Governor To Cut Collective Baragaining.

[PoliticalChic]

"During a visit Tuesday to Wausau, Gov. Scott Walker defended his proposal to strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees....outline his plan to limit unions' negotiating powers.

... his eventual goal is to make Wisconsin a "right-to-work" state in which payment of union dues can't be made a condition for employment where organized labor is represented.

[Republican Scott] Suder, a 13-year member of the Assembly, described the plan as "painful to legislate" because it asks people to pay more toward their benefits while the economy still is struggling. But he said Walker's proposal is needed to address a projected $3.7 billion budget deficit.

Suder said he would consider changes raised by other state lawmakers, such as adjusting the proportion of health insurance premiums and pensions that employees would be required to pay. Under Walker's proposal, public employees would pay 12.6 percent of their health care premiums and contribute 5.6 percent of their annual salaries to pensions."No one likes to say, 'we're going to be paying more' -- if you look at the national average, I don't understand the argument as to how this is going to be more painful than losing jobs and massive layoffs," Suder said."
Gov. Scott Walker defends budget plan during Wausau visit | wausaudailyherald.com | Wausau Daily Herald
(emphasis mine)

This is going to hurt a lot of hard working folks, but the blame should be laid at the feet of the union leaders and public officials, including our President, who have shown disrespect for wokers and employers in the public sector...

It is unfortunate that needed adjustments can't be more gradual, but the pendulum swings...

Not sure it should be cut out completely. However it is pretty clear. Especially when it comes to public Sector unions, that their demands have gotten a bit out of hand. IMO. They are paid far more than Private sector counter parts, and have much better health and retirement benefits, and the tax payer pays the bill for it all.

Payroll and Benefits for Public Employees is a huge part of State Deficit problems. No matter where we turn to make cuts and get budgets in order. Someone will scream we are heartless bastards.

Statistics bear you out:

1. The average federal employee earned $81,258 per year in 2009. The average private-sector worker earned $50,462. When benefits are added, the private-industry worker gets $10,500, while the federal employee gets $42,000- or more! Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

a. The disparity has grown from 66% in 2000, to 101% in 2009. Federal Employees Continue to Prosper | Cato @ Liberty

b. When you compare job-to-job, which is difficult as job titles are hard to compare, total compensation for federal employees is 50% higher than private sector counterparts. Even considering skill, education, and seniority, it’s still a large disparity. USAToday, op.cit.

c. “An apples-to-apples comparison shows that the federal pay system gives many federal workers significantly more compensation than they would get in the private sector. The total premium costs taxpayers $40 billion (according to Richwine and Biggs) or $47 billion (Sherk) per year above market rates.” Federal Pay Still Inflated After Accounting for Skills | The Heritage Foundation

 

[PoliticalChic]

So you favor cutting peoples wages and benefits. Just a couple of questions, do you work, and do you call yourself a capitalist?

I am in favor of bringing bringing public sector wages and benefits more in line with those of private...

but not by fiat.

As an example, in NYC the education supervisors agreed to give up tenure- voluntarily....they were offered a wage package that looked rosy enought for their union to sign on to same.

Compare that to the agressive cut and burn being suggested here....what happens to the contracts that the workers signed for cars, homes, college plans, loans, etc....

I want to see second and third stage thinking, as Dr. Sowell suggests, and not 'revenge.'

 

[old navy]

I'm at home helping my wife recover from a double mastectomy, otherwise I would be in my classroom with my high school students. That's where the Wisconsin teachers ought to be right now. There's nothing wrong with chipping in a little on one's retirement and health care plan. My very large school system has not had a COLA or step increase in two years. I have refused to join the union for ideological reasons plus they want almost 100 bucks per month. They bug me twice a month to join extolling the benefits of membership like fighting for your salaries and great health care plans. I make plenty of money and am covered by Tricare Prime. You say, "what if you need them to provide legal representation if you screw up?" If I or any other teacher needs a lawyer, get rid of us. There are 20 or more teachers per job opening trying to work for this school district. Let's just do our job.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't you find it amusing that the people who want to force others to join a union and pay union dues are calling people who want workers to have choice as to whether or not they want to join a union and pay dues the bad guys?

 

[bodecea]

I'm at home helping my wife recover from a double mastectomy, otherwise I would be in my classroom with my high school students. That's where the Wisconsin teachers ought to be right now. There's nothing wrong with chipping in a little on one's retirement and health care plan. My very large school system has not had a COLA or step increase in two years. I have refused to join the union for ideological reasons plus they want almost 100 bucks per month. They bug me twice a month to join extolling the benefits of membership like fighting for your salaries and great health care plans. I make plenty of money and am covered by Tricare Prime. You say, "what if you need them to provide legal representation if you screw up?" If I or any other teacher needs a lawyer, get rid of us. There are 20 or more teachers per job opening trying to work for this school district. Let's just do our job.

Do you benefit from your district's union representation during contract negotiations?

 

[EriktheRed]

And surprise! It appears the good Governor is totally full of shit:

Unlike true austerity measures -- service rollbacks, furloughs, and other temporary measures that cause pain but save money -- rolling back worker's bargaining rights by itself saves almost nothing on its own. But Walker's doing it anyhow, to knock down a barrier and allow him to cut state employee benefits immediately.

Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.

Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights | TPMDC


Here's the memo cited in the above link:

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf


Wonder if our so-called Liberal Media is gonna talk about this inconvenient fact.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Today in a America, unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions and depriving working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice. I have no use for those-regardless of their political party-who hold some vain and foolish dream of spinning the clock back to the days when organized labor was huddled, almost as a helpless mass.
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Are you kidding? They'd throw Eisenhower under the bus today...after denigrating his war record.

who is they?.....

 

[Mr Natural]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

So it's better to force people to join a union?

Tell me what freedoms do you actually want people to have?

 

[Jarhead]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

No one forces anyone to take any job in any state.
That seems to be something that is lost in your little theory.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

No one forces anyone to take any job in any state.
That seems to be something that is lost in your little theory.

But one can be forced to join a union in order to get a job.

 

[Jarhead]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

No one forces anyone to take any job in any state.
That seems to be something that is lost in your little theory.

But one can be forced to join a union in order to get a job.

worse...

One opts to take a job...and then is forced to spend money on a union.

 

[EriktheRed]

Wonder what Gov. Walker thinks of this comparison:


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...-cairo-has-moved-to-madison-video.php?ref=fpa

 

[Harry Dresden]

Conservatives, with their phoney touting of 'family values', want to do everything in their power to make raising a family as difficult as possible,

starting with making it virtually impossible for a family to afford to have a stay at home mom,

which anyone with a brain knows is as important as ANYTHING for the wellbeing of a family.

so once again....ALL Conservatives feel this way?....if you want to throw a tent up over everyone go talk to Dean....he is the best at doing that.....

You want to be a pro-labor conservative, fine. Go argue with the overwhelming majority of conservatives who are anti-labor.

the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY are anti labor?.....are you sure about that?.....i think the OVERWHELMING majority are just for the benefits and pay to be more in line with what the private sector is getting.....and this would no doubt include the OVERWHELMING majority of Liberals too.....no one is against Labor .....laborers in the workforce include Liberals AND Conservatives.....i know that is hard to believe Carb.....Conservatives as part of the Labor force........

 

[Avatar4321]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

So it's better to force people to join a union?

Tell me what freedoms do you actually want people to have?

Why do you presume he wants them to have any freedom?

 

[Harry Dresden]

I know you Republicans want to destroy America and turn it into a third world country, but lets not make it so obvious.

really?....the Republicans do?.....i live in S.California....which is pretty heavily Democratic Controlled....and there is already parts here that look like you are in the Third World......so i guess the Democrats here got a head start....but i guess you just overlooked that.....Right?....

 

[NYcarbineer]

The old actual service worker body shield bromide.

What about the army of bureaucrats that hide behind the people who actually perform a public service? They out number the productive ones.

Now you're trying to tell me that conservatives are not out to make teachers work for less pay, fewer benefits, and less job security??

Liar.

Tell me, once you have broken the teachers' unions, and teaching is a lower paying job, with fewer benefits, and less job security,

what incentives do you plan to use to get the best and brightest in America to become teachers?? Given that you believe the teaching profession is inadequate already. Given that you believe quality education is vital to America's future.

Who among the brightest young people will want even more to become a teacher, once you conservatives have run that profession, as a career choice, into the ground?

Feel free to ignore this question, that will be proof enough you don't have a clue.

No we should keep the teachers unions so that the worst can not be fired. Teachers unions do more to protect bad teachers that help good ones.

Like I said, feel free to ignore the question.

It's amazing. Conservatives pride themselves in their understanding and appreciation of markets and market forces,

and yet they seem almost unanimously to believe that just the opposite of market forces will make for better teachers in this country...

...pay them less, take away their benefits, take away their rights, make teaching a much less attractive career choice, and according to conservatives,

more and better people will want to be teachers!!

Absolute stupidity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

So it's better to force people to join a union?

Tell me what freedoms do you actually want people to have?

You cannot be forced to join a union.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It's not surprising that the former Confederacy make up a good portion of the right to work states.

If you can't get your labor for free, cheap is the next best thing.

On what basis do you think that workers, in general, want to join a union?

Although I'm sure you are very busy, you might take a look at post #11, which documents that that is not the case,

You might wish to ponder, as well, whether or not the population in "the former Confederacy" is comparable to the population residing in those states today....and realize the absurdity of any conclusion based on that comment.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Good for him.
There is no reason that public sector workers should have collective bargaining rights or unions to begin with.

Rabbi, these public sector folks are workers, and we all know that any place where one has a supervisor, bullying and intimidation can take place.

There needs to be, to coin a phrase, checks and balances....contracts. This implies bargaining.
Coolidge and Reagan pretty much obviated strikes...

there must be some kind of middle ground.
In NY we have a Taylor Law which prevents strikes, and the next problem is how to limit the kind of contributions to public officials that put us into these straits.

Remember this:

SEIU President Andy Stern: “We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama- $60.7 million, to be exact- and we’re proud of it.”

Its simply amazing.

Unions are what gave you the rights to file a complaint against your employer.

Unions are what gave you the right to have a livable wage, instead of the "free market" give you only a nickel a day. Because their is no such thing as a free market because they don't want to pay anybody but take all their money.

Seriously decertifying unions give workers absolutely no rights, minimum wage eliminated, our toddlers working in sweat shops once again and no clean working environments.

I know you Republicans want to destroy America and turn it into a third world country, but lets not make it so obvious.

Did you see post #11?

Kind of obviates your post, doesn't it.