The Logical, Rational, and Reasonable Debate About Religion: No Insults Allowed Threa

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Coloradomtnman, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    The title says it all, so, please refrain from name calling, disrespect, or insults of any kind.

    Also, since this debate is framed as logical and rational, please understand that supporting your arguments with anecdotal evidence is not reasonable, convincing, or conclusive and will and should just be ignored.

    Let me just kick it off with: There is no physical evidence of God. Intelligent Design has been debunked. The only proof that supports the Bible is historical. And since, if He exists, He bestowed to me the ability to think, to make logical conclusions, to be rational, to reason, and free will with which to choose, then, honestly, why would I choose (if one can claim that it IS a choice) to believe in Him when there is nothing conclusive to support His existence?
     
  2. Tinktink
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    I just have one question, how can anyone have a logic, Rational debate on something that can't be proved or disproved locigally or rationally. No offense intended with that question by the way.

    Science can't disprove belief to a believer. Believers can't prove belief to science.

    Now that being said, there is no physical evidence Love exsists, but millions of people will die defending it. I think faith is a matter of heart, not a matter of science, logic and rational, therefore no more proveable then Love, but just as real and defendable to those that believe in it. Just my opinion.
     
  3. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    A valid point.

    However, based upon the Christian philosophy that God endowed us with free will and with that free will we should choose to believe in God through Jesus Christ, and that since we were created by God and embued with the powers of reason and rational thought, why would one 'choose' to believe in something that can't be proven to be factual or real? It isn't reasonable to believe in everything the heart and imagination comes up with and maintain a perception of reality that is as closely aligned with truth as humans can attempt to attain and understand.
     
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  4. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    God is a spirit. Can you measure a spirit?

    If you cannot understand that concept then you cannot understand why others believe, what they have seen or experienced. Why debate it? One either believes or does not believe. Simple.
     
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  5. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    I think you're right about that, RodISHI. But I am having trouble reconciling something and perhaps you can explain it for me:

    If I don't believe, and its not a matter of choice, as is implied by your statement above and bolded, (so its not that I don't want to believe so much as I can't believe - which is the truth from my perspective) then will I go to Hell if it turns out that God does exist? And doesn't that contradict the "free will" philosophy of Christianity and the purpose of Christ's sacrifice?
     
  6. Big Black Dog
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    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Belief in God is based solely on faith. There is no "physical" evidence that you can lay your hand on to prove that God exists. You have to take Him on faith. I agree that you cannot "prove" that God exists BUT can you prove that God does not exist solely on your word alone? You can neither prove or disprove the existance of God. It's all based on faith.
     
  7. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    first. Do you understand what hell is?
     
  8. Tinktink
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    Good question. I can't answer that, as I am not religious, and would be curious to hear what has to be said regarding it. In God's endowment of folks, didn't God also gift man with imagination? And wouldn't that choice to believe in God be based on that?
     
  9. Tinktink
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    Good point, Colo. If God gives free will, why would God punish someone for using it to not believe. I get your debate now. Doesn't sound logical to claim free will is given, when in reality it isn't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2009
  10. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    It is not reasonable to prove that something "doesn't exist"; were I to attempt to prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, I would have as much success as proving that Allah, Sri Krsna, Zeus, and Zoraster don't exist. It doesn't make sense to prove something "doesn't exist".

    About faith: why would I choose to have faith in God? Why would I choose the Christian god over the Muslim or Hindu, or any other gods? And how does one choose to have faith?
     

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