gun stores and gun shows are not where criminals get their guns...

[2aguy]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

 

[2aguy]

And more from the article...


Local people buy guns out of state, sometimes on behalf of gangs. R32: “Six out of 10 times, people go out of state and brings them back. ” R69: “The gang leaders, they’ll choose and pick who to goout and get the guns and bring ’em back.” There is also somemention of outsiders who bring guns into the neighborhood, either from other neighborhoods in Chicago, or from out of state. R8: “Iknow the person, they purchase a lotta guns, it’s called a crate” (which are then distributed within “the organization”). R85: “Some people getting on a train and bring them back, can be up to 5 or 6 guns depending on how much risk they want to take.”

What is important to note is that the behavior outlined by these statements is already illegal. Selling handguns across state lines without a license is a federal felony, making false statements to the police (“I lost it!”) is a crime, and the state of Illinois makes it illegal to sell a gun to someone without at least verifying their FOID card. In short, Illinois already has a universal background check law in place, but the criminals are already completely ignoring it and continuing to get their guns.

 

[MaryL]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

There is a black market in guns, and any opportunity to acquire them is used. Straw buyers that buy and in turn sell them under the table, from guns stores or from guns shows. Where do you folks suppose criminals get guns? They click their ruby slippers together and POOF they magically appear? There is a whole dark underground tied to dealers. What can we do to nip the supply of illegal black market guns in the bud?

 

[2aguy]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

There is a black market in guns, and any opportunity to acquire them is used. Straw buyers that buy and in turn sell them under the table, from guns stores or from guns shows. Where do you folks suppose criminals get guns? They click their ruby slippers together and POOF they magically appear? There is a whole dark underground tied to dealers. What can we do to nip the supply of illegal black market guns in the bud?

What gun grabbers don't care about understanding is that criminals will always get the guns they want or need.....all they care about is stopping law abiding people from getting guns. We know where they get their guns...how do you nip the supply in the bud...arrest criminals when they are caught with guns.....end of story. That is all you have to do. No need to license gun owners or register guns. If you catch a criminal committing a crime with a gun, arrest them, lock them up. If you catch a felon just owning a gun, you can arrest them..right now, and lock them up.

The problem...as revealed again by the Chicago Police Superintendent.....prosecutors and judges are not locking up gun criminals...they are letting them go....he just said that yesterday.

If you want to scare the few criminals away from gun shows....send in cops, have them set up tables and sell guns...wait for people who admit they can't pass background checks, sell them the gun......and arrest them.

Send cops around with guns and offer to sell them "outside" in the parking lot. If someone who can't own the gun buys the gun.....arrest them.

Send in cops as buyers. Tell vendors and private sellers they want to buy the gun but can't pass the background check...if the seller still sells the gun....arrest them, lock them up.

That is how you do it...the only way that actually works against bad guys....if bad guys are the ones you really want to stop......

Right now, gun grabbers only want to stop normal people from owning guns....that is why they focus on licensing, registration, magazine limits and background checks....none of which stops criminals or mass shooters...but can be used to make it more expensive and legally risky for normal people.

 

[FA_Q2]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

There is a black market in guns, and any opportunity to acquire them is used. Straw buyers that buy and in turn sell them under the table, from guns stores or from guns shows. Where do you folks suppose criminals get guns? They click their ruby slippers together and POOF they magically appear? There is a whole dark underground tied to dealers. What can we do to nip the supply of illegal black market guns in the bud?

Nothing.

We are already doing what we can - selling these weapons is illegal and carrying them is also illegal. We find and prosecute them whenever we can.

The fact is that more 'gun control' will not change the state of things.

 

[August West]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

"normal people"? You? LOL There`s a couple gun owners that post here that are normal and you`re not one of them. Morning to night it`s guns, guns and more guns. Seek help.

 

[JakeStarkey]

More than 2 million denials in twenty years, bub.

Yeah, those who should not have guns were turned down.

 

[MikeK]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

 

[charwin95]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows? I've been to a couple of gun shows and I can't believe what I was seeing.

 

[MikeK]

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows? I've been to a couple of gun shows and I can't believe what I was seeing.

Please be more specific. I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[2aguy]

A small study of Cook County jail birds asks where they get their guns......

Study: Criminals Don't Use the "Gun Show Loophole" to Get Their Guns - The Truth About Guns

People with an FOID card supply others. R17 opined that “All they need is one person who got a gun card in the ‘hood’ and everybody got one.” R58 noted that people with gun cards buy guns, report them stolen, and then resell them. “That’s how we get them person-ally ourselves.”

See...criminals will get guns when they want or need them. They get them just as easily in France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, and Australia as they do here..........

And the truth.....we do not need to license gun owners or register guns. When you catch a gun criminal you can lock them up already. If you catch one of these gang members with the gun, they can't own them legally and when caught with the gun they can go directly to jail...right now...without licensing anyone or registering any guns.

But that isn't what concerns gun grabbers....they just want to make sure normal people can't have guns because they can use the law to punish those people. Normal people will obey the law...so if a gun grabber can pass a law, only the normal people will obey it...and that is just fine with the gun grabbers.

"normal people"? You? LOL There`s a couple gun owners that post here that are normal and you`re not one of them. Morning to night it`s guns, guns and more guns. Seek help.

Hmmm…fuck you asswipe…with all due respect.

 

[2aguy]

More than 2 million denials in twenty years, bub.

Yeah, those who should not have guns were turned down.

Almost all of them normal people, who had to go through a whole process to get their guns….while the criminals got them in an hour on the street.

 

[2aguy]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows? I've been to a couple of gun shows and I can't believe what I was seeing.

One, because it is a myth….all gun show vendors have to submit buyers to current federal background checks. What the anti gun activists mean by "Gun show loophole" is that private people at the gun shows selling guns to other individuals outside in the parking lot. They do not have to do a background check. The key thing……if they are willing to sell a gun to someone outside, and that person tells them they can't pass a background check, and still sells them the gun…..there is nothing you can do unless you catch them in the act.

Gun shows can be bypassed by criminals the same way they are bypassed at gun stores…they send in a family member or friend or someone willing to go through the background check and pass it, and then buy the gun and sell it or give it to the criminal……nothing that has been proposed will change that tactic.

It is the dishonesty of the anti gun activists about gun shows that is the problem.

 

[2aguy]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows? I've been to a couple of gun shows and I can't believe what I was seeing.

Here is some info. on gun shows….This discusses how the gun show myth got started…..

NRA Debunks Bogus Universal Background Check Justification - The Truth About Guns


I want to caution you against repeating that claim. The facts are below.

• Media outlets including the Richmond Times-Dispatchand the Washington Post have concluded that this claim is false. Washington Post gave the claim 3 out of 4 Pinochios for being way off target.

• Most of the survey covered sales before there was a federal background check system.

• The 1994 survey was conducted eight months after the Brady Act went into effect, mandating background checks on individuals seeking to buy firearms from federally licensed dealers. Survey participants were asked about their gun acquisitions going back two years. Some of the participants likely made gun purchases before the Brady Act, when they were not required to undergo federal background checks.

• Self-reports are inherently unreliable – not actual data of sales.

• Only a small group of gun owners — 251 people — answered the survey question about the origin of their weapons. Some of the gun owners were not sure how they had gotten their guns, answering “probably” or “probably not” on whether they got the gun from a licensed firearm dealer.

• Additionally, the federal survey simply asked buyers if they thought they were buying from a licensed firearms dealer. While all Federal Firearm Licensees (FFLs) do background checks, only those perceived as being FFLs were counted. Yet, there is much evidence that survey respondents who went to the smallest FFLs, especially the “kitchen table” types, had no idea that the dealer was actually “licensed.” Many buyers seemed to think that only “brick and mortar” stores were licensed dealers, and so the survey underestimating the number of sales covered by the checks.

• The researchers gave this number for all transactions, including gifts, not just “sales.” Count only guns that were bought, traded, borrowed, rented, issued as a job requirement or won through raffles, and 85 percent went through federally licensed gun dealers; just 15 percent would’ve been transferred without a background check.

• Economist John Lott, the author of several landmark studies on the real-world impact of gun control, has concluded that if you take out transfers of guns either between FFLs or between family members, the remaining number of transfers falls to about 10 percent. Lott stated, “We don’t know the precise number today, but it is hard to believe that it is above single digits.” (Op-Ed: The truth on background checks | Buckeye Firearms Association)

 

[M14 Shooter]

What can we do to nip the supply of illegal black market guns in the bud?

It's a black market.
By definition, you cannot regulate it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows?

There is no "loophole" at gun shows -- the relevant laws apply there exactly the same as they do everywhere else.

 

[JakeStarkey]

More than 2 million denials in twenty years, bub.

Yeah, those who should not have guns were turned down.

Almost all of them normal people, who had to go through a whole process to get their guns….while the criminals got them in an hour on the street.

You can't prove they all were normal or most of them were normal. You can't prove criminals did not try to get them there; the numbers defeat you. You can't prove all criminals get all guns off the street.

You simply bloviate.

 

[dannyboys]

Eastern european arms manufacturers provide Mexican drug cartels with cheap, really cheap, like five bucks per handguns. The drug cartels pay for the guns with drugs. The arms manufacturers sell the drugs to the European drug dealers. The Mexicans sell the cheap hand guns to inner city gangs who sell them to the neighborhood kids. Along with the guns the cartels sell heroin etc to the inner city thug gangs.
The only way for the inner city drug addicts to pay for the drugs and guns is to commit crimes, like robbery and local drug dealing.
It's a very well oiled big international wheel that goes round and round and the only losers are the inner city residents who have to lock up their fucking garbage cans so they won't get stolen.
All this BS about people with gun purchase permits buying hundreds of handguns at gun shows is just that. Yes that used to happen a few years ago but the Eastern european arms manufacturers and the Mexican drug cartels took over the market and now traffic in 95% of the illegal handguns in the inner cities.
The cops have seized pretty much all the authentic S&W's for instance. Now imitation Bryco semi-autos can be bought 'used' for twenty bucks. One clip. Fire off the clip and trade the now-useless gun to a ten year old future gang-banger for a BJ from his twelve year old sister.

 

[2aguy]

Something which is rarely if every mentioned is the majority of illegal guns taken off the streets are not the kind of quality one finds at gun shows and in gun stores. Rather they are cheap foreign knock-offs which are smuggled in shipping containers and across both borders.

Okay that's fine but why are you and 2aguy against or scared closing the loophole in gun shows? I've been to a couple of gun shows and I can't believe what I was seeing.

And the truth is, anti gun activists want to shut down gun shows.

Fewer than 1 percent of state prison inmates obtained their guns at the time of offense from gun shows, costs of regulations exceed benefits - Crime Prevention Research Center

Gun show regulations do have a cost. Almost everyone all those stopped by background checks are false positives — a law-abiding citizen who shouldn’t have been stopped. Other delays extend beyond the length of the gun show — the delays can usually take up to three business days to clear and gun shows only last for two days over a weekend. So even if you buy a gun at the very beginning of a gun show (say Saturday morning), the federal government has until Tuesday morning before a seller is allowed to complete the sale, but by that time the people who have traveled all the way to the show are long gone. For 2002 to 2006, 92 percent of checks were completed during the initial call by the dealer. About 3 percent of background checks take up to two hours to complete. Another 2 percent take up to 3 business days and 3 percent take 3 full business days. Even a two hour delay can mean the difference between whether the a sales occurs. After all, the next stage of the background check won’t begin until the first business day, which will be after the gun show has packed up and left. That implies that if you try waiting in hopes that the delay will only take two hours, there is a 63 percent chance that you will wait the 2 hours and still not be able to get the gun.

Forcing the gun dealer to wait on the telephone for up to a couple of hours means that the dealer can’t be making other gun sales.

A third problem is that there apparently more breakdowns occurring in the computer background check system. When the system breaks down no sales can be completed. Under the Clinton administration, the system was down for about 6 days each month. That problem essentially disappeared during the Bush administration, but it appears to be back under Obama, though the administration no longer keeps detailed data on how long these delays are.

One consequence of these delays is that gun show background checks on private sales are associated with about a 20 percent drop in the number of gun shows.

And at the heart of the matter….guns are legal products, and they are used by normal, law abiding people to stop violent criminal attacks every single day.

 

[2aguy]

More than 2 million denials in twenty years, bub.

Yeah, those who should not have guns were turned down.

Almost all of them normal people, who had to go through a whole process to get their guns….while the criminals got them in an hour on the street.

You can't prove they all were normal or most of them were normal. You can't prove criminals did not try to get them there; the numbers defeat you. You can't prove all criminals get all guns off the street.

You simply bloviate.

Yes….yes they can…..

John Lott's Website: The Problem with Brady Background Checks: Virtually all of those denied purchasing a gun are false positives

Take the numbers for 2009, the latest year with data available. There were 71,010 initial denials. Of those, only 4,681, or 6.6 percent, were referred to the BATF field offices for further investigation. As a report on these denials by the U.S. Department of Justice indicates, “The remaining denials (66,329 – 93%) did not meet referral guidelines or were overturned after review by Brady Operations or after the FBI received additional information.” The last two of these three categories are clearly false positives. The first might involve false positives, but it is possible that the disqualifying offenses are too old (though there are some prosecutions that involve misdemeanor violations that are four decades old so that isn't too obvious). To put it differently, the initial review didn’t find that these individuals had a record that prevented them from buying a gun. (Numbers for 2010 are available here.)

Still that isn’t the end of the story. Of these 4,681 referrals, over 51 percent, or 2,390 cases, involve “delayed denials,” cases where a check hasn’t even been completed. Of the rest, 2,291 covered cases where initial reviews indicated that the person should have been denied buying a gun. But the government admits that upon further review another 572 of these referrals were found “not [to be] a prohibited person,” leaving about 4,154 cases. That implies an initial false positive rate of roughly 94.2%. And it still doesn’t mean that the government hasn’t made a mistake on the remaining cases. In some cases for example, a person’s criminal record was supposed to be expunged, and it had not been?