture and laws are not needed but instead adults being adults is needed and saying no to their kid when they want to buy that violent video games, watch those violent movies and shows and if not then the failure is on the adult society and not the child.

Also how many more laws do we need to tell us to behave?

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

 

[ChrisL]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Raising the purchase age limit to 21 (or higher?) would have prevented Cruz from buying guns. Teenagers are still too immature to handle weapons on their own.

Popping Cruz into a mental health facility after say, the tenth warning would have accomplished the same without punishing those who had no such nefarious plans.

If he was expressing homicidal ideation, then they could have started a process to have him committed.

What is Involuntary Commitment?
Involuntary Commitment is a process by which a person can be admitted to a psychiatric hospital (or psychiatric unit within a general hospital) against his or her will.

What is a "Blue Paper"?
The form that is used to request that someone be involuntarily committed is commonly referred to as the "Blue Paper".

Who Can Request that Some One be Involuntarily Committed?
Anyone, including health care providers and law enforcement officers, may request that a person be involuntarily committed. They do that by filling out Part 1 of the "Blue Paper". The person making the request must state:

• His/her belief that the person has a mental illness
• His/her belief that the person poses a likelihood of serious harm because of the mental illness
• Why s/he believes this

The person making the request must also provide name and address of the proposed patient's guardian, spouse, parent, adult child, next of kin, or (if none of those exists) friend, so that the hospital can fulfill its obligation to notify that person.

What Happens After Some One Starts a Blue Paper?
The person making the request then finds a doctor or other clinical person to do a “certifying examination.” The examination is usually done by crisis staff or hospital staff.

The examiner completes Part 2 of the Blue Paper and must make an official statement that the person examined:

• Has a mental illness; and
• The illness causes a substantial risk of harm to self and/or others

The examiner must explain the reasons for her/his opinions and must also specify the least restrictive form of transportation that would meet the patient's clinical needs.

The person making the request for involuntary hospitalization (usually crisis or hospital staff) then locates a hospital bed and somebody to provide transportation, and asks a judge or justice of the peace to sign Part 3 of the Blue Paper, indicating that the application was completed in accordance with the law. The judge or justice of the peace doesn’t make a determination about whether the statements on the application are true or not.

What Happens When the Person Gets to the Hospital?
When someone is taken to the hospital on a Blue Paper, the person is not automatically admitted. The head of the psychiatric hospital (or psychiatric unit) may do one of three things:

• Admit the person as an involuntary patient, so long as the certifying examination took place no more than two days before the date of admission
• Admit the person as a voluntary patient (if the person agrees)
• Not admit the person at all, if the hospital believes the person does not need involuntary hospitalization and does not need, or does not agree to, voluntary hospitalization

A doctor or psychologist must examine the patient within 24 hours of admission to the hospital. If that professional doesn't officially state that the patient has a mental illness and due to the mental illness poses a likelihood of serious harm, the person must be released. (The doctor or psychologist must be someone other than the professional who signed the Blue Paper).

How Long Do Blue Papers Last?
A hospital may keep a person on Blue Paper admission for 3 days, not counting the day of admission. If the third day is on a weekend or legal holiday, then the hospital can make the person stay until the next business day. The patient may be discharged sooner if the hospital decides that the person may be safely discharged. The hospital may also admit a person as a voluntary patient at any time during the Blue Paper period if the person agrees.

What Happens After the Blue Paper Admission?
If the hospital believes the person needs continued hospitalization beyond the blue paper period, then it may:

• Admit the person as a voluntary patient if the person agrees; OR
• File for a court order of hospitalization

If the hospital does neither of these, then it must discharge the person after the Blue Paper admission period.

 

[Taz]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Simple, freedom of choice.

We as parents control the majority of the content of what our kids see and it is true we can not control all of it we still control the majority of it.

It is the individual that has to take the steps to stop the culture and laws are not needed but instead adults being adults is needed and saying no to their kid when they want to buy that violent video games, watch those violent movies and shows and if not then the failure is on the adult society and not the child.

Also how many more laws do we need to tell us to behave?

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

"I resign" ?

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Well, none of those things have to do with my constitutional rights first of all.

Your constitutional rights don't count for much as your culture is literally collapsing all around you.

Maybe it's time to think outside the box a bit.
.

 

[ChrisL]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Well, none of those things have to do with my constitutional rights first of all.

Your constitutional rights don't count for much as your culture is literally collapsing all around you.

Maybe it's time to think outside the box a bit.
.

So, you believe that my rights (which are inherent) are the cause of society collapsing? Interesting, but doubtful.

 

[ChrisL]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

Well, none of those things have to do with my constitutional rights first of all.

Your constitutional rights don't count for much as your culture is literally collapsing all around you.

Maybe it's time to think outside the box a bit.
.

My 2nd amendment right has nothing to do with the collapse of society.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Simple, freedom of choice.

We as parents control the majority of the content of what our kids see and it is true we can not control all of it we still control the majority of it.

It is the individual that has to take the steps to stop the culture and laws are not needed but instead adults being adults is needed and saying no to their kid when they want to buy that violent video games, watch those violent movies and shows and if not then the failure is on the adult society and not the child.

Also how many more laws do we need to tell us to behave?

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

 

[Mac1958]

So, you believe that my rights (which are inherent) are the cause of society collapsing? Interesting, but doubtful.

Huh?

I haven't come within 500 miles of that.

You're missing my point.
.

 

[Mac1958]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.
Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

 

[ChrisL]

So, you believe that my rights (which are inherent) are the cause of society collapsing? Interesting, but doubtful.

Huh?

I haven't come within 500 miles of that.

You're missing my point.
.

Well, you seem to be suggesting that my giving up a constitutional right would somehow "right" society. First of all, the biggest problem that we have is that there are too many people and hence too many scumbags in the world. The more people you have, the more scumbags you are going to have. I will keep my rights and my gun, thanks.

 

[Mac1958]

So, you believe that my rights (which are inherent) are the cause of society collapsing? Interesting, but doubtful.

Huh?

I haven't come within 500 miles of that.

You're missing my point.
.

Well, you seem to be suggesting that my giving up a constitutional right would somehow "right" society. First of all, the biggest problem that we have is that there are too many people and hence too many scumbags in the world. The more people you have, the more scumbags you are going to have. I will keep my rights and my gun, thanks.

Again, no, I'm not. Holy crap.

Please see Post 12. That's the real source of our cultural decay.
.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Those that want Guns removed from our society and want the repeal of the Second Amendment do not want a inch, so what is the point of giving them the inch when their goal is entire mile?

See the reality is Democrats had their chance from 2009 to 2011 to issue a ban on AR-15's and failed to do so and now their supporters demand the opposition party to do what their political party failed to do, and why?

Simple, wedge issue!

Also what is the inch you want to give?

Using the No-Fly list to ban someone from their Constitutional Right to Bear Arms when the list convict you because of your name?

Having a doctor evaluate you to see if you are sane enough?

Banning of certain firearms that will grow over the years because someone feels they need to feel safe from a threat that most likely will never happen?

A child has a better chance of being killed by a opioid overdose from Mexican Cartel drugs that were created by Chinese drugs that were supply by Russian money than some mass shooter in a school!

Now before anyone lecture me or taunts me let me be honest and admit I have no love for the NRA or AR-15's but when LEO fails to enforce laws they already have that could have prevented a mass shooting, well friend it is a no on that inch you request for because LEO need to do their job first before I grant them anymore laws that they will fail to enforce.

So as you ask for that inch please know that some of these shootings could have been prevented and maybe it is time to blame the LEO for failing to do their job and stop asking for another inch!

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

I did not say give up at all!

I said it start at the home with us being adults and saying no!

Do you need a law to justify your no to your kid?

I know I do not and let be honest it is the failure of the parent if they refuse to say no!

So for me you do not need more laws but parents with a backbone that will say no to the child!