Governor To Cut Collective Baragaining.

[boedicca]

Rabbi, these public sector folks are workers, and we all know that any place where one has a supervisor, bullying and intimidation can take place.

There needs to be, to coin a phrase, checks and balances....contracts. This implies bargaining.
Coolidge and Reagan pretty much obviated strikes...

there must be some kind of middle ground.
In NY we have a Taylor Law which prevents strikes, and the next problem is how to limit the kind of contributions to public officials that put us into these straits.

Remember this:

SEIU President Andy Stern: “We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama- $60.7 million, to be exact- and we’re proud of it.”

Its simply amazing.

Unions are what gave you the rights to file a complaint against your employer.

Unions are what gave you the right to have a livable wage, instead of the "free market" give you only a nickel a day. Because their is no such thing as a free market because they don't want to pay anybody but take all their money.

Seriously decertifying unions give workers absolutely no rights, minimum wage eliminated, our toddlers working in sweat shops once again and no clean working environments.

I know you Republicans want to destroy America and turn it into a third world country, but lets not make it so obvious.

Did you see post #11?

Kind of obviates your post, doesn't it.

If people really wanted to join unions, unions would not have lobbied DC to pass the awful Card Check Bill which would eliminate secret ballots for union elections.

 

[rhodescholar]

Great. Get more people working for less money. Get more people into that half of the American households who pay NO federal income taxes. That'll really help.

As in the other thread, you and many others seem to think that the purpose of the government is to create jobs for SOME people, as opposed to providing SERVICES for ALL of its constituents.

Public unions have absolutely no right to exist, and it is no surprise that no matter what forum I visit all over the web, the liberals are posting the same nonsensical, deflective talking points pretending to tie public employee unions with the middle class at large.

The truth is directly opposite, where the more the government wastes on benefits, salaries, and pensions for public workers, the less it has to provide basic services, like schools and road repair that the middle class at large benefits from.

No rational individual should or would ever confuse the greed and appalling objectives of the protected class of people known as public employee unions with working people or the middle class in this country.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Its simply amazing.

Unions are what gave you the rights to file a complaint against your employer.

Unions are what gave you the right to have a livable wage, instead of the "free market" give you only a nickel a day. Because their is no such thing as a free market because they don't want to pay anybody but take all their money.

Seriously decertifying unions give workers absolutely no rights, minimum wage eliminated, our toddlers working in sweat shops once again and no clean working environments.

I know you Republicans want to destroy America and turn it into a third world country, but lets not make it so obvious.

Did you see post #11?

Kind of obviates your post, doesn't it.

If people really wanted to join unions, unions would not have lobbied DC to pass the awful Card Check Bill which would eliminate secret ballots for union elections.

Amen, Sis!

 

[boedicca]

I hope he's successful - and that union decertification spreads across the country.

Why? So more Americans work for less money? So even more American households need 2 spouses working outside the home to be able to afford to raise a family?

What is it with conservatives that they are so eager to see Americans working more for less money?

So we are able to reduce the tax burden on the median American family to well below the current 40% level (an obscene amount that is higher than the tax burden on Medieval Serfs.)

 

[rhodescholar]

Rabbi, these public sector folks are workers, and we all know that any place where one has a supervisor, bullying and intimidation can take place.

There are plenty of methods that can be established to deal with such issues that do not include public employee unions.

In NY we have a Taylor Law which prevents strikes, and the next problem is how to limit the kind of contributions to public officials that put us into these straits.

And the subway POS workers still went on strike a few years back. Did you enjoy walking across the Brooklyn Bridge to work that week when it was like 10 degrees out?

SEIU President Andy Stern: “We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama- $60.7 million, to be exact- and we’re proud of it.”

A perfect example of why public employee unions should be immediately dissolved. Having the same people lobby the legislatures they helped place in office is a fundamental conflict of interest. It is also why I believe that all states like NY with large public employee unions should immediately rip up their contracts - or declare bankruptcy to do so - as they were not negotiated in good faith.

 

[rhodescholar]

The old actual service worker body shield bromide.What about the army of bureaucrats that hide behind the people who actually perform a public service? They out number the productive ones.

You have no fucking idea...

What the poster you responded to either doesn't know or doesn't want to admit are facts like these:

- NYC has 369,000 public employees - that is a larger volume of people than most cities in the US, but as a ratio is also equally as bad -1 out of every 40 residents works for the city

- there are over 104 agencies in the NYC government, including totally useless ones like "Latin Media"

- there were more net moving vans of people leaving NY than any other state for years

- NYC has the highest combined tax rate of any city

- 1% of NYC residents pay over 50% of the taxes into the city

- Westchester county pays the highest property taxes in the US

All of these painful facts that public employee union defenders prefer to obfuscate and deny - are emblematic of the types of bad leadership, socialist environments and huge numbers of public employees that most of the blue states near bankruptcy, like NY, NJ, CA and IL operate in.

 

[rhodescholar]

why?.....do the bosses in the Govt treat their employees better than the public sector?...are working conditions so great,are the Employees treated with so much respect that everyone is just happy to be at work?....is that why Unions should be banned in the Public Sector?.....

Why? Do bosses in the private sector treat their employees any worse? There is a reason why 91% of private sector workers - as per the OP's poll - do not wish to join a union.

Unions have no business whatsoever in the public sector, none:

The Beholden State by Steven Malanga, City Journal Spring 2010

"STEVEN MALANGA

The Beholden State

How public-sector unions broke California

The camera focuses on an official of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), California’s largest public-employee union, sitting in a legislative chamber and speaking into a microphone. “We helped to get you into office, and we got a good memory,” she says matter-of-factly to the elected officials outside the shot. “Come November, if you don’t back our program, we’ll get you out of office.’"

===================================

I will continue to bash this article and the arsenal of facts at my disposal over the heads of all and any defenders of public employee unions. They serve no purpose outside of perpetuating outsize benefits, salaries, and pensions for workers whose skill sets and marketplace position would not warrant - funded by the theft of my tax dollars.

 

[rhodescholar]

Tell me, once you have broken the teachers' unions, and teaching is a lower paying job, with fewer benefits, and less job security,

The marketplace will determine what salaries and benefits they get - just like for everyone else. If only poor candidates are attracted, then starting salaries will rise, really not too hard to grasp.

what incentives do you plan to use to get the best and brightest in America to become teachers??

And the LIFO work rules that that fucking **** Mulgrew and the UFT and other teachers' unions want to retain will attract young teachers into the profession? WTF are you talking about?

 

[rhodescholar]

Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.

Only a fool cannot understand the difference between a public and private employee, and why unions make no rational sense and cannot be justified in the public sector.

 

[rhodescholar]

Wisconsin has no budget crisis.
Why aren't republicons against subsidies to Exxon? Why are they against working people?

Are you here to be a trolling ****? The budget deficit is $137 million this year, and $3 billion next year.

 

[rhodescholar]

So you favor cutting peoples wages and benefits. Just a couple of questions, do you work, and do you call yourself a capitalist?

Like most adults over 12 who have ever had a real job, we favor lower taxes so that companies can earn a profit and hire more people, creating efficient private sector jobs.

Interestingly how all blue states - and nations like Greece and Spain - with enormous public sectors and spending - are bankrupt...

 

[rhodescholar]

This is just another front in the internationalist money interests' war on American labor.

WE (as in the American working class) is too prosperous, by global standards. WE are an affront to the international capitalists' interests, because we still cling to a bit more prosperity than most of the rest of the world's working classes.

Bringing down the industrial labor unions, and destroying that 'overpaid' segment of the American working class has been relatively easy, since the jobs can be exported to the worlds of 30 cents an hour, etc.

The service sector, which includes much of the public sector, is a bit more challenging for the internationalists, since those jobs generally can't be exported. But those jobs, and the unions that represent those workers, are under attack too now.

Normally the public employee union apologizers spew talking points from the Soros/Moveon.org websites that while laughable, are somewhat entertaining - but this garbage is straight out of the Socialist Worker's Daily manual for fucking idiots...

 

[rhodescholar]

I don't envision the scenario playing out like you do. I see Nationally the Unions seeing this as the test bed. If it goes down, the rest of Unions will tumble. So I see a National protest to wake Republicans up to the reality of Union power. They may shut down America. It will only take a week to bring republicans to their knees.

Lets say you fired teachers. That still shuts the schools down, and makes Repugs look like a villain. And it would shut down government as well, from DMV to prisons to the capitol building. How is that going to look for the governor?

Nah, I don't see your picture among the cards. Protesting is a way of saying, you are being warned, pay attention, wake up people, shit is going to happen.

I have news for you kid, we have 20% unemployment in this country, we can fire EVERY fucking public employee tomorrow - and have 100 people show up to replace each and every one of them.

The nanosecond they go on some major strike, and yes, the shit WILL hit the fan - you might see people start attacking the striking public workers. The tolerance of these thieves is OVER.

 

[Trajan]

Fine. When your teachers and cops and firefighters are working for peanuts, enjoy the quality of education and law enforcement and public safety you get.

The old actual service worker body shield bromide.

What about the army of bureaucrats that hide behind the people who actually perform a public service? They out number the productive ones.

Now you're trying to tell me that conservatives are not out to make teachers work for less pay, fewer benefits, and less job security??

Liar.

Tell me, once you have broken the teachers' unions, and teaching is a lower paying job, with fewer benefits, and less job security,

what incentives do you plan to use to get the best and brightest in America to become teachers?? Given that you believe the teaching profession is inadequate already. Given that you believe quality education is vital to America's future.

Who among the brightest young people will want even more to become a teacher, once you conservatives have run that profession, as a career choice, into the ground?

Feel free to ignore this question, that will be proof enough you don't have a clue.

teachers in charter schools seem to do all right..or are they the downtrodden too?

Oh and "Waiting for Superman" is now on pay per view, I suggest a viewing.

 

[Trajan]

Conservatives, with their phoney touting of 'family values', want to do everything in their power to make raising a family as difficult as possible,

starting with making it virtually impossible for a family to afford to have a stay at home mom,

which anyone with a brain knows is as important as ANYTHING for the wellbeing of a family.

so once again....ALL Conservatives feel this way?....if you want to throw a tent up over everyone go talk to Dean....he is the best at doing that.....

You want to be a pro-labor conservative, fine. Go argue with the overwhelming majority of conservatives who are anti-labor.

I am a member now of a Public sector union, its blows, what hes doing is perfectly fine by me.

 

[rhodescholar]

I'm at home helping my wife recover from a double mastectomy, otherwise I would be in my classroom with my high school students. That's where the Wisconsin teachers ought to be right now. There's nothing wrong with chipping in a little on one's retirement and health care plan. My very large school system has not had a COLA or step increase in two years. I have refused to join the union for ideological reasons plus they want almost 100 bucks per month. They bug me twice a month to join extolling the benefits of membership like fighting for your salaries and great health care plans. I make plenty of money and am covered by Tricare Prime. You say, "what if you need them to provide legal representation if you screw up?" If I or any other teacher needs a lawyer, get rid of us. There are 20 or more teachers per job opening trying to work for this school district. Let's just do our job.

This is what a true American sounded like in 1776, in 1941, and god bless you, there are some still around today

People like this restore my faith in America - and humanity.

FUCK YOU public employee unions.

 

[rhodescholar]

You cannot be forced to join a union.

You are fucking either stupid, or trolling. Most jobs that in union shops REQUIRE you to join the union. Either that or quit.

Another liberal idiot talking out of their ass...

 

[old navy]

I'm at home helping my wife recover from a double mastectomy, otherwise I would be in my classroom with my high school students. That's where the Wisconsin teachers ought to be right now. There's nothing wrong with chipping in a little on one's retirement and health care plan. My very large school system has not had a COLA or step increase in two years. I have refused to join the union for ideological reasons plus they want almost 100 bucks per month. They bug me twice a month to join extolling the benefits of membership like fighting for your salaries and great health care plans. I make plenty of money and am covered by Tricare Prime. You say, "what if you need them to provide legal representation if you screw up?" If I or any other teacher needs a lawyer, get rid of us. There are 20 or more teachers per job opening trying to work for this school district. Let's just do our job.

Do you benefit from your district's union representation during contract negotiations?

Not my problem or concern. All I take is a direct deposit at the end of the month. No health, dental, nothing. I could make 20 to 30 thousand more doing something else. I like the time off but more importantly I am a good teacher and I make a difference.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So turns out the Governor's plan EXEMPTS police and firefighter unions??

Unions that just happened to support his campaign??

Can I get a big LOL?

...thank you.

This is SO going to backfire for the Right, as usual.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't envision the scenario playing out like you do. I see Nationally the Unions seeing this as the test bed. If it goes down, the rest of Unions will tumble. So I see a National protest to wake Republicans up to the reality of Union power. They may shut down America. It will only take a week to bring republicans to their knees.

Lets say you fired teachers. That still shuts the schools down, and makes Repugs look like a villain. And it would shut down government as well, from DMV to prisons to the capitol building. How is that going to look for the governor?

Nah, I don't see your picture among the cards. Protesting is a way of saying, you are being warned, pay attention, wake up people, shit is going to happen.

I have news for you kid, we have 20% unemployment in this country, we can fire EVERY fucking public employee tomorrow - and have 100 people show up to replace each and every one of them.

The nanosecond they go on some major strike, and yes, the shit WILL hit the fan - you might see people start attacking the striking public workers. The tolerance of these thieves is OVER.

Really? You can replace every teacher, policeman, corrections officer, firefighter, for starters,

tomorrow?

lol, will they be documented, dumbass?