Gunny's Thread on Religion

[icyteru]

The smartest man alive says god isn't necessary. The universe always existed. I ain't that smart, figured that little ditty out for my self years ago. Surprise surprise. What IF God was one of us, just a slob like one of us? Hmm.

Wisdom and intelligence are two, totally different things, please don't use intelligence as your yard stick for leadership.

wisdom is more important than intelligence. especially in this religion forum.

 

[JoReba]

I'm giving fair warning straight - up. Any flames, insults or derailments will be deleted and/or moved. Call it what you want, but there you have it. I'm sick and tired of zealots destroying religious threads so no one else can even have a discussion.

Anyone who has a problem with that, tough.

Okay, discuss ....

Jesus said in Matthew 5:11-12, "Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all maner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

Did you have a problem with this ... ?

 

[LumpyPostage]

The greatest thing God did was create Al Gore so he could create the internet so all the best and brightest of humanity could solve all the world's issues on message boards.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The greatest thing God did was create Al Gore so he could create the internet so all the best and brightest of humanity could solve all the world's issues on message boards.

That completely fails to explain your presence here.

 

[Wiseacre]

Let me ask you guys a question: many people will blame religion for the atrocities committed in the name of some church, God, or faith. However, unless a religion actually requires violence, is it not really the fault of the human beings who commit atrocious acts in a misguided attempt to follow their beliefs? If a particular faith is supposed to be non-violent, is it right to blame that faith or religion in general if it's practicioners fail to follow the basic concepts of whatever they believe?

The teachings of Christ for example was supposed to be all about peace, love, mercy, and forgiveness. It's supposed to be non-violent, no matter what the Bible says somewhere in the Old Testament. So the deaths and tortures that occurred during the Inquisition under the auspices of the Catholic Church were contrary to the basic premises of Christianity; seems to me that is not the fault of religion or Christianity if some people, even many people, did terrible things in contravention of what the basic tenets are supposed to be. Kinda like a few US solders doing outragious things at that prison in Iraq, or committing rapes or stealing from the locals. Do we say the whole US Army or the USA itself is therefore responsible? No.

 

[GunZawga]

Let me ask you guys a question: many people will blame religion for the atrocities committed in the name of some church, God, or faith. However, unless a religion actually requires violence, is it not really the fault of the human beings who commit atrocious acts in a misguided attempt to follow their beliefs? If a particular faith is supposed to be non-violent, is it right to blame that faith or religion in general if it's practicioners fail to follow the basic concepts of whatever they believe?

The teachings of Christ for example was supposed to be all about peace, love, mercy, and forgiveness. It's supposed to be non-violent, no matter what the Bible says somewhere in the Old Testament. So the deaths and tortures that occurred during the Inquisition under the auspices of the Catholic Church were contrary to the basic premises of Christianity; seems to me that is not the fault of religion or Christianity if some people, even many people, did terrible things in contravention of what the basic tenets are supposed to be. Kinda like a few US solders doing outragious things at that prison in Iraq, or committing rapes or stealing from the locals. Do we say the whole US Army or the USA itself is therefore responsible? No.

So you agree the SAME should apply to the few hundred Muslims that read the old testament also?

 

[Wiseacre]

Can't say that I know a whole lot about Islam. It is said to be a religion of peace, so if a muslim commits acts of violence against others then IMHO he has contravened his own beliefs. In that sense, I think he is responsible for his actions and his religion is blameless. If an imam or someone in the muslim faith convinces the person to become a martyr and take as many lives as possible then that person is at fault also. I do not think it is a religion's fault of someone commits heinous acts in the name of their God knowing it is not the teachings of that religion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Let me ask you guys a question: many people will blame religion for the atrocities committed in the name of some church, God, or faith. However, unless a religion actually requires violence, is it not really the fault of the human beings who commit atrocious acts in a misguided attempt to follow their beliefs? If a particular faith is supposed to be non-violent, is it right to blame that faith or religion in general if it's practicioners fail to follow the basic concepts of whatever they believe?

The teachings of Christ for example was supposed to be all about peace, love, mercy, and forgiveness. It's supposed to be non-violent, no matter what the Bible says somewhere in the Old Testament. So the deaths and tortures that occurred during the Inquisition under the auspices of the Catholic Church were contrary to the basic premises of Christianity; seems to me that is not the fault of religion or Christianity if some people, even many people, did terrible things in contravention of what the basic tenets are supposed to be. Kinda like a few US solders doing outragious things at that prison in Iraq, or committing rapes or stealing from the locals. Do we say the whole US Army or the USA itself is therefore responsible? No.

When people blame religion instead of those actually responsible, they aren't taking a good look at what's going on.

 

[LumpyPostage]

Blame is easy. Self-reflection and personal responsibility are harder.

 

[Wiseacre]

Isn't that one of the atheists' biggest contentions, that religions are bad cuz so many people have been killed or tortured in the name of God? Where's the pushback, I'm saying here that religion itself is not to blame if human beings do terrible things using religion as a reason when in fact it's greed, envy, power, lust, whatever.

 

[Iridescence]

Let me ask you guys a question: many people will blame religion for the atrocities committed in the name of some church, God, or faith. However, unless a religion actually requires violence, is it not really the fault of the human beings who commit atrocious acts in a misguided attempt to follow their beliefs? If a particular faith is supposed to be non-violent, is it right to blame that faith or religion in general if it's practicioners fail to follow the basic concepts of whatever they believe?

The teachings of Christ for example was supposed to be all about peace, love, mercy, and forgiveness. It's supposed to be non-violent, no matter what the Bible says somewhere in the Old Testament. So the deaths and tortures that occurred during the Inquisition under the auspices of the Catholic Church were contrary to the basic premises of Christianity; seems to me that is not the fault of religion or Christianity if some people, even many people, did terrible things in contravention of what the basic tenets are supposed to be. Kinda like a few US solders doing outragious things at that prison in Iraq, or committing rapes or stealing from the locals. Do we say the whole US Army or the USA itself is therefore responsible? No.

Eh... yeah no. There are secrets and sects and secrets within sects and sects with secrets... Who is really the good guy? What one labels suits today's criminal may very well be tomorrow's hero. Who's most mentally fit for the battle? Perhaps that is the truest reason for anything called 'Religion'.

 

[LumpyPostage]

Isn't that one of the atheists' biggest contentions, that religions are bad cuz so many people have been killed or tortured in the name of God? Where's the pushback, I'm saying here that religion itself is not to blame if human beings do terrible things using religion as a reason when in fact it's greed, envy, power, lust, whatever.

I think the one thing atheists agree on is their belief that God doesn't exist. Pointing out the hypocrisy of some institutions wouldn't be a valid reason to go atheist. You can believe in God and still think your priest is a dick.

 

[Bill Angel]

Isn't that one of the atheists' biggest contentions, that religions are bad cuz so many people have been killed or tortured in the name of God? Where's the pushback, I'm saying here that religion itself is not to blame if human beings do terrible things using religion as a reason when in fact it's greed, envy, power, lust, whatever.

In the Soviet Union a lot of people were killed or tortured on behalf of Joseph Stalin, who was an atheist.

I think that the "pushback", as you term it is that Christianity asserts that ALL human beings have souls, and that all of these souls are of equal value in the eyes of God and Jesus Christ.
[this is one reason why conservative Christians are opposed to abortion]
Christianity rejects the concept of Social Darwinism, which is that if a society is strong enough to wipe out its enemy competitors, then that's OK, since survival of the fittest or strongest is the only thing that matters. If a society does brutal things out of feelings of greed and lust, that's OK as far as social Darwinism is concerned, as these brutal amoral actions are believed to result in a strengthening or greater "fitness" of this society, at the expense of the "weaker" elements of the population.

 

[Wiseacre]

The pushback I was talking about is from those who say religion is a bad thing because of all the terrible things that have been done through the ages in the name of one religion or another. I am suggesting that in most cases there might've been other motives at work and that some people may have used religion as an excuse for doing terrible things.

 

[Dr.Drock]

The pushback I was talking about is from those who say religion is a bad thing because of all the terrible things that have been done through the ages in the name of one religion or another. I am suggesting that in most cases there might've been other motives at work and that some people may have used religion as an excuse for doing terrible things.

I'm an atheist, religion is almost never the reason for killing it's just an excuse leaders use to motivate their subjects.

The biggest reasons people go to war are for power and/or resources/money.

But for the button pushers in history's warmongering, it's a lot easier to motivate your soldiers by saying "go kill them because you're a future resident of heaven and they're a future resident of hell!!!!!" rather than saying "go kill them because my empire isn't wide enough and my oil drum is getting low!!!!"

If all religions disappeared tomorrow, in my opinion it wouldn't affect the # of horrible things man does to each other.

 

[Avatar4321]

The pushback I was talking about is from those who say religion is a bad thing because of all the terrible things that have been done through the ages in the name of one religion or another. I am suggesting that in most cases there might've been other motives at work and that some people may have used religion as an excuse for doing terrible things.

I'm an atheist, religion is almost never the reason for killing it's just an excuse leaders use to motivate their subjects.

The biggest reasons people go to war are for power and/or resources/money.

But for the button pushers in history's warmongering, it's a lot easier to motivate your soldiers by saying "go kill them because you're a future resident of heaven and they're a future resident of hell!!!!!" rather than saying "go kill them because my empire isn't wide enough and my oil drum is getting low!!!!"

If all religions disappeared tomorrow, in my opinion it wouldn't affect the # of horrible things man does to each other.

In my humble opinion, if all religious disappeared tomorrow, man would wipe itself out.

 

[Iridescence]

I am not sure what is more scary.... a world striving for successful living by omitting God/god/whatever or a world demanding absolute recognition toward God and all gods deserving of worthy notice and worship. The 'delicate' balance seems necessary to me, but I'm yet the observer.

 

[Freedomlover]

God does not send a person to hell. He has given each person free will to make choices. The choices that person makes throughout their life to trust and obey God's commandments is just the beginning of the process to grow in His grace. Jesus said, " I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me". That phrase could not be any clearer!

Jesus also said in response to a question put to Him by the the Pharisees concenring which of the commandments was the greatest. In belief or non-belief this is where the rubber meets the road because Jesus' answer was "love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your might and with all your strength. And the second is to "love your neighbor as yourself." This is not a "holier than thou" attitude, it is the way God expects us to live our lives. If all who claim to be Christians would live this way, putting God first and self after one's neighbor the world would be a much better place!

God wants every person to go to heaven. We decide for ourselves if we are willing to live according to His command in order to go in that direction at the end of life. The choice is totally ours. God acts on what choice we make. In the New Testament it is taught that it is appointed unto man once to die and after that is the judgement. If there is no punishment there is no need for a judgement, but be assured a judgement day is coming for all of us. We will make an account of our life but the very first queation may be "What did you do with Jesus Christ?". Depending on what that answer is will determine the rest of your life accounting. The great news is that through Jesus our sin(s) can be forgiven and our lives reordered so that we live a life in accordance to the two greatest commandments that Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees. You may ask just these two, aren't there ten? Yes, but jesus pointed out that if we obey these two you will also be fulfilling the other eight because you will not want to violate those as you live day by day.

God is a God of love. He is also a God of judgement. Make the the right choice and you can partake of the former. If not, then we will fall under the latter. I hope you that read this make the right choice. Don't look at others and their faults and dimiss what God wants for all of us. Chistianity is a one by one faith. A person's salvation does not depend on parents, siblings, friends, churchgoers, or anything else but our PERSONAL relationship with God through His Son. Don't be critical of those who do things you do not like in the name of religion. They are answerable to God, it is not our place to judge but only to love.

 

[Ame®icano]

I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.

It's a sad thing to say but there have been more people killed on planet Earth in the name of God than for any other reason.

That is a totally false statement.

Tens of millions of people were killed in both WWI and WWII. And it had zero to do with religion.

Also, tens of millions of people were killed and murdered during both the Russian and Chineese communist revolutions and subsequent takeovers.

And again, it had zero to do with religion, because the revolutions were led by secular atheists.

Well, those secular atheist dont believe in god, but they do have a religion.

Communism.

 

[Avatar4321]

hi,
i'm new here,
can you tell me about this forum?

That many of the guys will enjoy your posts.