Greatest of all time: Position by Position

[Truthspeaker]

Barry Bonds isn't even in Ted Williams' league.

He couldn't carry Ted's jock strap without being juiced.

numbers don't lie. He competed against juiced players and hit in a pitchers park. It all evens out.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Did anyone show my boy Sandy Koufax some love?

I'm still waiting for someone to come with their complete lineup to combat mine. Sandy will probably be on somebody's list.

 

[Truthspeaker]

will the thrill at first

Will Clark Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

because i can

I as a Giants fan can understand. But the Thrill at his best doesn't crack the top 20 at his position. You should start a thread about a lineup of your favorite players, not the best. Matt Williams and Will Clark would be on my list.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Greatest of all time: Position by Position

hmmmmm....

1. missionary. i know it's old fashioned, but really its the easiest and its the way our bodies were designed.

2. female superior. let her do the work sometimes i say. womens lib and all that.

3. doggy. sometimes a little kinky is all you really need.

 

[RadiomanATL]

oh shit.

you meant sports players and their positions.


well i got nuthin then.

 

[Truthspeaker]

6. Josh Gibson-c concrete stats unavailable. Career lifetime average between .354 and .387. Over 800 lifetime homers. Rocket arm.

Better than Johnny Bench? BA .567, 1,567 HR, 10,355 SB

Better than Carlton Fisk? BA .897, 78,445 HR, 100,000,001 SB

I see you are exaggerating a bit. Oh wait...I just got it. You think others are exaggerating about Gibson. Well what do the white players of his day say about Gibson?

"There is a catcher that any big league club would love. His name is Gibson...he can do everything. He hits the ball a mile. And he catchs so easy he might as well be in a rocking chair. Throws like a rifle. Too bad this Gibson is a colored fellow." - Walter Johnson (Washington Senators pitcher), on Josh Gibson, catcher for the Kansas City Monarchs

 

[Truthspeaker]

I got Mays, Williams and Frank Robinson in the outfield.....With Clemente in reserve.

Gimme your whole team

 

[Truthspeaker]

Bonds also cheated.

No, he was just keeping up with the joneses, mcgwireses, sosas, clemenses, pettites, ramirezes etc, right down to the santangelos.

 

[Truthspeaker]

How does Bonds get to be considered better than just about ANYONE these days?

Unless someone can prove that the great throwback players like Ted were shooting roids into their ass, Bonds loses all credibility when put up against them.

Truth, you're telling people not to let something cloud their judgement, meanwhile you're obviously letting the fact that Bonds was on your team for most of his career cloud YOURS.

Paulie numbers don't lie. If Bond's was the only one doing the roids you would have a point. But we all know now that everyone was guilty, especially the greats of our time. Whatever distance Bonds gained on his fly balls was negated by the pitchers park he played in. Many of his homers challenging the deepest part of the yard. Ted Williams may not have been on roids but he played in a homerdome in boston and still only topped 40 homers once in his career. It's not close.

Of course, Williams spending five of his most potentially productive years serving his country has nothing to do with anything here.

And the juice didn't make it onto the scene until the late '70s to early '80s...Well after Williams was out of the game.

Back in his day, a lot of the players were into the amphetamines.

Dude, I posted the best years of each players career and even took into consideration the war years lost to Williams. did you see that? No doubt Williams was probably a better guy but Williams came back and never missed a step. He continued to get better for some time after the war. His best still doesn't compare to Bond's best. Plus Williams never set any records, career or single season. Though his most impressive stat to me was striking out just 21 times the year he hit .406

 

[Truthspeaker]

Greatest of all time: Position by Position

hmmmmm....

1. missionary. i know it's old fashioned, but really its the easiest and its the way our bodies were designed.

2. female superior. let her do the work sometimes i say. womens lib and all that.

3. doggy. sometimes a little kinky is all you really need.

reverse that order, but off topic. Please make a separate thread.

 

[Xenophon]

Gibson wasn't given a chance.

Which the entire point.

People tend to give far to much credit to players who were denied playing in the big leagues.

He probaly would have been a star player, but best ever?

We will never no, its an insult to the guys who played in the majors to say someone who didn't play in them would have topped them.

Also, barnstorming is NOT a valid means to compare, the ML players are on recond in their later years saying they always took it easy in such things since it was designed to highlight locals.

If you are going to include any kind of baseball, you might as well include Sadaharu Oh, who hit more HR then anybody, including Bonds.

 

[Oddball]

Dude, I posted the best years of each players career and even took into consideration the war years lost to Williams. did you see that? No doubt Williams was probably a better guy but Williams came back and never missed a step. He continued to get better for some time after the war. His best still doesn't compare to Bond's best. Plus Williams never set any records, career or single season. Though his most impressive stat to me was striking out just 21 times the year he hit .406

How many triple crowns did juice boy earn?

 

[Xenophon]

Ted Williams is the greatest left handed hitter of all time.

Bonds cannot shine his shoes, Bonds is a massive cheat who's claim to fame is a lot of HR and a mishapen head, as opposed to Ted who mearly had his frozen.

 

[Gunny]

Barry Bonds isn't even in Ted Williams' league.

Numbers don't lie. Ted is a step below Bonds. The only thing Ted has on him is batting average. It stops there. You can't even say that he drove in more runs(he did) because he consistently would get about 150-200 more at bats than Bond's. This one is not close. Don't let your dislike of him cloud your judgment. I don't like him either, but don't be a fool.

Perhaps, but then, Ted wasn't slamming "juice" either. That would make any argument you have irrelevant because we don't know two things: how Bonds would do without Dianabol, and how Williams would do with it.

My vote is that a known 'roid freak is automatically disqualified because you're comparing him to people who had to get by on their OWN talent, not the chemist's.

 

[Gunny]

Snub Ted, arguably the greatest hitter of all time, for the guy who's skull continued to grow into his early 40s.

Yeah ...

numbers don't lie.

Neither do steroid tests.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bonds is a fucking joke. It's not enough they juiced up the ball and made pitchers practically throw underhand, he had to juice himself up.

Fuck him. His "records" don't mean crap

 

[Oddball]

My pitchers:

Warren Spahn
Dizzy Dean
Cy Young
Satchel Paige
Nolan Ryan

 

[CrusaderFrank]

1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Nellie Fox
3B: Brooks Robinson
SS: Derek Jeter
Outfield: Mays, Ruth, Williams, Mantle, DiMaggio, Cobb and Dave Parker for defense (impossible to pick only 3)
Catcher: Johnny Bench

Pitchers.

Bob Gibson
Sandy Koufax
Nolan Ryan
Pedro Martinez

Relief: Mariano Rivera

 

[rightwinger]

My pitchers:

Warren Spahn
Dizzy Dean
Cy Young
Satchel Paige
Nolan Ryan

I'm OK with every pitcher except for Ryan. Ryan was a statistical freak. He was barely over .500 has a pitcher, had two twenty game seasons (and lost 16 games in those seasons) and never won the Cy Young.

Pitchers better than Nolan Ryan
Bob Gibson
Tom Seaver
Juan Marichal
Steve Carlton
Greg Maddox
Randy Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Pedro Martinez

Old School Pitchers better than Ryan
Christy Mathewson
Walter Johnson
Grover Alexander

 

[Truthspeaker]

Gibson wasn't given a chance.

Which the entire point.

My contention is that the leagues were equal in talent.

People tend to give far to much credit to players who were denied playing in the big leagues.

I'm assuming he would have put the same numbers up in either league. Based on that assumption being true, he's the greatest ever.

He probaly would have been a star player, but best ever?

Yes and Yes.

We will never no, its an insult to the guys who played in the majors to say someone who didn't play in them would have topped them.

It's not an insult when you say the leagues were equally talented. I'm being nice too since the interleague games were heavily tipped in favor of the negro teams.

Also, barnstorming is NOT a valid means to compare, the ML players are on recond in their later years saying they always took it easy in such things since it was designed to highlight locals.

I'd like to see the quote of whoever said that. Then I would take it as nothing more than sour grapes. In America we try to win. those guys didn't know how to "take it easy". They were hotly contested games. Even if they did take it easy in such games(which they didn't), I have far more respect for the players who played hard in respect of the game. That makes them better in my book.

If you are going to include any kind of baseball, you might as well include Sadaharu Oh, who hit more HR then anybody, including Bonds.

And he would be worthy since I already considered him. My problem with Oh was that his best season ever for rbi was just 124. He averaged about 110. He never slugged more than .755. He had a ton of 30 and 40+ homer seasons with 3 seasons of over 50(55 being his highest).
Now Bonds homered every 12.92 at bats through his career. Oh homered every 10.64 at bats. Career wise, no one has ever been as impressive as Oh, except for Gibson with over 900 homers. All his stats cannot be tracked due to a lot of those games being barnstormed.
But my point is this. At their prime, no one, not even Oh matched Bonds best season out puts.

Bonds best .370, Oh's best .355

Bonds best HR 73(6.52 ab/hr), Oh's best 55 (8.58 ab/hr) also a year@49 total at 7.86 ab/hr. Both amazing but Bonds clearly better.

Bonds best RBI total 137(3.47 ab/rbi) Oh's best 124(3.48 ab/rbi) really close, but no cigar

Bond's best slugging% .863(a world record), Oh's best .761(this is a ridiculus #, but 102points lower)

Bonds best obp, an insane .609, Oh's best .527(only twice did he top .500 where as Bonds did it 4 times and was always close to .500 every year.

Bonds best steals total 52, Oh's best ( stats not kept so he must not have been much of a base stealer)

Bonds gold gloves 8, Oh's defense, I'm not sure but he probably wasn't as good.