Gunny's Thread on Religion

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Gunny, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    I'm giving fair warning straight - up. Any flames, insults or derailments will be deleted and/or moved. Call it what you want, but there you have it. I'm sick and tired of zealots destroying religious threads so no one else can even have a discussion.

    Anyone who has a problem with that, tough.

    Okay, discuss ....
     
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  2. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 USMB Mod Staff Member

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    I only have two words to say on the matter:

    Whoo hoo!
     
  3. Harry Dresden
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    Harry Dresden Latinum, Plantinum,Silver,Gold Member Supporting Member

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    if religion works for you and it gives you inner peace helps you through the day,helps you through times of adversity and bad times....bless ya...go for it....i just dont like those who think because they believe in something and someone else may not,they are somehow better,and dont seem to mind letting those people know.....OR the religious zealots,who go WAY overboard with it,and carry it to the extreme....
     
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  4. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    I mostly agree. I don't like religious zealots anymore than I do anti-religion zealots. One believes in believing and one believes in disbelieving. I've heard a lot of arguments -- mostly dismissals and/or insults that disbelieving is not a belief.

    I disagree. If you ACTIVELY are pushing your belief that there is no God, or whatever anyone worships, then it is a belief. One has to choose to believe or disbelieve. If one goes so far as to hate religion and have to say so, one most certainly is as ardent a zealot as a revival tent preacher.

    I really don't care what others believe. My whole issue with the topic is that no one seems to be able to have a decent conversation about religion on this board without being attacked. Granted, we're pretty lax here, but as of late, this subforum has gotten completely out of control. This isn't the Flame Zone II.
     
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  5. Agnapostate
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    Agnapostate BANNED

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    I'm of course an apostate and an atheist, but I don't believe most secular individuals have an interest in interfering with the personal beliefs of the religious if they merely remained personal beliefs, just as most secular individuals don't have an interest in interfering with the beliefs of those who embrace astrology or other superstition not based on reason. It's because the beliefs of the religious exert an undue influence over mainstream society (we might still have a World Trade Center if not for religion) that objections are raised. As noted:

    [​IMG]

    I've not encountered anyone who has an interest in attacking religious belief simply because they consider it irrational or baseless; many beliefs retain such elements. It's because religious belief has traditionally primarily adopted the role of the basis of an openly hierarchical institution (the Roman Catholic inquisition, excessively theocratic Islamic states today, etc.), or the basis of other negative influences that have the effect of causing intrusions into non-religious elements of life, as noted by the cartoon, that there is opposition.
     
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  6. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Moved From: http://www.usmessageboard.com/relig...bout-religion-no-insults-allowed-threa-3.html

     
  7. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    I know what you mean. I know some of those "holier than thou" kind of folks. It's a turn off. I don't stand on street corners and try to convert the world into my way of thinking. I also don't like the so-called "score keepers" at church. These are the folks who count heads every Sunday and wonder where you are if you aren't there. There have always been those that raise a large amount of hell on Saturday night and on Sunday morning suddenly become a full-blown saint. Those folks are a turn off too. Religion to me is more of a personal thing. I go to church when I feel the need to go and I toss money into the pot to support the church. However, I am not there every time they open the door.
     
  8. iagainsti
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    iagainsti Member

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    I'm reposting this from the "logical, rational, and reasonable debate" thread:

    I think this might be a good place to pose a few questions to the religious people who are participating in this discussion.

    So, for Christians, it's a given that those who do not believe that Jesus Christ was the messiah and died for their sins (meaning: all those who are not Christian, even Jews and Muslims who believe in the same god) are going to hell, which is a place where they will be separated from God and be tortured with fire and brimstone for all of eternity (although there are some Biblical scholars who believe that the Bible actually teaches that nonbelievers will be completely destroyed, but that's a whole other discussion). Please correct me if any of that is wrong.

    It is also a given that God created man in his own image, and loves and takes a special interest in each and every one of the people he created. God's love for man is emphasized throughout Christianity.

    Now, the word of God is revealed to us through the Bible. As God no longer makes his presence known the way he did in Biblical days, the Bible is the only direct communication we have from God. It is his word, written by him through man, and contains all the information we need in order to know what it takes to be saved. (Again, please correct me if any of this is wrong)

    Here are some facts about the Bible and about the world today, from my understanding: the Bible was written (in installments) about two millenia ago, in a particular language (Hebrew) to a particular group of people. There is a story in the Bible about the Tower of Babel, in which God punishes mankind for trying to build a tower tall enough to reach Heaven by scattering them across the earth and splitting their languages. So, according to the Bible, the reason that we have about 7,000 different languages spoken on the planet today is because God made it so as a punishment. Because the Bible must be translated into so many different languages from its original Hebrew, and since the Hebrew language has changed and evolved so much in the last two thousand years, as all languages do, many things in the Bible are lost, confused, or the meaning changed in translation.

    So, these are the questions I have for you:

    God created us all and loves us all immensely. Any of us who do not believe in him will be doomed to suffer for all of eternity. Is there a way to reconcile those two ideas? Is eternal horrendous suffering a punishment that is fitting of the crime of not believing in the existence of God? Why would a loving God base the salvation of his creations on their belief in him, rather than their character or morality or some other criteria?

    Also: is it fair that since the punishment for nonbelief is eternal torment, God made it so difficult to come to believe in him? Would he not be morally obligated to make his existence painfully obvious to each and every one of us, if the consequences for not believing in him are so severe?

    I am not asking these questions as some sort of challenge; these are legitimate questions I have about Christianity and they are some of the main reasons why I do not believe. My mind is open to the existence of a higher power...I just don't believe that the higher power in question is the one I desrcribed above. But my mind isn't even completely closed to THAT possibility, since I acknowledge it's possible that there are things I don't fully understand...which is why I'm posing these questions, in hopes that someone can give me a good explanation for the discrepancies I feel I'm seeing here.

    And, again, if I am wrong in any of those above assertions, please correct me. If I'm going to believe or disbelieve in something, I want to know the absolute truth about that something first.
     
  9. JBeukema
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    JBeukema BANNED

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    'Prove it
    Perhaps, once you demonstrate what it is

    and therefore not on reason or logical deductions.

    You bear the burden of proof. Prove I am not god. i might as well say to prove that there's no such thing ads the tooth fairy. Prove that Krishna and FSM do not exist.

    Then the religious should stop acting like it's based on reason or any kind of intelligent thought process.

    Prove it

    You never did demonstrate that

    Prove it

    Prove that hell and the soul exist, and that a soul can be in hell

    Prove it

    Proof? Demonstrate that your assertions are valid.
     
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  10. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    It's a sad thing to say but there have been more people killed on planet Earth in the name of God than for any other reason. Seems like everybody thinks their religion is "the only one" and everybody else is a heathen. That is the one thing that has always puzzled me about religion. Every major religion professes that if you don't believe their doctrine that you won't make it into heaven. Ok, if this is true, who has the right rule book? I find more comfort in what my Grandmother used to say about there will be some of all in God's heaven... But back to all of the killing in the name of God. All of the major religions are guilty of it. Too bad. It's a shame world history has tossed this at us all.
     

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