CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[Mac1958]

How many people here are going to completely miss my point?

It ain't that complicated.

 

[Mac1958]

As I've said, this is a matter of priorities. You've been placed on the defensive. Why aren't you responding with the very same tactic? Putting public pressure on the video game industry, the music industry, the movie industry, the television industry, the elements of our culture that are creating these animals?
.

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

I did not say give up at all!

I said it start at the home with us being adults and saying no!

Do you need a law to justify your no to your kid?

I know I do not and let be honest it is the failure of the parent if they refuse to say no!

So for me you do not need more laws but parents with a backbone that will say no to the child!

For the third or fourth time, I'm not talking about laws.

This is amazing.
.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

How many people here are going to completely miss my point?

It ain't that complicated.

You point is give a inch and then go after industries that promote violence but the left does not want a inch and want the entire mile while ignoring the issues you point to!

We are not going to be Sweden and ban violence from life!

 

[Mac1958]

How many people here are going to completely miss my point?

It ain't that complicated.

You point is give a inch and then go after industries that promote violence but the left does not want a inch and want the entire mile while ignoring the issues you point to!

We are not going to be Sweden and ban violence from life!

Well, that's your choice, your priority.

I'm more interested in dealing with the root cause of this.

And by the way, both can be done at the same time.
.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

How are you going to place limits on those industries? I agree the culture is there but you'd run into all kinds of issues trying to prevent violence in video games, music, tv and movies.

Maybe start at home...that's a huge part of the problem, society has went to hell in a hand basket and lack of proper parenting is a big part of it

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

I did not say give up at all!

I said it start at the home with us being adults and saying no!

Do you need a law to justify your no to your kid?

I know I do not and let be honest it is the failure of the parent if they refuse to say no!

So for me you do not need more laws but parents with a backbone that will say no to the child!

For the third or fourth time, I'm not talking about laws.

This is amazing.
.

Yes you were!

What else could you be talking about when you said gun reform which is a law that would need to be pass?

You mentioned it in your op!

Also to regulate the industries you want to attack would require laws to enforce so again you are talking about laws.

Tell your kid no and see if it make a difference!

 

[SeaGal]

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

I have to agree with those who say 'how many more inches?' We have laws regulating guns already - re: types, waiting periods, registrations, carrying...how many more inches will it take to prevent guns from being used to kill people?

Why does it have to be the burden of those who recognize the clear language of the 2nd to 'compromise' their right with those who'd like to repeal it?...or define the right as limited to weapons of the time when that requirement would be laughed at if applied to the First.

If your neighbor wants to place his fence 6 inches over the property line (on your property), do you compromise and allow him 3 inches?

 

[ChrisL]

So, you believe that my rights (which are inherent) are the cause of society collapsing? Interesting, but doubtful.

Huh?

I haven't come within 500 miles of that.

You're missing my point.
.

Well, you seem to be suggesting that my giving up a constitutional right would somehow "right" society. First of all, the biggest problem that we have is that there are too many people and hence too many scumbags in the world. The more people you have, the more scumbags you are going to have. I will keep my rights and my gun, thanks.

Again, no, I'm not. Holy crap.

Please see Post 12. That's the real source of our cultural decay.
.

The real source of cultural decay is there being too many people. There used to be a time when we had close knit communities where everyone knew everyone else's business, and there weren't fences everywhere. Nowadays, people put up fences to keep the neighborhood kids out. Why? Because there are too many of them. They don't even know one another. Neighbors don't get to know each other and watch out for one another. Small close knit communities are becoming more and more rare, and fences and barricades are becoming more and more common as our population continues to grow and grow and grow.

 

[ChrisL]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

My definition of reasonable likely differs from yours.

Why SHOULD I give an inch? Every time an inch is given, they come back in six months for another inch. Time to take the inches back.

I agree in general with your assessment of the culture.

It's a matter of priority. The culture is a much bigger issue to me. A law can be changed or removed.

As we wrestle over this, another hyper-violent video game is being played, another cop-killing song is being recorded, another bloody movie is being watched.
.

Okay, so I read this post #12, and I still don't see what this has to do with the 2nd amendment. Criminals will be criminals, whatever they might be motivated by.

 

[Mac1958]

I've already said it: Look at what your opponents do: Non-stop public pressure. No new laws, but societal pressure.

It's a heavy lift. We can choose to ignore/avoid it if we want. Meanwhile, you remain on the defensive, and the decay continues.

Trump could start the ball rolling with one (1) tweet.
.

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

I did not say give up at all!

I said it start at the home with us being adults and saying no!

Do you need a law to justify your no to your kid?

I know I do not and let be honest it is the failure of the parent if they refuse to say no!

So for me you do not need more laws but parents with a backbone that will say no to the child!

For the third or fourth time, I'm not talking about laws.

This is amazing.
.

Yes you were!

What else could you be talking about when you said gun reform which is a law that would need to be pass?

You mentioned it in your op!

Also to regulate the industries you want to attack would require laws to enforce so again you are talking about laws.

Tell your kid no and see if it make a difference!

Please see post 17.
Please see post 23.
Please see post 29.

I'm out of words.
.

 

[ChrisL]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

My definition of reasonable likely differs from yours.

Why SHOULD I give an inch? Every time an inch is given, they come back in six months for another inch. Time to take the inches back.

I agree in general with your assessment of the culture.

It's a matter of priority. The culture is a much bigger issue to me. A law can be changed or removed.

As we wrestle over this, another hyper-violent video game is being played, another cop-killing song is being recorded, another bloody movie is being watched.
.

The market will decide. You cannot legislate morality without totalitarianism, and we're not going that way. When people tire of it, it will go the other way quite naturally.

The market is definitely deciding, and here we are.
.

And by the way, I didn't say anything about legislating morality. A culture changes and decays within the rules, and that's why it's so difficult to reverse.

Look at how many changes we've seen that had nothing to do with legislation. This culture has become diseased over time and through our society, and that's the only way it can be healed. By "popular demand". Not with laws.
.

I agree with this post. How do you suggest we change the mindset of people in general though? Violence has ALWAYS been a part of our lives. It is an unfortunate part of life.

 

[ChrisL]

It's not as if violence in society is something new. I think that in the past, there was much more of it actually. If you were to look at society as a whole now as compared to ancient times, I think you would find that we have changed and grown a LOT when it comes to violence and violent behaviors, but humans are far from being perfect and there are always going to be crazy people and criminals among us, and the more people you have, the more of those kinds of people you have as well.

 

[Mac1958]

My definition of reasonable likely differs from yours.

Why SHOULD I give an inch? Every time an inch is given, they come back in six months for another inch. Time to take the inches back.

I agree in general with your assessment of the culture.

It's a matter of priority. The culture is a much bigger issue to me. A law can be changed or removed.

As we wrestle over this, another hyper-violent video game is being played, another cop-killing song is being recorded, another bloody movie is being watched.
.

The market will decide. You cannot legislate morality without totalitarianism, and we're not going that way. When people tire of it, it will go the other way quite naturally.

The market is definitely deciding, and here we are.
.

And by the way, I didn't say anything about legislating morality. A culture changes and decays within the rules, and that's why it's so difficult to reverse.

Look at how many changes we've seen that had nothing to do with legislation. This culture has become diseased over time and through our society, and that's the only way it can be healed. By "popular demand". Not with laws.
.

I agree with this post. How do you suggest we change the mindset of people in general though? Violence has ALWAYS been a part of our lives. It is an unfortunate part of life.

You do it the same way it got there: Through the culture, through popular demand, through raising expectations. By being patient and focused and consistent.

I've said this, multiple times.
.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

What can Donald John Trump say in a tweet that would not be met with hostility from the opposition?

1. Donald Trump made millions from the same industry that you want him to fight against, so in my personal opinion not happening.

2. The opposition will claim that any new laws against those industries is infringing on their freedoms, so what good would it do?

3. Let say you get laws pass to regulate those industries then it will create a new black market for those items and more laws will be needed and more laws and more laws, so again what is the point trying when you will fail?


-------

Again all this has to do with the home and adults being adults and that is where it should start before asking for more laws...

We can certainly all just give up and watch the decay continue.
.

I did not say give up at all!

I said it start at the home with us being adults and saying no!

Do you need a law to justify your no to your kid?

I know I do not and let be honest it is the failure of the parent if they refuse to say no!

So for me you do not need more laws but parents with a backbone that will say no to the child!

For the third or fourth time, I'm not talking about laws.

This is amazing.
.

Yes you were!

What else could you be talking about when you said gun reform which is a law that would need to be pass?

You mentioned it in your op!

Also to regulate the industries you want to attack would require laws to enforce so again you are talking about laws.

Tell your kid no and see if it make a difference!

Please see post 17.
Please see post 23.
Please see post 29.

I'm out of words.
.

See OP for your orginal words!

As SeaGal pointed out inches have been given, so how much more is needed to be given so the left can feel safe?

States like California has more regulations on Firearms than Texas and how many shootings happen there daily or how about Chicago?

It is not the gun culture that need to give, it is society that need to grow up for once and stop passing the buck for it failure to raise their kids properly!

So no I will not give another inch because to do so require more laws and when you have LEO failing to enforce the laws they have already, well no then for more restrictions on any of my Constitutional rights no matter the First to the Twenty-Six Amendment because you have enough inches on all sides to fix this society!

 

[ChrisL]

It's a matter of priority. The culture is a much bigger issue to me. A law can be changed or removed.

As we wrestle over this, another hyper-violent video game is being played, another cop-killing song is being recorded, another bloody movie is being watched.
.

The market will decide. You cannot legislate morality without totalitarianism, and we're not going that way. When people tire of it, it will go the other way quite naturally.

The market is definitely deciding, and here we are.
.

And by the way, I didn't say anything about legislating morality. A culture changes and decays within the rules, and that's why it's so difficult to reverse.

Look at how many changes we've seen that had nothing to do with legislation. This culture has become diseased over time and through our society, and that's the only way it can be healed. By "popular demand". Not with laws.
.

I agree with this post. How do you suggest we change the mindset of people in general though? Violence has ALWAYS been a part of our lives. It is an unfortunate part of life.

You do it the same way it got there: Through the culture, through popular demand, through raising expectations. By being patient and focused and consistent.

I've said this, multiple times.
.

You act as if this is something new. What did the ancient Romans do for entertainment?

 

[ChrisL]

It's a matter of priority. The culture is a much bigger issue to me. A law can be changed or removed.

As we wrestle over this, another hyper-violent video game is being played, another cop-killing song is being recorded, another bloody movie is being watched.
.

The market will decide. You cannot legislate morality without totalitarianism, and we're not going that way. When people tire of it, it will go the other way quite naturally.

The market is definitely deciding, and here we are.
.

And by the way, I didn't say anything about legislating morality. A culture changes and decays within the rules, and that's why it's so difficult to reverse.

Look at how many changes we've seen that had nothing to do with legislation. This culture has become diseased over time and through our society, and that's the only way it can be healed. By "popular demand". Not with laws.
.

I agree with this post. How do you suggest we change the mindset of people in general though? Violence has ALWAYS been a part of our lives. It is an unfortunate part of life.

You do it the same way it got there: Through the culture, through popular demand, through raising expectations. By being patient and focused and consistent.

I've said this, multiple times.
.

You are assuming that humans are inherently "good" but they are not. Not really. You are assuming that there aren't humans who enjoy violence, but there are.

 

[Mac1958]

Well folks, I'm sure your political & cultural opponents are very pleased with your responses.

 

[ChrisL]

Well folks, I'm sure your political & cultural opponents are very pleased with your responses.

I just don't see what it is that you want. I'm sure you aren't the only person who wants to ban violence. Lol. It's just not very realistic. You can ban one thing, but people can still get it, and they will if they want to. Also, there will be other things that take the place. You have to teach your kids and instill values and morals in them. That is another problem. Parents who want to have kids but don't really want to do any parenting. Because of advancements in technology, we have become much more lazy and dependent on gadgets to take care of our needs. There is really not much you can do to change these things though. It is called "progress."

 

[Mac1958]

Well folks, I'm sure your political & cultural opponents are very pleased with your responses.

I just don't see what it is that you want. I'm sure you aren't the only person who wants to ban violence. Lol. It's just not very realistic. You can ban one thing, but people can still get it, and they will if they want to. Also, there will be other things that take the place. You have to teach your kids and instill values and morals in them. That is another problem. Parents who want to have kids but don't really want to do any parenting. Because of advancements in technology, we have become much more lazy and dependent on gadgets to take care of our needs. There is really not much you can do to change these things though. It is called "progress."

For the tenth time, I did not say "ban" or "law".

Okay, never mind.
.

 

[ChrisL]

The only person you can change or make do anything is yourself. You can talk until you are blue in the face to some people, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Don't we all know this already? Go try and talk a 12-year-old into giving up his violent video games and we will see how far you get with that when he can get it and play it anywhere, any time he wants to.

 

[ChrisL]

Well folks, I'm sure your political & cultural opponents are very pleased with your responses.

I just don't see what it is that you want. I'm sure you aren't the only person who wants to ban violence. Lol. It's just not very realistic. You can ban one thing, but people can still get it, and they will if they want to. Also, there will be other things that take the place. You have to teach your kids and instill values and morals in them. That is another problem. Parents who want to have kids but don't really want to do any parenting. Because of advancements in technology, we have become much more lazy and dependent on gadgets to take care of our needs. There is really not much you can do to change these things though. It is called "progress."

For the tenth time, I did not say "ban" or "law".

Okay, never mind.
.

Well then, be more specific! What is it that you are suggesting? I am not the only one here who seems to be getting the wrong impression about your posts, so YOU need to say what it is you mean!