CDZ Gun Free Zones - Whats that all about ?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Tommy Tainant, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Wildcard
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    :blahblah: Wrong Again!!!

    It's not my fault that you can't handle the "facts". :cuckoo:

    And yet you believe in posting crap with no proof.

    LOL!!!
     
  2. evenflow1969
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    Some one back when people were reasonable decided that drunks and school lkids are not very bright and decided keeping guns from them may cut down on shootings. This was the veiw of conservatives at one time too. There was a time that every one realized drunks and kids are trouble, some how we lost that logic. I do not know may be it is all the opiates in every ones blood streem. Of course we use to make our kids do chores and go out side with out bubble wrap on also. Now we have a generation of kids that mommy and daddy has done every thing for and have no life experience what so ever and we expect them to act like adults.
     
  3. Windparadox
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    `
    It doesn't seem to be a deterrent, leastways, not to psychotic people.
    `
     
  4. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Wrong.....that is a lie.....the anti gunners conflate guns in the home with democrat gun free zone public spaces....lying to the uninformed to make them believe that gun free zones aren't a problem.

    Uninformed Americans know that a democrat gun free zone is a public space that is legally declared a gun free zone for law abiding gun owners......
     
  5. 2aguy
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    Mass shooters do seek out democrat gun free zones. We know this from the interviews with surviving mass shooters and from the notes of dead mass shooters.

    Criminals also seek out gun free zones when they rob houses...that is why they break into unoccupied homes at greater rates here than in say, Britain, or Australia where they don't care if people are home, because they don't have guns.
     
  6. C_Clayton_Jones
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    Mythical ‘gun free’ zones aren’t an ‘incentive’ for gun crime and violence, either.

    In places where guns are prohibited as a matter of law – such as police stations and courthouses – there exists ample security measures to deter gun crime and violence.

    However, just because a business owner designates his property to be ‘gun free,’ in a shopping mall or department store, doesn’t prevent patrons from carrying concealed firearms anyway.

    Indeed, a ‘gun free’ business owner has no idea his customers are carrying guns because they’re being carried concealed – hence the myth of ‘gun free’ zones.

    Moreover, the idea of a mass shooter ‘researching’ to find mythical ‘gun free’ venues where he might commit his crime uninterrupted by armed citizens is as ridiculous as it is wrong.

    Last, there is no documented evidence in support of the notion that armed citizens would be able to ‘neutralize’ a mass shooter or gun crime incident, nor is there any evidence that armed citizens act as a ‘deterrent’ to gun crime and violence.

    Citizens have the individual right to carry concealed firearms pursuant to lawful self-defense – in the defense of themselves and immediate friends and family members; not to act in the capacity of ‘law enforcement,’ or to otherwise ‘fight crime.’
     
  7. 2aguy
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    Wow.....you have no idea what you are talking about.

    We have actual statements from living mass shooters...and notes from dead mass shooters that state....state....that they chose their targets based on their gun free zone status.....

    And police stations are not gun free zones since 95% of the employees there are carrying guns on their hips and AR-15 civilian rifles in their cars or in their building......the actual gun free zones that you try to hide, are schools, churches, malls, theaters.........where normal, law abiing people can't carry their legal guns, and where you don't have 95% of the staff carrying guns and keeping AR-15 civilian rifles .....

    And private businesses that put up gun free zone signs? If you are caught in one of these places with a gun you face at a minimum a misdemeanor and at the far end a felony....all based on the cop who arrests you and which prosecutor you get.....so carrying a concealed gun into these gun free zones creates a risk to your family .......that is why criminals know they are more than likely to be gun free....

    Moreover, the idea of a mass shooter ‘researching’ to find mythical ‘gun free’ venues where he might commit his crime uninterrupted by armed citizens is as ridiculous as it is wrong.

    What are you talking about? We have actual statements from actual mass shooters, Colorado, Santa Barbara, South Carolina where they stated they chose their targets for their gun free status....and from the notes of dead mass shooters, the Sandy Hook shooter.....

    Here......try to actually know what you are talking about...

    http://crimepreventionresearchcente...e-most-vulnerable-the-case-of-elliot-rodgers/

    With all the discussions about mental illness, one has to understand how much care and planning these killers engage in. Here is something from Elliot Rodger’s manifesto that no one seems to understand the importance of:

    The first thing I had to consider was the exact date it will take place. Valentine’s Day would have been very fitting, since it was the holiday that made me feel the most miserable and insulted, the holiday in which young couples celebrated their happy lives together. The problem was that Valentine’s Day was only a month away. I needed more time than that. Also, on Valentine’s Day most young couples will be spread out in various restaurants in the city instead of being packed together at parties in Isla Vista. Another option was Deltopia, a day in which many young people pour in from all over the state to have a spring break party on Del Playa Street. I figured this would be the perfect day to attack Isla Vista, but after watching Youtube videos of previous Deltopia parties, I saw that there were way too many cops walking around on such an event. It would be impossible to kill enough of my enemies before being dispatched by those damnable cops.

    Rodger was apparently planning this attack for over 1.5 years, and this planning is quite common. During the fall of 2012, when he was 21-years-old he wrote:

    At this point, it fully dawned on me that the possibility of having to resort to exacting this Retribution was more real than ever before. Without the prospect of becoming wealthy at a young age, I had nothing to live for now. I was going to be a virgin outcast forever. I realized that I had to start planning and preparing for the Day of Retribution, even though I hadn’t yet had any idea of what day that would be. . . .

    The recent Aurora, Colorado Batman movie theater and Sikh Temple shootings are by no means the first times that killers targeted gun-free zones. Few appreciate that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, was following Colorado legislation that would have let citizens carry a concealed handgun. Presumably, he feared being stopped during his attack by someone with a weapon. In fact, the Columbine attack occurred the very day that final passage was scheduled.

    And the killers’ concern that they would be stopped before many people were killed is justified. Many mass public shootings have been stopped by permit holders. Look at some of the cases: Shootings at schools were stopped before police arrived in such places as Pearl, Miss., and Edinboro, Pa., and at colleges like the Appalachian Law School in Virginia. Or consider attacks in busy downtowns such as Memphis; churches such as the New Life Church in Colorado Springs; malls in Portland, Ore., and Salt Lake City; or outside an apartment building in Oklahoma.


    Colorado theater shooter....


    Notes on the James Holmes Batman Movie Theater Shooting case Maximize killing and Deterrence matters for these mass killers - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org

    Notes on the James Holmes Batman Movie Theater Shooting case: Maximize killing and Deterrence matters for these mass killers


    This past week we finally got a look at the diary of the Batman movie theater killer, James Holmes, and it was clear that he was considering both attacking an airport and a movie theater. But he turned down the airport option because he was concerned about their “substantial security.

    While Holmes’ diary was no where near as detailed as Elliot Rodger’s, the Santa Barbara killer from last year, it still shows that he was concerned about avoiding people who might stop his attack.

    Dr. William Reid, a state-appointed psychiatrist who performed Holmes’ sanity evaluation, had these comments:

    — “Reid said the gunman picked a show in the movie theater that was going to be packed”

    — “Holmes said he looked at what other mass killers did but didn’t compare it. He said he just learned from what they did — specifically, ‘don’t shoot police or they will kill you.'”


    Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns?

    Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned. In Colorado, individuals with permits can carry concealed handgun in most malls, stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. But private businesses can determine whether permit holders can carry guns on their private property.

    Most movie theaters allow permit holders carrying guns. But the Cinemark movie theater was the only one with a sign posted at the theater’s entrance.

    A simple web search and some telephone calls reveal how easily one can find out how Cinemark compared to other movie theaters. According to mapquest.com and movies.com, there were seven movie theaters showing "The Dark Knight Rises" on July 20th within 20 minutes of the killer’s apartment at 1690 Paris St, Aurora, Colorado. At 4 miles and an 8-minute car ride, the Cinemark’s Century Theater wasn't the closest. Another theater was only 1.2 miles (3 minutes) away.

    There was also a theater just slightly further away, 10 minutes. It is the "home of Colorado's largest auditorium," according to their movie hotline greeting message. The potentially huge audience ought to have been attractive to someone trying to kill as many people as possible. Four other theaters were 18 minutes, two at 19 minutes, and 20 minutes away. But all of those theaters allowed permitted concealed handguns.

    So why would a mass shooter pick a place that bans guns? The answer should be obvious, though it apparently is not clear to the media – disarming law-abiding citizens leaves them as sitting ducks




    FBI: Dearborn Heights ISIS supporter planned to attack Detroit church

    In conversation's between Abu-Rayyan and the undercover agent, Abu-Rayyan described his desire to commit a martyrdom operation.

    The complaint filed in federal court doesn’t specify which Detroit church he was allegedly planning to attack, only that it was close and could seat 6,000 members.

    The complaint quotes Abu-Rayyan saying:

    “It's easy, and a lot of people go there. Plus people are not allowed to carry guns in church. Plus it would make the news. Everybody would've heard. Honestly I regret not doing it. If I can't do jihad in the Middle East, I would do my jihad over here."

    He had also told the undercover agent that a church would be an easy target because people are not allowed to carry guns there and that it would make the news.
    ----------------
    Minnesota…...

    Teen made bombs, stockpiled guns in prep for Minnesota school massacre: police

    The unhinged teen told cops, after being busted Tuesday, that he planned to shoot his sister, mom and dad with a .22-caliber rifle before he went to a rural field and set a fire to distract cops.

    The 11th-grader then said he planned to go to Waseca Junior and Senior High School where he would toss Molotov cocktails and explode pressure-cooker bombs to try and kill “as many students as he could” in the cafeteria during lunchtime.

    About 1,000 students, in 7th through 12th grade, attend the school.

    LaDue, according to the notebook of his plan, would kill the school resource officer before continuing to kill other students. He was prepared to be gunned down by a SWAT Team, police said.


    http://gunwars.news21.com/blog/2014/07/building-a-safer-sandy-hook/



    The high school and middle school, which already had armed resource officers, doubled down on security and restricted all visitors that didn’t have prior permission to enter.





     
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  8. 2aguy
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    2aguy Diamond Member

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    Last, there is no documented evidence in support of the notion that armed citizens would be able to ‘neutralize’ a mass shooter or gun crime incident, nor is there any evidence that armed citizens act as a ‘deterrent’ to gun crime and violence.

    You just post without knowing anything about the topic.....you should really stop.....it doesn't make you look good.....you have no idea what you are talking about.......the following list isn't even a comprehensive one of mass shootings stopped by normal people.....with their own guns.....

    And did you forget the Texas Church shooting...the NRA instructor with his own AR-15 civilian rifle stopped the murderer from executing 26 wounded people in the church and drove him off, he was the one covering the suspect after the car chase until the police arrived 15 minutes later......

    You really need to stop talking without knowledge....

    Deputies: Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense

    According to deputies, Parangan pulled out a handgun and fired multiple shots at Pastor Terry Howell, who took out his own weapon and fired back, striking Parangan.

    Howell was not injured, but Parangan was taken to Osceola Regional Medical Center in critical condition.

    Deputies said several church employees witnessed the incident and gave similar statements.

    this Psychiatrist was not an off duty cop.....

    Penn. psychiatric center shooting intended mass killing: DA

    The Pennsylvania patient accused of killing his caseworker in a psychiatric center shooting carried dozens of bullets — and he would have likely continued shooting if a doctor didn’t fire back, officials said.

    Richard Plotts, 49, is expected to be charged with murder for allegedly opening fire at Sister Marie Lenahan Wellness Center in Darby Thursday.

    After he killed his caseworker, 53-year-old Theresa Hunt, and shot his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman, the wounded doctor fired back, stopping the attack, District Attorney Jack Whelan said in a Friday press conference.

    Plotts had 39 more bullets on him. He intended a mass shooting, Whelan said.



    This Uber driver is not a cop....

    An Uber driver with a concealed handgun prevented a mass shooting in Chicago

    A driver with the ride-hailing service Uber put a stop to a potential mass shooting in Chicago over the weekend.

    Here's the Chicago Tribune, citing Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn:

    A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

    The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.

    The Orlando night club shooter....faced 300 unarmed people and killed 49...this shooter was shot by a concealed carry permit holder....at a night club two weeks after Orlando...

    http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/0...ss-shooting-night-club-media-remained-silent/

    This past Sunday, exactly two weeks to the day after the Pulse attack, there was a mass shooting outside a night club in South Carolina. I’m sure you haven’t heard about it, and for two good reasons. The first reason is that the attempted murderer was unsuccessful in killing any of his victims. The second reason is because the attempted murderer was stopped by a concealed carrier at the club drawing his weapon and putting a bullet into the bad guy.



    Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

    Charleston church shooting - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia ( 9 dead)
    26 dead in shooting at church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (26 dead)

    vs.

    Deputies Osceola pastor shot church janitor in self-defense ( 0 dead)

    6 Shot At New Life Church Gunman 2 Churchgoers Dead - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

    Remember This SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service. No Casualties. ( 0 dead)

    **********

    No guns: 41 dead

    Sikh temple ( 6 dead, 4 wounded)

    Charleston ( 9 dead)

    Texas church shooting (26 dead)


    Parishioners with guns: 2 dead

    Osceola ( 0 dead )

    New life ( 2 dead, 3 wounded)

    South Carolina shotgun guy ( 0 dead)


    Temple massacre has some Sikhs mulling gun ownership

    The president of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin had only a butter knife on hand, which he used to fight the gunman. He was killed, but his heroic actions were credited for slowing the shooter. Guns were not allowed in the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin.

    “No guns [were] allowed in the temple,” Kulbir Singh, an attendee of the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, told FoxNews.com. “Everyone knows that it’s not allowed, anywhere in the temple.”
     
  9. Bob Blaylock
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    Bob Blaylock Gold Member

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    They are very effective for their intended purpose, which is to supply violent criminals with easy prey.
     
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  10. harmonica
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