Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high...

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yep....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

 

[2aguy]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%



Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

 

[2aguy]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yep....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

Yes...you are another one who hides the failure of gun control laws in Britain by focusing on gun murder which has never been a major problem in Britain, since their criminals didn't do it...even before they banned guns. You have to hide the fact that gun crime, the illegal use of guns in the commission of violent crimes against unarmed citizens, is increasing...

And if the criminals have the guns in increasing numbers, what gun control law is stopping them from walking into a church, a school or a mall? And which gun control law keeps them from pulling the trigger and aiming at the head or chest instead of the leg?

Please explain how that works.

 

[idb]

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%



Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

Lest we forget...your OP title is "Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high... "

 

[idb]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yep....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

Yes...you are another one who hides the failure of gun control laws in Britain by focusing on gun murder which has never been a major problem in Britain, since their criminals didn't do it...even before they banned guns. You have to hide the fact that gun crime, the illegal use of guns in the commission of violent crimes against unarmed citizens, is increasing...

And if the criminals have the guns in increasing numbers, what gun control law is stopping them from walking into a church, a school or a mall? And which gun control law keeps them from pulling the trigger and aiming at the head or chest instead of the leg?

Please explain how that works.

OP title "Gun free Britain? Murders going to hit 10 year high... "

 

[frigidweirdo]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yep....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

Yes...you are another one who hides the failure of gun control laws in Britain by focusing on gun murder which has never been a major problem in Britain, since their criminals didn't do it...even before they banned guns. You have to hide the fact that gun crime, the illegal use of guns in the commission of violent crimes against unarmed citizens, is increasing...

And if the criminals have the guns in increasing numbers, what gun control law is stopping them from walking into a church, a school or a mall? And which gun control law keeps them from pulling the trigger and aiming at the head or chest instead of the leg?

Please explain how that works.

Easy availability of guns means that criminals value their weapons less, which means they're more likely to use them.

Whereas in the UK a criminal might be able to get a gun, or might not, it might cost them more and it might be more of a struggle to get another one.

Also that gun warfare isn't prevalent means guns are often used as a means of scaring people, rather than actually having to use them.

But then again, I showed you the murder rate in the US and the UK compared in a chart, and somehow you believe this is me "focusing on gun murder".

Another one of your inabilities to know what people are talking about in your desire to "win" of get what you want regardless of the truth.

UK gun control laws are not a failure. They're also not 100% effective, but what laws are?

But the UK gun murder rate is massively low, it's murder rate isn't high. It's a success.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%



Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Clearly the only sensible answer is to have more guns freely available...that'll fix it.

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Murder has always been higher in the U.S. even before they banned guns in the U.K. showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their gun murder rates....

Right, the US has always had guns and always had higher murder rates.

The UK has always had less guns and always had less murders.

What does this say to you?

You're trying to make the argument that an increase in crime is bad and a reduction is good. You're being misleading at best, and conniving when people see what you're actually doing.

Someone else has made this argument better than me, so I'll let you reply to them.

And yet you can't tell me why CA has a murder rate that is more than 4 times higher than NH despite all its strict gun laws can you?

 

[idb]

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%



Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, because the first world country with the most guns is also the first world country with the highest murder rates.

Yeah, let's fix it by allowing humans to kill each other..... that'll solve the problem, eventually, of humans with guns.

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Murder has always been higher in the U.S. even before they banned guns in the U.K. showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their gun murder rates....

Right, the US has always had guns and always had higher murder rates.

The UK has always had less guns and always had less murders.

What does this say to you?

You're trying to make the argument that an increase in crime is bad and a reduction is good. You're being misleading at best, and conniving when people see what you're actually doing.

Someone else has made this argument better than me, so I'll let you reply to them.

And yet you can't tell me why CA has a murder rate that is more than 4 times higher than NH despite all its strict gun laws can you?

Sure I can.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It seemed to lower the gun crime rate here...while the gun crime rate in Britain, where they banned and confiscated guns is going up....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Britain....


Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

---

Police urged to ‘follow the gun’ to cut smuggling amid rise in firearm crime

The findings, by the Birmingham-based National Ballistics Intelligence Network, come as concern grows over a 20% rise in gun crime in England and Wales.

----

Figures released last month by the Office for National Statistics showed a 20% rise in firearms incidents in England and Wales – 6,694 offences during the year up to September 2017.
----

The arrest and jailing for 30 years in 2016 of Harry Shilling, caught trying to smuggle £100,000-worth of guns from France into the UK, underlined how susceptible the UK is to smuggling. Officers found 22 assault rifles and nine submachine guns, as well as 1,500 rounds of ammunition, after intercepting a boat at a marina in Kent.

Last week a Birmingham physiotherapist, Mohinder Surdhar, who supplied guns and ammunition to gangs, including weapons used in three murders, was jailed for 14 years.
==========
U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.
The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data.

Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Murder has always been higher in the U.S. even before they banned guns in the U.K. showing that their gun control laws had nothing to do with their gun murder rates....

Right, the US has always had guns and always had higher murder rates.

The UK has always had less guns and always had less murders.

What does this say to you?

You're trying to make the argument that an increase in crime is bad and a reduction is good. You're being misleading at best, and conniving when people see what you're actually doing.

Someone else has made this argument better than me, so I'll let you reply to them.

And yet you can't tell me why CA has a murder rate that is more than 4 times higher than NH despite all its strict gun laws can you?

Sure I can.

go ahead

 

[2aguy]

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

And again, you go to a statistic that is not relevant to the gun control laws in Britain working, since gun crime is going up..which means there are more guns in the hands of criminals in Britain...... that means that if they wanted to murder people with those guns, they could.

You keep being told over and over again that Britain did not have a high gun murder rate for it's entire history.....that means before they banned guns. Then, they banned guns and there was a spike in gun murder, and now it has gone down...what didn't go down? Gun crime...that is up...not down. You need to distract attention away from that fact.

 

[2aguy]

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Where is murder higher? The US or the UK?

Where is gun crime higher? The US or the UK?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

No, that isn't the point at all.....the actual point is that taking guns away from law abiding people does not lower the gun crime rate...and that is exactly what Britain shows, that is what America shows...as more Americans own and carry guns, the gun crime rate has gone down, not up, showing that law abiding people who have guns do not suddenly start to commit crimes simply because they have guns.

 

[2aguy]

Yep....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

Yes...you are another one who hides the failure of gun control laws in Britain by focusing on gun murder which has never been a major problem in Britain, since their criminals didn't do it...even before they banned guns. You have to hide the fact that gun crime, the illegal use of guns in the commission of violent crimes against unarmed citizens, is increasing...

And if the criminals have the guns in increasing numbers, what gun control law is stopping them from walking into a church, a school or a mall? And which gun control law keeps them from pulling the trigger and aiming at the head or chest instead of the leg?

Please explain how that works.

Easy availability of guns means that criminals value their weapons less, which means they're more likely to use them.

Whereas in the UK a criminal might be able to get a gun, or might not, it might cost them more and it might be more of a struggle to get another one.

Also that gun warfare isn't prevalent means guns are often used as a means of scaring people, rather than actually having to use them.

But then again, I showed you the murder rate in the US and the UK compared in a chart, and somehow you believe this is me "focusing on gun murder".

Another one of your inabilities to know what people are talking about in your desire to "win" of get what you want regardless of the truth.

UK gun control laws are not a failure. They're also not 100% effective, but what laws are?

But the UK gun murder rate is massively low, it's murder rate isn't high. It's a success.

You think that criminals are not getting more guns now? Your post has no bearing on the fact that Britain's criminals are getting more guns... you only focus on gun murder since that hasn't changed in Britain, except for the massive spike immediately after they banned guns.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?
I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

And again, you go to a statistic that is not relevant to the gun control laws in Britain working, since gun crime is going up..which means there are more guns in the hands of criminals in Britain...... that means that if they wanted to murder people with those guns, they could.

You keep being told over and over again that Britain did not have a high gun murder rate for it's entire history.....that means before they banned guns. Then, they banned guns and there was a spike in gun murder, and now it has gone down...what didn't go down? Gun crime...that is up...not down. You need to distract attention away from that fact.

You're telling me about stuff that's not relevant? Wow, the king of posting totally irrelevant crap.

No, more gun crime does not equate to more guns in the hands of criminals. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Yes, if they wanted to murder people, they could. I mean if you had a knife or poison or a car or hands you could also murder people.

Unfortunately for you and your lunacy, there are no international statistics on the numbers of people who WANT TO MURDER PEOPLE BUT DON'T.

But thank you for that irrelevant crap anyway.

So, you're trying to make the argument that gun violence was low before gun control laws were enacted therefore.... therefore... who the fuck knows that comes after therefore. The UK had low numbers of guns before gun control. In 1997 gun control was enacted to stop random mass gun murders, of which there haven't been many while the US has one every month right now.

So the gun control law works. However you have decided that somehow you either have gun control and it works 100% or you don't have it. You can't have an in between because... because... who the fuck knows what comes after because.

As for your claim, backed up by not one single statistic, that gun crime didn't go down. Bullshit.

See here, 2002 gun murders went up, as did murder in general, and then it wen down again. Dropping by more than 50%.

And here's firearms offenses which reached a high in 2006 and then went down too.

Right, so you've just made up "facts" again, for the umpteenth time. Why do you pull this shit exactly?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

You do understand statistics I assume?
A small increase in numbers from a small base will be a large increase in percentage.
E.g. if you have five murders in one year...then six murders the following year...what is the percentage increase?

Gun crime is going down in the U.S. it is going up in the U.K........

I count 8 firearm deaths in the UK in the year to March 2017.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

No, that isn't the point at all.....the actual point is that taking guns away from law abiding people does not lower the gun crime rate...and that is exactly what Britain shows, that is what America shows...as more Americans own and carry guns, the gun crime rate has gone down, not up, showing that law abiding people who have guns do not suddenly start to commit crimes simply because they have guns.

Yes, it actually does. Taking away the easy availability of guns from criminals, which a big part of this is taking guns from "law abiding people" (whatever the fuck that means, most people break the law every day) actually keeps gun crime lower.

You've done nothing, other than faking statistics, to show that this is the case. Your argument is like pretending that water is beer. Weak as fuck.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This is hilarious.

It's taking a few facts and believing you can manipulate people with only a small portion and a massive fairy tale of an interpretation.

Gun ownership

Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2017 | Statistic

Crime statistics

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2017

In 1972 there was 43% gun ownership.
In 2017 there was 42% gun ownership.

It seems to fluctuate between 37% and 47%, though this might just be how they collect the data. Either way there doesn't seem to be a rise in people owning guns. Just an increase in POPULATION which means more people own guns, because there are more people. (Read, OP couldn't use statistics honestly if he tried)

Gun ownership was probably similar in the 1950s when crime rates were lower too.

That US murder rates went down, doesn't mean much when they've not been below 4 murders per 100,000 people in the last 100 something years, and when the UK hasn't been above 1.5 in the last 200 years.

And increase of crime happens at times, and it decreases at times.

To simply say "crime is rising" therefore it's bad, is to ignore so much stuff and to be totally dishonest.

The fact that crime is rising is because the UK has had a Conservative government in power for the last 8 years. They've cut police spending, they've cut spending on education, on things like that.

Dishonesty is the only thing you'll find in the OP's posts in general, and there's no exception here.

You just admitted in your post that gun crime is not dependent on gun control......it is about time you admitted it. Criminals use guns...they don't always use them for murder.....and Britain has a growing gun crime problem......

Yes, I admit that the number of guns does not lead to X amount of gun crime or gun murders.

This topic is not just "this leads to that every single time". There are lots and lots of factors in what leads to higher murder rates. But then dealing with lots and lots of factors with a guy who repeatedly misuses single facts and statistics is going to be futile, isn't it?

The only time when complexity is convenient for you is when your simplistic argument has been destroyed and you're clinging on to whatever you can find.

You can't even be honest enough to answer questions properly, but you continue to misrepresent every single time. Oh, and insult. Remember the "Moron" and then your reason why I was a "Moron" was you not responding to what I wrote and saying something completely disconnected with what I said?

Yes...you are another one who hides the failure of gun control laws in Britain by focusing on gun murder which has never been a major problem in Britain, since their criminals didn't do it...even before they banned guns. You have to hide the fact that gun crime, the illegal use of guns in the commission of violent crimes against unarmed citizens, is increasing...

And if the criminals have the guns in increasing numbers, what gun control law is stopping them from walking into a church, a school or a mall? And which gun control law keeps them from pulling the trigger and aiming at the head or chest instead of the leg?

Please explain how that works.

Easy availability of guns means that criminals value their weapons less, which means they're more likely to use them.

Whereas in the UK a criminal might be able to get a gun, or might not, it might cost them more and it might be more of a struggle to get another one.

Also that gun warfare isn't prevalent means guns are often used as a means of scaring people, rather than actually having to use them.

But then again, I showed you the murder rate in the US and the UK compared in a chart, and somehow you believe this is me "focusing on gun murder".

Another one of your inabilities to know what people are talking about in your desire to "win" of get what you want regardless of the truth.

UK gun control laws are not a failure. They're also not 100% effective, but what laws are?

But the UK gun murder rate is massively low, it's murder rate isn't high. It's a success.

You think that criminals are not getting more guns now? Your post has no bearing on the fact that Britain's criminals are getting more guns... you only focus on gun murder since that hasn't changed in Britain, except for the massive spike immediately after they banned guns.

You want to show that criminals are getting more guns now. Then prove it. Until then I call bullshit on your fake crap.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Yes...you focus on gun murder which has always, always been low in Britain even when they had access to guns.....it was always lower than here...you focus on that because you have to hide the fact that criminals in Britain are getting more guns...illegal guns, and they are using them for crime....currently, they are not using them for murder....but they are getting more guns and using them in increasing levels for crime against unarmed civilians....with a police force hamstrung by policies straight from our democrat party play book....cut manpower, cut the money, cripple them with P.C. policies....

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

And again, you go to a statistic that is not relevant to the gun control laws in Britain working, since gun crime is going up..which means there are more guns in the hands of criminals in Britain...... that means that if they wanted to murder people with those guns, they could.

You keep being told over and over again that Britain did not have a high gun murder rate for it's entire history.....that means before they banned guns. Then, they banned guns and there was a spike in gun murder, and now it has gone down...what didn't go down? Gun crime...that is up...not down. You need to distract attention away from that fact.

You're telling me about stuff that's not relevant? Wow, the king of posting totally irrelevant crap.

No, more gun crime does not equate to more guns in the hands of criminals. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Yes, if they wanted to murder people, they could. I mean if you had a knife or poison or a car or hands you could also murder people.

Unfortunately for you and your lunacy, there are no international statistics on the numbers of people who WANT TO MURDER PEOPLE BUT DON'T.

But thank you for that irrelevant crap anyway.

So, you're trying to make the argument that gun violence was low before gun control laws were enacted therefore.... therefore... who the fuck knows that comes after therefore. The UK had low numbers of guns before gun control. In 1997 gun control was enacted to stop random mass gun murders, of which there haven't been many while the US has one every month right now.

So the gun control law works. However you have decided that somehow you either have gun control and it works 100% or you don't have it. You can't have an in between because... because... who the fuck knows what comes after because.

As for your claim, backed up by not one single statistic, that gun crime didn't go down. Bullshit.

See here, 2002 gun murders went up, as did murder in general, and then it wen down again. Dropping by more than 50%.

And here's firearms offenses which reached a high in 2006 and then went down too.

Right, so you've just made up "facts" again, for the umpteenth time. Why do you pull this shit exactly?

So the gun control law works. However you have decided that somehow you either have gun control and it works 100% or you don't have it. You can't have an in between because... because... who the fuck knows what comes after because.

This is pretty much the cornerstone of his bullshit. Refuting claims that have never been made. A rational person reading it would conclude that we need less guns in the UK not more.

With low gun ownership we have a murder rate that is a fraction of the US with its gun culture. It is impossible to make a coherent argument against that.

 

[frigidweirdo]

"even when they had access to guns", like they don't have access to guns.

We've done this before so many fucking times. THEY HAVE GUNS.

What's DIFFERENT is that access is LIMITED and RESTRICTED whereas in the US it isn't.

The issue here is that there are more guns than before, the Yardies brought in guns for the first real time. Gun murders WENT UP.

Homicide - Office for National Statistics

You can look on this interactive map and see. April 2002 to March 2003 was the highest murder rate. It got up to 1.7 murders per 100,000 people. Massively lower than the US's rate. This is for England and Wales rather than the UK.

By April 2014-March 2015 this has dropped to 0.9, nearly half.

That's with guns being in the country. So why did the murder rate go down?

Better policing, the left wing Labour Party increased spending on the police force.

You know what's changed since then? The right wing Tory Party reducing spending on policing.

The murder rate is going up. But by 2017 it was 10.7.

Homicide in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

So, the murder rate fluctuates, and it often fluctuates based on police spending and the like. But the UK is more likely to deal with the problems from every aspect, social, economic etc, whereas in the US politicians ignore all the problems, and people like you do too.

The regular point that 2aguy makes is that gun laws don't prevent gun crimes 100% so should be scrapped.
The answer just writes itself.
Why have drug laws, abortion laws, immigration laws...?

The point that 2Aguy makes is that he's an absolute fraud and "fake news" reporter.

No, gun laws don't stop things 100%, who said they do?

The UK's murder rate is 4 time or more lower than the US's. A rise in crime is inevitable as is a drop in crime at other times. That's what happens in life.

The fraud is trying to claim that a rise is worse than a drop in crime and murders, REGARDLESS of what the rate is in the first place. This is just ridiculous.

And again, you go to a statistic that is not relevant to the gun control laws in Britain working, since gun crime is going up..which means there are more guns in the hands of criminals in Britain...... that means that if they wanted to murder people with those guns, they could.

You keep being told over and over again that Britain did not have a high gun murder rate for it's entire history.....that means before they banned guns. Then, they banned guns and there was a spike in gun murder, and now it has gone down...what didn't go down? Gun crime...that is up...not down. You need to distract attention away from that fact.

You're telling me about stuff that's not relevant? Wow, the king of posting totally irrelevant crap.

No, more gun crime does not equate to more guns in the hands of criminals. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Yes, if they wanted to murder people, they could. I mean if you had a knife or poison or a car or hands you could also murder people.

Unfortunately for you and your lunacy, there are no international statistics on the numbers of people who WANT TO MURDER PEOPLE BUT DON'T.

But thank you for that irrelevant crap anyway.

So, you're trying to make the argument that gun violence was low before gun control laws were enacted therefore.... therefore... who the fuck knows that comes after therefore. The UK had low numbers of guns before gun control. In 1997 gun control was enacted to stop random mass gun murders, of which there haven't been many while the US has one every month right now.

So the gun control law works. However you have decided that somehow you either have gun control and it works 100% or you don't have it. You can't have an in between because... because... who the fuck knows what comes after because.

As for your claim, backed up by not one single statistic, that gun crime didn't go down. Bullshit.

See here, 2002 gun murders went up, as did murder in general, and then it wen down again. Dropping by more than 50%.

And here's firearms offenses which reached a high in 2006 and then went down too.

Right, so you've just made up "facts" again, for the umpteenth time. Why do you pull this shit exactly?

So the gun control law works. However you have decided that somehow you either have gun control and it works 100% or you don't have it. You can't have an in between because... because... who the fuck knows what comes after because.

This is pretty much the cornerstone of his bullshit. Refuting claims that have never been made. A rational person reading it would conclude that we need less guns in the UK not more.

With low gun ownership we have a murder rate that is a fraction of the US with its gun culture. It is impossible to make a coherent argument against that.

Oh yes, but 2Aguy has even admitted in the past that he basically posts shit in the hope that some tosser will actually agree with him. Reality and facts don't matter. It's getting what he wants that's important and he will say anything.