Gorging At The Public Trough

[Oddball]

When did I say I was okay with insider trading, fraud or theft? You've seen me around, Wry Catcher....you know better than to call me a Big Business Worshipper. This is not envy talking -- we're in THE SAME POSITION, you and I.

I'm telling you, taking all the money you and your coworkers have been looking forward to is TOO MUCH. Dial back your expectations like everyone else...or it will likely be done TO you.

You're getting an object lesson in the attitude of entitlement borne by the moocher class.

Not a pretty sight, is it?

Thank you sharing. Oh, and nice to see the real you under that facade you usually present.

I present no façade, Vermin...What you see is what you get.

Please, continue to demonstrate your parasitic attitude of entitlement for all to see.

 

[Big Fitz]

I can't and didn't source NYC, I reported on the system I'm familiar with. You're correct when you suggest the final base salary can and is different in different systems. I simply provided one example, one I know and one I benefit from to disabuse those who believe as does Maddie the propaganda being used against public employees.
And yes, I bumped my salary, I sold 1/3 of my vacation (a perk only managers and above are provided) and 40 hours of Floating Holiday to bump by final years salary by one month. Floating holiday was substitued for Lincolns Birthday and Admission Day which once were holidays, instead each government employee earns 2 hours a month in lieu of those days off. Also any vacation not used is paid-off at retirement further bumping ones final compensation.
All of that said, all of those who are complaining failure to recognize how the RW plutocrats pit workers against each other. Propaganda works when one lets their emotion replace reason.

Cities going broke and needed support programs being cut to support grossly overpaid retirements are not propaganda chum....they are facts.

Cities and Counties signed contracts, much as a homeowner does when s/he secures a loan. When someone walks away from a mortgage, the power elite characterizes them as miscreants and considers such behavior morally corrupt. Seems as if the New Right finds such behavior is fine if voiding valid contracts hurts a targeted few; I find it nothing short of support of ethical relativism and

When business chooses to move to Mexico or India or China this action is considered a sound business decision, moral judgments are rarely made and when they are the new RW attacks the messenger as envious or socialistic and wanting government to control business.

When someone spends a career in government and is attacked because they accepted the terms of a contract offered they are called greedy, when a bank enforces a contract they are considered to act within the rule of law.

Cities and counties can and are negotiating take aways from the contracts signed during my career and future employees will not enjoy the benefits which convinced me to stay in government service. The goal of the plutocrats is to privatize everything; and those who support such movements may one day find that what they wished for was a deal negotiated by the devil.

Oh NOW you want to respect contract law?

 

[Madeline]

Wry Catcher wrote:

I can't and didn't source NYC, I reported on the system I'm familiar with. You're correct when you suggest the final base salary can and is different in different systems. I simply provided one example, one I know and one I benefit from to disabuse those who believe as does Maddie the propaganda being used against public employees.
And yes, I bumped my salary, I sold 1/3 of my vacation (a perk only managers and above are provided) and 40 hours of Floating Holiday to bump by final years salary by one month. Floating holiday was substitued for Lincolns Birthday and Admission Day which once were holidays, instead each government employee earns 2 hours a month in lieu of those days off. Also any vacation not used is paid-off at retirement further bumping ones final compensation.
All of that said, all of those who are complaining failure to recognize how the RW plutocrats pit workers against each other. Propaganda works when one lets their emotion replace reason.

Bullshit. The fact is, the interests of the citizens of Cincinnati are in tension with the interests of that city's public employees due to retire.

Selfishness offends me, Wry Catcher. I am sick of people saying we should get to solving our problems but that their interests are inviolate sacred cows. I have a state pension myself, along with medical insurance. I fully expect -- and have planned for -- the loss of my insurance at some point. I would be willing to consider, and might even support, a reduction in my pension benefit if my former employer were severely on the ropes.

Tell me, IYO, how many school lunch programs should be reduced to fund the bumps in Cincinnati? How many libraries closed? How many street repairs deferred?

You continue to blame one cause for the nation-wide economic crisis. Can you possibly think of other causes for the plight of cities and counties? You've found a simple solution to a series of serious problems and the only reason is Wry Catcher retired after 33 years in a government job, a job which enticed him with an excellent healthcare and retirement program, all of which were offered to him in 1973 during a time of stagflation.
Now you claim Wry is selfish in doing so and deprives children of lunch. At one time I thought you were a bit smarter than that. My mistake.

Apparently, there is no lever that can lift you up to see beyond your own self-interest, WC. I pity you. I cannot, in good conscience, accept money that I know will result in severe deprivation for the citizens I once proudly served.

If you can, that's on you.

 

[Madeline]

I'm sorry. Maybe you might consider an alternative to contract law. Any contract which offends you ought to by fiat be null and void. Stating that contracts with public employees deny kids in your family a future is total bullshit - you've been delivered a scapegoat and can't see beyond the emotional appeal of the propaganda of the RW and the GOP.
New contracts will not offer the benefits I recieved, suggesting I'm selfish and attacking my character is typical of many on this MB. I'm saddened that envy has put you in that grouping.
You're okay with bonuses and insider trading, allowing the power elite to garner great wealth many times by playing golf or sleeping, or selling derivatives known to be worthless yet attack those who respond to great needs in the middle of the night at risk to themselves.

When did I say I was okay with insider trading, fraud or theft? You've seen me around, Wry Catcher....you know better than to call me a Big Business Worshipper. This is not envy talking -- we're in THE SAME POSITION, you and I.

I'm telling you, taking all the money you and your coworkers have been looking forward to is TOO MUCH. Dial back your expectations like everyone else...or it will likely be done TO you.

You're getting an object lesson in the attitude of entitlement borne by the moocher class.

Not a pretty sight, is it?

I was a "moocher" myself, Oddball. I'm quite proud of the work I did -- and I worked my ass off. I never had an entire Xmas at home -- and I was not a safety worker. I was a lawyer, and prosecuted (administratively) financial crimes.

I dun support eliminating these pensions altogether, but I also cannot see the sense of forcing a city, county or state to its knees before agreeing mayhaps these pensions are too rich.

 

[Oddball]

What is in everyone's self interest is keeping currently working cops, firefighters and EMS personnel on the job.

What Danny Vermin is exhibiting amounts to the plain old avarice he so easily recognizes in others, yet never sees in himself...He's a Freudian stereotype come to life.

 

[Madeline]

What is in everyone's self interest is keeping currently working cops, firefighters and EMS personnel on the job.

What Danny Vermin is exhibiting amounts to the plain old avarice he so easily recognizes in others, yet never sees in himself...He's a Freudian stereotype come to life.

I think that's harsh, Oddball. Everyone is motivated to see things "their way", and WC is no exception. He wishes that another solution could be found and doesn't think retiring employees should shoulder all the loss and pain of bad decision-making and a bad economy.

Fair enough, but they should should some. It cannot all be shifted onto citizens.

 

[Oddball]

Not harsh at all.

This is just another instance of Vermin accusing others of the behavior he is exhibiting.

It's become too easy to spot anymore.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So we punish those who do save up their vacations and such for when they retire?

It's not punishing jack shit.

Use it or lose it.

Was that the rules there?

Your rules do not rule.

If they played by the rules, debts must be paid.

Hey OddBAll Dude... here we have you saying exactly what?

 

[Madeline]

It's not punishing jack shit.

Use it or lose it.

Was that the rules there?

Your rules do not rule.

If they played by the rules, debts must be paid.

Hey OddBAll Dude... here we have you saying exactly what?

He is saying "use your sick leave in the year you earn it or lose it", Dante.

Lose your decoder ring again?

 

[Trajan]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

Few in the 'real world' have the ability to pass our tests, physical, psychological and background to qualify for safety jobs. Of those who do many fail to get through the year or sometimes more of probation.

since when is being a mall cop that friggin hard?

 

[Madeline]

My comment is based upon the bullshit practice of bureaucrats sandbagging sick and vacation days and taking away a huge payday.

Few in the real world get to do so.

Pretty lame hijack attempt, Vermin.

Few in the 'real world' have the ability to pass our tests, physical, psychological and background to qualify for safety jobs. Of those who do many fail to get through the year or sometimes more of probation.

since when is being a mall cop that friggin hard?

Being a cop is hard. Work is work and government exists "in the real world". Can we give up the pissing contest now, boys?

 

[Wry Catcher]

By squirreling away hundreds of hours of unused holiday, vacation and sick days, more than 900 Cincinnati employees - nearly one in five - may receive at least six months' extra pay when they retire, costing taxpayers more than $93 million.

A total of 120 of them can look forward to at least a year's extra salary upon retirement thanks to contract provisions that make it relatively easy for workers to accumulate and cash in huge amounts of unused leave, an Enquirer analysis of city records shows.

The City Council-approved contracts include benefits that, among other things, permit manyworkers to draw 13 sick days a year, grant three weeks' worth of compensatory time to public safety employees for holidays whether they work them or not, and entitle veteran police officers to nearly 10½ weeks of various leaves annually.

City to pay out $93M to retirees | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

I urge you to read the entire article; your head may explode, though. Be forewarned.

"These benefits are a form of deferred compensation for the employees," [said Marianne Steger, director of health care and public policy for AFSCME Ohio Council 8] said. "At some point, that has to come back to them."

O really? Do you squirel away sick and comp time at your job so you can get paid an additional year's worth of salary when you retire? Do you expect the sick leave you earn at $10 an hour to be paid in 20 or 30 years at $60 an hour? Or that you can "fluff up" your pension benefit payout by manipulating the "highest three years" calculation?

Almost $100 Million is now owed by the city of Cinncinnati to its retiring employees....and it had $50 Million + shortfalls in each of the past two years. I may not be a math whiz, but aren't we saying that if these abuses did not occur, Cincinnati could balance its budget?

"It's absolutely indefensible and offensive to taxpayers," said City Councilman Jeff Berding, who has repeatedly pressed for the city to take a harder line in contract talks. "It violates every standard of economic common sense and shows complete disregard for the city. People who just watched us struggle to try to cut $54 million from the budget have every right to look at this and be outraged."

What say you?

I'd say the City Council in Cinncinnati are bonkers - they should all appear on the Jerry Springer show and expose themselves.
That said, I've never heard of being paid-off in dollars for sick leave earned and not used. In Safety we earned eight hours each month and it accumulated until used or one retired. Upon retirement, unused sick leave was converted to service time.
Unused vacation was paid-off, but one could only accumulated two times the annual amount.
Few people fail to use sick leave over a 25 year career and most use their annual vacation every year too.
Methinks your post is a bit more hyperbole than reality.

 

[Big Fitz]

I want to know how the hell these tags get attached to the threads.

That said, how about Rhode Island? Considering laying off ALL public teachers I know it's a ploy but to even CONSIDER it, let alone voice it??? That's a huge thing.

 

[Madeline]

I'd say the City Council in Cinncinnati are bonkers - they should all appear on the Jerry Springer show and expose themselves.
That said, I've never heard of being paid-off in dollars for sick leave earned and not used. In Safety we earned eight hours each month and it accumulated until used or one retired. Upon retirement, unused sick leave was converted to service time.
Unused vacation was paid-off, but one could only accumulated two times the annual amount.
Few people fail to use sick leave over a 25 year career and most use their annual vacation every year too.
Methinks your post is a bit more hyperbole than reality.

Alas, it is not. I myself cashed in accumulated sick and annual leave at retirement, Wry Catcher. It is not -- NOT, not, not -- a rare phenomena in public employment, and it is abusive.

 

[Madeline]

I want to know how the hell these tags get attached to the threads.

That said, how about Rhode Island? Considering laying off ALL public teachers I know it's a ploy but to even CONSIDER it, let alone voice it??? That's a huge thing.

It's been done before, I'm fairly sure -- I know it's at least been threatened. I'd have to go research it to be sure. Usually, after the strike is settled, the employer rehires most of the same employees at most of the same salary and benefits.

T'aint as if teachers, cops, firefighters, etc. can just take up knitting for a living, my Big Fizzy friend.

And yes, the tag on this thread is just mean-spirited.

 

[Trajan]

since when is being a mall cop that friggin hard?

Being a cop is hard. Work is work and government exists "in the real world". Can we give up the pissing contest now, boys?

look, chasing skateboarders off the parking ramps and scarfing free snacks at the food court isn't rocket science maddy.......I am sure he was very good at monitoring the movie lines and what not, but lets not go overboard eh?

 

[Madeline]

Being a cop is hard. Work is work and government exists "in the real world". Can we give up the pissing contest now, boys?

look, chasing skateboarders off the parking ramps and scarfing free snacks at the food court isn't rocket science maddy.......I am sure he was very good at monitoring the movie lines and what not, but lets not go overboard eh?

Be nice, Trajan. Not everyone can be a Master Of The Universe up there on the 34th floor like you. I couldn't.

 

[Big Fitz]

I want to know how the hell these tags get attached to the threads.

That said, how about Rhode Island? Considering laying off ALL public teachers I know it's a ploy but to even CONSIDER it, let alone voice it??? That's a huge thing.

It's been done before, I'm fairly sure -- I know it's at least been threatened. I'd have to go research it to be sure. Usually, after the strike is settled, the employer rehires most of the same employees at most of the same salary and benefits.

T'aint as if teachers, cops, firefighters, etc. can just take up knitting for a living, my Big Fizzy friend.

And yes, the tag on this thread is just mean-spirited.

True, I know it's been threatened before. Back in the early 90's I worked security for an iron foundry. The union was about to go on strike there, and the company, knowing it was coming went into mandatory overtime production in preface to the strike vote. You never SAW so many sewer lids in your life just stacked around.

Literally the day before the vote, the company announced it's sale to a much larger national firm and shut down of the century plus old 'plant 1' facility. The union was busted, because suddenly they didn't know what was going to happen if they were going to shut down everything and move or what, but everyone was clamoring to keep their jobs. In the end, everyone was retained, but the they did so at lower wages.

That said, I thought it was a dirty trick on the management's part, and see in a way the equivalency here. On the other hand, that iron foundry was making decent money and had growth potential for the future thanks to global exports and was generally doing fine. The difference here is that the states are not financially healthy, and are in danger of default and collapse. Unions in many states have been abusing the negotiation process at the expense of the tax payers, and this correction IS decades in the making since or decades the abuse and corruption of the system has been ignored.

Very much like slamming on the brakes or turning hard to avoid hitting the guard rail with a semi... with a 1000 foot cliff just on the other side. You pray to God it works, and you don't go over. All this because you didn't correct steering a long time beforehand because you were too busy talking on your cell, changing the radio and eating a burger. (I wonder if I have an axe to grind towards bad drivers?)