Gov't Forces Christians To Violate Faith

[Seawytch]

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.


Marriage changes everything.

/--- All they need is a Power of Attorney to make those decisions. The true agenda is to undermine the institution of marriage so you freaks can claim you're mainstream.

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

/--- It's the cost of being a pervert.

 

[Spare_change]

The questions above by Spare are immaterial to the discussion.

Actually, they aren't .... the government is interfering in the practice of religion. It is determining that some religious practices are acceptable and some are not.

It's no more difficult than that.

The Supreme Court has already said you can't use the bible to discriminate against blacks. Why should anti gay bigots get special rights that racist bigots do not?

None of which changes the simple fact that the government is dictating religious practices, in violation of Amendment 1.

No, it is not. You want the government to discriminate on your behalf, Spare.

No --- I want the government to stop discriminating. Each person should be left to practice his/her religion as they see fit.

 

[Spare_change]

Actually, they aren't .... the government is interfering in the practice of religion. It is determining that some religious practices are acceptable and some are not.

It's no more difficult than that.

The Supreme Court has already said you can't use the bible to discriminate against blacks. Why should anti gay bigots get special rights that racist bigots do not?

None of which changes the simple fact that the government is dictating religious practices, in violation of Amendment 1.

No, it is not. You want the government to discriminate on your behalf, Spare.

Says PC Nazi Jake. lol what a hoot ...pot, kettle, black ...

Following the law and the Constitution is the anti-thesis of Nazism, your philosophy, Picaro.

Then, how do you explain the sanctioned deviation from Amendment 1?

 

[Spare_change]

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.

Marriage changes everything.

So ... you claim, rightfully so, that there are laws that discriminate against same sex relationships.

Yet, your fix is to deny another segment of society THEIR rights (the unfettered practice of their religious beliefs) to compensate.

Why don't you just fix the offending laws?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those laws have been declared unconstitutional prohibitions of their civil liberties.

You have no civil liberty in the public space to discriminate against people.

Take it up with SCOTUS if you disagree.

 

[Spare_change]

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.


Marriage changes everything.

/--- All they need is a Power of Attorney to make those decisions. The true agenda is to undermine the institution of marriage so you freaks can claim you're mainstream.

A power of attorney gives you spousal protections against testifying in court?

Why should gays have to pay thousands in legal fees for a fraction of the rights, benefits and protections afforded civil marriage?

Why would you deny me the free exercise of my religion in order to "compensate" for legal inequities.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Spare_change]

Do you agree that Christians' refusal to promote homosexuality is a function of their religion?

Do you agree that the Constitution, Amendment 1, says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..."?

If you are in business, you must abide by the law of the land, not your religion. If your religion is in conflict with laws governing business, then it's time to look for a new business venture that doesn't conflict with your personal beliefs.

A Christian's refusal to "promote interracial marriage" is also a function of their religion. Why don't racist bigots get to use the bible?

If you are in business, you must abide by the law of the land, not your religion. If your religion is in conflict with laws governing business, then it's time to look for a new business venture that doesn't conflict with your personal beliefs.

This is the very shit and hypocrisy that irks me!

Law of the land, eh...

Right, when it comes to religion, religious convictions
a business owner must follow the law of the land...

yet, when it comes to sanctuary cities and 'medical marijuana'
they are exempt from drug and immigration laws

yet, when it comes to atheists or non believers,
public displays which are symbolic of Christianity
are somehow a violation of their 'rights'.

yet, when it comes to saying,
God bless you or Merry Christmas,
it is politically incorrect

yet, its not discriminatory if a company doesn't even have to
consider you for employment based on being a convicted felon...
regardless that everyone makes mistakes

yet, when it comes to Muslims, employers and schools
are violating their religious freedom
if their policies infringe upon their beliefs and obligations

Fuck you people!

A gay consumer is free to take their business elsewhere!
Instead of being a bitch and filing a lawsuit, because, boo hoo,
somebody doesn't approve of gay marriage....
TAKE YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS ELSEWHERE!

How is it, everyone else's 'rights' are violated
except for those who believe in the God and Father of Jesus?

Sacrificing one persons rights, so as not to,
'violate' another's, is totally insane and ass backwards.

I don't have to accept gay marriage, anymore then,
having to accept men beating up on women,
women neglecting and abusing their children,
animal cruelty, litterbugs or pedophiles!

A Christian's refusal to "promote interracial marriage" is also a function of their religion. Why don't racist bigots get to use the bible

First of all, racism, being racist, is based on color idiot

Bigot

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Intolerant

not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.

Tolerant

showing willingness to allow the existence of
opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.


How is it, people are bigots if they don't accept homosexuality
but, those who are gay or fine with it, aren't considered bigots
for not accepting, those who don't accept homosexuality?

Funny how having moral or ethical opinions is bigotry,
and perversion and passions are protected rights!

Be gay, I don't fucking care....
forcing it on society is what I have a problem with!

When Christians want to use the bible to discriminate against blacks and interracial couples, we call them what? Why is it different when it's gays? Why do believe that people that "don't accept homosexuality" should get special exemptions from our laws?

homosexuals aren't black nor are they in any way similar; they're just mentally ill and self-destructive sexual fetishists, not a 'minority', and were never deprived of any Constitutional rights of any kind. Your silly meme has no relevance, and never did.

And here we have it. This isn't about Christianity at all, it's about bigotry. If your church teaches you to hate homosexuals, you're church is teaching hate, not love. Jesus said "Love one another as I have loved you". He didn't qualify that by saying "love straight white people as I have loved you". There were no limits or qualifications on loving one another. YOU put that limit there.

It can reasonably be argues that bigotry and hate are a form of mental illness because homosexuality most definitely is not. There have been homosexuals in every society, in every culture, at every time in history. Research tells us that people really are born this way. So if you believe that God doesn't make mistakes, then God made homosexuals for a reason. As Jesus said "If you do this to the least among you, you do it to me", so by turning away gays, and refusing them service, you are turning away the Lord.

Jesus did not teach people to discriminate against the outcasts of society, he ministered to them. They were his friends and his disciples, not the rich, not the powerful, and not those who feigned a love of God while treating others with disdain.

A non-sequitur at best, and nonsense at its core. Read the First Amendment and get back to us.

 

[Spare_change]

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

It's because the law doesn't recognize a couple's rights without marriage. If your husband or wife is sick or unconscious, you have the right to decide their care if they can't. If your same sex partner is ill, you have no rights to decide their care. If a family member comes in, they can decide their care and throw you out. It happens A LOT at the end of life.

Family members hate that their child is gay, and throw out the same sex partner, and take over their loved one's care, and the partner, who may have lived with them for 20, 30 or more years, has no rights.

Mentally ill people need others to look out for them, so this is the way it should be.

Marriage changes everything.

They aren't real marriages, they're just agitprop and attention whoring nonsense. Few are actually interested in 'marriage', and far fewer ever have long term relationships. your premise is a fake meme. they never concerned themselves with any of this until the self-inflicted AIDS crisis generated a need to get some of their fellow deviants insurance, so hence the sudden concern to peddle the 'marriage' hoax, just a way to scam health insurance companies.

My wife and I have been together 21 years and have two children. The overwhelming majority of our gay friends are also raising children in long term relationships. You straight folks divorce at a rate of over 50%. You're not being very good role models. My daughter only has one friend whose parents are still together and my son has none. You heterosexual need to do better.

... which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Nice deflection, though.

 

[Spare_change]

This is the very shit and hypocrisy that irks me!

Law of the land, eh...

Right, when it comes to religion, religious convictions
a business owner must follow the law of the land...

yet, when it comes to sanctuary cities and 'medical marijuana'
they are exempt from drug and immigration laws

yet, when it comes to atheists or non believers,
public displays which are symbolic of Christianity
are somehow a violation of their 'rights'.

yet, when it comes to saying,
God bless you or Merry Christmas,
it is politically incorrect

yet, its not discriminatory if a company doesn't even have to
consider you for employment based on being a convicted felon...
regardless that everyone makes mistakes

yet, when it comes to Muslims, employers and schools
are violating their religious freedom
if their policies infringe upon their beliefs and obligations

Fuck you people!

A gay consumer is free to take their business elsewhere!
Instead of being a bitch and filing a lawsuit, because, boo hoo,
somebody doesn't approve of gay marriage....
TAKE YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS ELSEWHERE!

How is it, everyone else's 'rights' are violated
except for those who believe in the God and Father of Jesus?

Sacrificing one persons rights, so as not to,
'violate' another's, is totally insane and ass backwards.

I don't have to accept gay marriage, anymore then,
having to accept men beating up on women,
women neglecting and abusing their children,
animal cruelty, litterbugs or pedophiles!
First of all, racism, being racist, is based on color idiot

Bigot

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

Intolerant

not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.

Tolerant

showing willingness to allow the existence of
opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.


How is it, people are bigots if they don't accept homosexuality
but, those who are gay or fine with it, aren't considered bigots
for not accepting, those who don't accept homosexuality?

Funny how having moral or ethical opinions is bigotry,
and perversion and passions are protected rights!

Be gay, I don't fucking care....
forcing it on society is what I have a problem with!

When Christians want to use the bible to discriminate against blacks and interracial couples, we call them what? Why is it different when it's gays? Why do believe that people that "don't accept homosexuality" should get special exemptions from our laws?

homosexuals aren't black nor are they in any way similar; they're just mentally ill and self-destructive sexual fetishists, not a 'minority', and were never deprived of any Constitutional rights of any kind. Your silly meme has no relevance, and never did.

And here we have it. This isn't about Christianity at all, it's about bigotry. If your church teaches you to hate homosexuals, you're church is teaching hate, not love. Jesus said "Love one another as I have loved you". He didn't qualify that by saying "love straight white people as I have loved you". There were no limits or qualifications on loving one another. YOU put that limit there.

It can reasonably be argues that bigotry and hate are a form of mental illness because homosexuality most definitely is not. There have been homosexuals in every society, in every culture, at every time in history. Research tells us that people really are born this way. So if you believe that God doesn't make mistakes, then God made homosexuals for a reason. As Jesus said "If you do this to the least among you, you do it to me", so by turning away gays, and refusing them service, you are turning away the Lord.

Jesus did not teach people to discriminate against the outcasts of society, he ministered to them. They were his friends and his disciples, not the rich, not the powerful, and not those who feigned a love of God while treating others with disdain.

I'm not a Christian so you'll just have to save your fake Teachable Moments for somebody else. And no they aren't' 'born that way' that's just fake news' if you had ever actually read any of the research on it you wouldn't be saying it here; you just like the sound of it and it fits your narcissistic self-image.

I'm not gay, but I have family and friends who are, and so do you but you don't know it or refuse to accept it. If being gay is a "choice" as you claim, when did you decide you wanted to be straight and not gay? How did you choose?

Personally, I have absolutely no recollection of making that choice. Growing up I wanted to date boys, get married and have children. I had no desire or interest in girls as sexual partners and have never "experimented" with women, even out of curiosity.

Gay family and friends pretty much say the same thing, except they were never interested in the opposite sex. Most fought it and fought it hard. I have one gay friend who lives a celibate life because his Christian beliefs won't allow him to live as a gay man. Many Christian gays live like this. Too many.

I think God wants people to be married. I don't think it's accident that Jesus' first miracle took place at a wedding. When you look at all of the ways and all of the studies which show married people being healthier, happier, and living longer when they're married, why wouldn't gay people want that too?

Why do heterosexuals get all worked up over gay people getting married? The anti-gay marriage bill was called the Defense of Marriage Act. Gay marriage has absolutely no impact on straight marriage at all. I live in a country which has had legal gay marriage for 12 years, and in that time, not ONE COMPANY has been sued for refusing service to gays, because they wouldn't dare.

Bigots in the US have tried to use freedom of religion as a basis for discrimination but that does fly either since the only class of sinner they refuse to serve is gay people. Other sinners are welcome, even though the Bible could not be cleared about adultery. When you pick and choose which sinners you will serve and the ONLY sinners you won't serve are gays, religion has nothing to do with your bigotry at all.

None of which changes the simple fact that the government has deemed, and prosecutes, that some religious practices are acceptable, and some are not, in violation of the First Amendment.

 

[Spare_change]

Why argue with religious bigots of the far right.

They believe what they believe, and this their right to do so.

That is why we have PA laws and the Constitution to keep them corralled.

Because they're perverting Christianity and making false claims of a violation of their religious freedoms. As a Church elder, member of the Session, and a former Sunday School teacher, you can't pull that religion crap on me, because it's total hypocrisy.

Finally, when I blew his religious argument right out of the water, he said he wasn't a Christian, yet he is prepared to try to argue that dealing with gays violates religious freedom. This is strong evidence of bigots simply using religion to violate PA laws, even when they aren't even religious.

Your religious "experience" counts for exactly nothing, nor does it enhance your position ... you should be allowed to practice your religion as you deem appropriate, and I should be afforded the same right.

The government has deemed otherwise.

 

[Theowl32]

Did we ever see CNN Anderson Cooper rushing and raising hell over muslim bakers refusing to bake a cake for faggots?



Just watch that little piece and see how they too refuse and the left doesn't say shit.
None of them. Quieter than a mouse pissing on cotton.

Which means what? Just like I have always said. Left wingers are unreal sacks of double talking hypocritical American hating shit who stand for nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

 

[boilermaker55]

Because you are not very smart, that is why.
It's about them protecting their rights legally.
Damn, it's so simple when one pushes their prejudices out of the equation.

I still can't work out why same sex people need to marry each other.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Actually, they aren't .... the government is interfering in the practice of religion. It is determining that some religious practices are acceptable and some are not.

It's no more difficult than that.

So in Piggie Park v. Newman where someone claimed serving black people was against their religious beliefs, that would be interfering with their religious beliefs no?

And if someone didn't want to serve black people in their establishment, but not based on religious beliefs and the government provided the exception for one without exempting the other - wouldn't that be unequal treatment under the law?

Then there is the case of Bob Jones University with discriminated against non-whites and interracial couples based on their religious beliefs.



Does claiming a religious belief exempt you form all kinds of different laws or only laws regarding homosexuals?



>>>>

 

[boilermaker55]

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why argue with religious bigots of the far right.

They believe what they believe, and this their right to do so.

That is why we have PA laws and the Constitution to keep them corralled.

Because they're perverting Christianity and making false claims of a violation of their religious freedoms. As a Church elder, member of the Session, and a former Sunday School teacher, you can't pull that religion crap on me, because it's total hypocrisy.

Finally, when I blew his religious argument right out of the water, he said he wasn't a Christian, yet he is prepared to try to argue that dealing with gays violates religious freedom. This is strong evidence of bigots simply using religion to violate PA laws, even when they aren't even religious.

Your religious "experience" counts for exactly nothing, nor does it enhance your position ... you should be allowed to practice your religion as you deem appropriate, and I should be afforded the same right.

The government has deemed otherwise.

When you are in the public space, you are held accountable to public rules, Spare. That is not going to change.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The federal judiciary agree with me generally and say "nuh uh" to your 'whuuuut?"

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Did we ever see CNN Anderson Cooper rushing and raising hell over muslim bakers refusing to bake a cake for faggots?



Just watch that little piece and see how they too refuse and the left doesn't say shit.
None of them. Quieter than a mouse pissing on cotton.

Which means what? Just like I have always said. Left wingers are unreal sacks of double talking hypocritical American hating shit who stand for nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

"Last week, Crowder posted an undercover video in which he visited several Muslim-owned bakeries in the Islamic hotspot of Dearborn, Michigan, posing as a man who planned to “wed” his boyfriend and wanted a cake made to honor their homosexual relationship."

"Civil Rights Guaranteed by Law

Michigan law prohibits discrimination in employment, education, housing, public accommodations, and public service. The Michigan Department of Civil Rights has authority to accept complaints based on unlawful consideration of religion, race, color, national origin, arrest record, genetic information, sex, age, height, weight, marital status and disability. Discrimination on the basis of disability must be related to the person's ability to perform on the job or use facilities which cannot be reasonably altered (1963 Const., Art. II, and Art. V, Section 29; 1976 PA 220 and PA 453; and Rules Governing Organization and Procedures of the MCRC)."


Psst - It's not illegal to discriminate against homosexuals under Michigan Public Accommodation laws. Unlike Oregon (Sweetcakes), Colorado (Masterpiece Cakes), Nevada (Elane Photopgraphy), and Washington (Florist, the name escapes me).



Muslim bakers don’t want to make your gay ‘wedding’ cake, either; where are the protests? (video)
MDCR - For Victims of Unlawful Discrimination


>>>>

 

[boilermaker55]

Childish comments to try and prove your point does not "prove your argument.

The federal judiciary agree with me generally and say "nuh uh" to your 'whuuuut?"

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The federal judiciary agrees that civil liberties in the public space must be protected.

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Perhaps you would understand the facts, I was hoping with that comment.

Obviously you do.

Step off.

Childish comments to try and prove your point does not "prove your argument.

The federal judiciary agree with me generally and say "nuh uh" to your 'whuuuut?"

Your argument always has been and always will be lame.
No one is stopping them from practicing their faith.
NO ONE.
The law is prohibiting discrimination.

It is no more difficult than you can't use your religious beliefs in a public space to limit the civil liberties of others.

Not difficult at all.