Gov't Forces Christians To Violate Faith

[Spare_change]

Actually, they aren't .... the government is interfering in the practice of religion. It is determining that some religious practices are acceptable and some are not.

It's no more difficult than that.

So in Piggie Park v. Newman where someone claimed serving black people was against their religious beliefs, that would be interfering with their religious beliefs no?

And if someone didn't want to serve black people in their establishment, but not based on religious beliefs and the government provided the exception for one without exempting the other - wouldn't that be unequal treatment under the law?

Then there is the case of Bob Jones University with discriminated against non-whites and interracial couples based on their religious beliefs.



Does claiming a religious belief exempt you form all kinds of different laws or only laws regarding homosexuals?



>>>>

Yes

No

Not under the current misinterpretation of the First Amendment.

 

[Spare_change]

Why argue with religious bigots of the far right.

They believe what they believe, and this their right to do so.

That is why we have PA laws and the Constitution to keep them corralled.

Because they're perverting Christianity and making false claims of a violation of their religious freedoms. As a Church elder, member of the Session, and a former Sunday School teacher, you can't pull that religion crap on me, because it's total hypocrisy.

Finally, when I blew his religious argument right out of the water, he said he wasn't a Christian, yet he is prepared to try to argue that dealing with gays violates religious freedom. This is strong evidence of bigots simply using religion to violate PA laws, even when they aren't even religious.

Your religious "experience" counts for exactly nothing, nor does it enhance your position ... you should be allowed to practice your religion as you deem appropriate, and I should be afforded the same right.

The government has deemed otherwise.

When you are in the public space, you are held accountable to public rules, Spare. That is not going to change.

Sadly, no .... the government will continue to persecute some Christians while allowing others to go free.

 

[Spare_change]

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.


Marriage changes everything.

/--- All they need is a Power of Attorney to make those decisions. The true agenda is to undermine the institution of marriage so you freaks can claim you're mainstream.

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

 

[Spare_change]

So God hates people that wants to live free outside of the normal mindset...So much for personal freedom. lol

That's between you and God ....

 

[Seawytch]

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.


Marriage changes everything.

/--- All they need is a Power of Attorney to make those decisions. The true agenda is to undermine the institution of marriage so you freaks can claim you're mainstream.

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

 

[Spare_change]

/--- All they need is a Power of Attorney to make those decisions. The true agenda is to undermine the institution of marriage so you freaks can claim you're mainstream.

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

 

[Seawytch]

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

 

[Cellblock2429]

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

 

[danielpalos]

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

You already, "sold your soul" for Lucre on a for-profit basis. You have no claim to social morals for free, when doing business on a for-profit basis.

 

[bendog]

The Supreme Court has already said you can't use the bible to discriminate against blacks. Why should anti gay bigots get special rights that racist bigots do not?

Because 3,000 years of Judeo-Christian teachings and tradition do not stipulate that being Black constitutes wicked, sinful sexual deviancy and perversion?

You live in a Secularized Christian Nation, wherein +70% of the population identify with such religious beliefs, and where another +10% have such cultural roots.

Those 3,000 years of teaching and tradition are alive and well and will ultimately right the ship of state in this context.

Racist bigots tried to use the same exact bible that anti gay bigots use. Why allow one group to be discriminated against and not the other?

/----- Being Black is not a sin against God and man. Being Gay is. View attachment 122155

Racist Christians don't think so. They have biblical verses just like anti gay ones do. Are you trying to tell me you've never heard of "the Mark of Cain"?

Doesn't matter.

We're talking about Judeo-Christian teachings and tradition at-large, not your sad, myopic little attempt to conflate and confuse the issue to the benefit of homosexuals.

I wanna burn a god damned witch! Let's get back to basics!

 

[Seawytch]

The free exercise of your religion isn't infringed upon by my civil marriage.

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

 

[Cellblock2429]

No one claimed that it did .... but forcing me to sanctify, and/or participate, under threat of punishment, DOES infringe on my religious rights.

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

 

[WorldWatcher]

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

The bakery could refuse based on the sexual orientation of the person and not be in violation of the law, under Florida Public Accommodation law sexual orientation is not covered.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine


>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

You just did. Here are your words.

"Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities."

Which implied that my getting a civil marriage license somehow infringes on your religious rights. It does not.

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

Florida does not protect gays from discrimination.

If a Muslim bakery in, say, CA sold wedding cakes, I would feel quite comfortable ordering a cake from them.

 

[Spare_change]

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

Florida does not protect gays from discrimination.

If a Muslim bakery in, say, CA sold wedding cakes, I would feel quite comfortable ordering a cake from them.

But, of course, they would not be "comfortable" providing a cake for your gay wedding.

 

[boilermaker55]

You have proved nothing.
Little boy.

Perhaps you would understand the facts, I was hoping with that comment.

Obviously you do.

Step off.

Childish comments to try and prove your point does not "prove your argument.

The federal judiciary agree with me generally and say "nuh uh" to your 'whuuuut?"

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[Cellblock2429]

No, it doesn't imply that at all.

The initial discussion has been about a florist ... not gay marriage. Frankly, a gay marriage does not impinge on my free exercise of my religious rights. Not allowing me to exercise my religious rights, however, IS an impingement on my freedom. There's no reason the two can't co-exist. Just like I don't want you to force your position on me, I shouldn't be able to force my position on you.

Get married if you like ... just don't force me to condone it. Conversely, you must allow me to exercise my religious rights as I see fit.

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

Florida does not protect gays from discrimination.

If a Muslim bakery in, say, CA sold wedding cakes, I would feel quite comfortable ordering a cake from them.

/--- This is what happens to gays under Shria Law.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can worship as you wish. No one has interfered with your faith.

You have proved nothing.
Little boy.

Perhaps you would understand the facts, I was hoping with that comment.

Obviously you do.

Step off.

Childish comments to try and prove your point does not "prove your argument.

The federal judiciary agree with me generally and say "nuh uh" to your 'whuuuut?"

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[Seawytch]

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

Florida does not protect gays from discrimination.

If a Muslim bakery in, say, CA sold wedding cakes, I would feel quite comfortable ordering a cake from them.

But, of course, they would not be "comfortable" providing a cake for your gay wedding.

You don't know that and neither do I. By law, they'd have to...just like I'd have to serve them (and/or Christians) in all 50 states.

 

[Seawytch]

Nobody is keeping you from the free exercise of your religion. Following the law of the land does not infringe on your religion. You are not forced into business. That is a choice. When you choose to go into business, you must follow the laws that govern owning a business in that location. If the laws governing that business are in conflict with what you perceive the beliefs of your religion are, it's time to get a different business.

As to "forcing positions", are you even aware that Federal Law (not state and local laws like those that protect gays) requires that a Christian cannot be denied service?

/---- Would you force a Muslim baker to make a light in the loafers cake or pizza? Would you force a Muslim Deli to serve you a bacon sandwich? Will would you, Punk?

No one is required to sell or stock a product they do not normally sell. I'll try to make this simple enough for your smaller than a pea brain to understand; if you sell a product to couple A, you cannot refuse to sell the exact same product to couple B because they are (insert protected class here).

In United States federal anti-discrimination law, a protected class is a group of people with a common characteristic who are legally protected from discrimination on the basis of that characteristic.

/--- Funny thing to say when you can't understand my question. Walk into the Hala Bakery in Jacksonville Florida and order a wedding cake for a gaye marriage ceremony. Go ahead, I dare you.

Florida does not protect gays from discrimination.

If a Muslim bakery in, say, CA sold wedding cakes, I would feel quite comfortable ordering a cake from them.

/--- This is what happens to gays under Shria Law.
View attachment 122373

You homophobes do love those pictures. (Secret desires)

http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-eas...sets/resources/Criminalization-Map-042315.pdf

There are 13 Muslim majority countries where homosexuality is legal...seems cultural more than religious.