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just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal.
What exactly did they obstruct? Nothing.GOP Vows To Stay The Party of Obstruction!!!
What exactly CAN they obstruct? Nothing.
The Democrats don't need a single GOP vote, or any GOP support. Therefore the GOP cannot be an obstruction.
See?
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal.
"And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal."
I don't know why personal bankruptcy is bad...the GOP is always saying they are and trying to make it more difficult to do so. or am I incorrect?
I never said medical expenses were the o-n-l-y reason(s) for filing bankruptcy. A red herring or an honest question? I ask because, if it were an honest question, why not pose it as a question instead of a declarative statement?
Dante said:From what I understand...(the following comes from a discussion about a CA reform proposal) Several studiesincluding two published by Harvard Medical School and the Health Affairs journalput the number of bankruptcies due to medical causes at approximately 50 percent.
More civility from the left. Name calling is a powerful argument guys. Im sure you had to think long and hard to come up with it.
There is no profit in health insurance.
Most Insurance companies only return 2-4% profit annually. Do you really think that that measly amount will add up to the trillions government controlled health care will cost?
And yeah let's copy European health care. We can copy their value added tax too and their chronically high unemployment rates
Hell we could be the next Greece. Did you know that Greece's debt to GDP ratio was 13% and it's killing them?
The US debt to GDP ratio is 11% so we're knock knock knocking on that door.
It appears the GOP will do anything they think they can just to hurt the Democrats, even if it means more Americans without health care and Americans going bankrupt because of medical expenses.It is time to chill out, Republicans, Representative Bob Filner, Democrat of California, said. Let this bill work. Let our constituents finally get health care.
But there were no signs of a ceasefire. Senate Democrats said they would take up a budget reconciliation measure containing the final revisions to the health care overhaul shortly after Mr. Obama signs the main bill at the White House ceremony on Tuesday.
Far from sounding a conciliatory note, Senate Republicans said they would employ every procedural maneuver available to try to derail the reconciliation bill, or at least punch holes in it by knocking out key provisions.
Republicans Vow Repeal Effort Against Health Bill - NYTimes.com
I am starting to think the current GOP is so lustful of power, they would push American over a cliff just to get a taste of power back.
Can fascism be far behind if they ever win power back?
More civility from the left. Name calling is a powerful argument guys. Im sure you had to think long and hard to come up with it.
Your arguments get the treatment they deserve.
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal.
"And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal."
I don't know why personal bankruptcy is bad...the GOP is always saying they are and trying to make it more difficult to do so. or am I incorrect?
I never said medical expenses were the o-n-l-y reason(s) for filing bankruptcy. A red herring or an honest question? I ask because, if it were an honest question, why not pose it as a question instead of a declarative statement?
if you do not believe bankruptcy is a bad thing then why even bring it up in a discussion on health insurance.
And your quote was
Dante said:From what I understand...(the following comes from a discussion about a CA reform proposal) Several studiesincluding two published by Harvard Medical School and the Health Affairs journalput the number of bankruptcies due to medical causes at approximately 50 percent.
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
No, you said this:
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And then he denied saying that medical bills were the only cause of bankruptcy, which is true.
Then you once again twisted what he said.
More civility from the left. Name calling is a powerful argument guys. Im sure you had to think long and hard to come up with it.
Your arguments get the treatment they deserve.
i find it funny that the left has all of a sudden discovered civility
Pot......Kettle
"And really what's wrong with filing bankruptcy? it is completely legal."
I don't know why personal bankruptcy is bad...the GOP is always saying they are and trying to make it more difficult to do so. or am I incorrect?
I never said medical expenses were the o-n-l-y reason(s) for filing bankruptcy. A red herring or an honest question? I ask because, if it were an honest question, why not pose it as a question instead of a declarative statement?
if you do not believe bankruptcy is a bad thing then why even bring it up in a discussion on health insurance.
And your quote was
Dante said:From what I understand...(the following comes from a discussion about a CA reform proposal) Several studies—including two published by Harvard Medical School and the Health Affairs journal—put the number of bankruptcies due to medical causes at approximately 50 percent.
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
filing for personal bankruptcy and losing one's home is a terrible thing. trying to prevent individual Americans from using bankruptcy as a last resort while supporting Big Business doing it is what the GOP pushes. or am I incorrect?
playing semantic games?
medical bills whether without or with coverage should not be the cause or contributing cause of financial difficulties that lead to bankruptcy. especially when places like the dreaded country of Switzerland, do not have the same problem.
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
No, you said this:
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And then he denied saying that medical bills were the only cause of bankruptcy, which is true.
Then you once again twisted what he said.
He posted that 50% of bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. Not that medical bills were included in 50% of bankruptcies.
Read slowly and it's OK if your lips move.
So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
No, you said this:
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And then he denied saying that medical bills were the only cause of bankruptcy, which is true.
Then you once again twisted what he said.
He posted that 50% of bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. Not that medical bills were included in 50% of bankruptcies.
Read slowly and it's OK if your lips move.
More civility from the left. Name calling is a powerful argument guys. Im sure you had to think long and hard to come up with it.
Your arguments get the treatment they deserve.
i find it funny that the left has all of a sudden discovered civility
Pot......Kettle
people very rarely lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing if they don't want to.
www.medicalcostadvocate.com HealthNo, you said this:
And then he denied saying that medical bills were the only cause of bankruptcy, which is true.
Then you once again twisted what he said.
He posted that 50% of bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. Not that medical bills were included in 50% of bankruptcies.
Read slowly and it's OK if your lips move.
we're not programming code which is stupid GIGO, we are using conversation which includes inference, agreed understanding and nuance...all within a contextual framework.
when discussing bankruptcy it is assumed/agreed/inferred that there are other bills. When it is said medical expenses cause a bankruptcy, it does not negate the idea that other bills were there. What is meant is that the added expense...the result of an illness...of medical bills was teh cause of a bankruptcy.
semantic games like the ones you play are way too sophomoric for my tastes.
the problem with some people who live, work, breath computers, is they start acting like computers. GIGO
www.medicalcostadvocate.com HealthHe posted that 50% of bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. Not that medical bills were included in 50% of bankruptcies.
Read slowly and it's OK if your lips move.
we're not programming code which is stupid GIGO, we are using conversation which includes inference, agreed understanding and nuance...all within a contextual framework.
when discussing bankruptcy it is assumed/agreed/inferred that there are other bills. When it is said medical expenses cause a bankruptcy, it does not negate the idea that other bills were there. What is meant is that the added expense...the result of an illness...of medical bills was teh cause of a bankruptcy.
semantic games like the ones you play are way too sophomoric for my tastes.
the problem with some people who live, work, breath computers, is they start acting like computers. GIGO
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.
They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.
Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services, says Woolhandler. Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance.
However, Peter Cunningham, Ph.D., a senior fellow at the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy research organization in Washington, D.C., isnt completely convinced. He says its often hard to tell in which cases medical bills add to the bleak financial picture without being directly responsible for the bankruptcies.
Im not sure that it is correct to say that medical problems were the direct cause of all of these bankruptcies, he says. In most of these cases, its going to be medical expenses and other things, other debt that is accumulating.
Either way, he agrees that medical bills are an increasing problem for many people.
I think medical bills are something that a lot of families are having a lot of difficulty with and whether its the direct cause of bankruptcy or whether it helps to push them over the edge because they already were in a precarious financial situation, its a big concern and hopefully thats what medical reform will try to address, he says.
The study may overestimate the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills yet underestimate the financial burden of health care on American families, because most people struggle along but dont end up declaring bankruptcy, according to Cunningham.
Bankruptcy is the most extreme or final step for people who are having problems paying medical bills, he says. Medical bills and medical costs are an issue that can very easily and in pretty short order overwhelm a lot families who are on otherwise solid financial ground, including those with private insurance.
His groups research found that medical bills unduly stress 1 in 5 families.
shhhh, don't tell the others. They've had a back week.So you post that medical bills are the cause of 50% of bankruptcies but you never said they were?
No, you said this:
just because whatever percentage of bankruptcies included medical bills does not mean that medical bills were the sole reason for bankruptcy filings.
And then he denied saying that medical bills were the only cause of bankruptcy, which is true.
Then you once again twisted what he said.
Your arguments get the treatment they deserve.
i find it funny that the left has all of a sudden discovered civility
Pot......Kettle
Hey, I know both sides do it and I don't act like they don't. He (she?) made a thread recently, though, where (s)he spoke like your side's shit doesn't stink when it comes to violence and dirty tricks.
