GOP Vows To Stay The Party of Obstruction!!!

[Skull Pilot]

He posted that 50% of bankruptcies were caused by medical bills. Not that medical bills were included in 50% of bankruptcies.

Read slowly and it's OK if your lips move.

we're not programming code which is stupid GIGO, we are using conversation which includes inference, agreed understanding and nuance...all within a contextual framework.

when discussing bankruptcy it is assumed/agreed/inferred that there are other bills. When it is said medical expenses cause a bankruptcy, it does not negate the idea that other bills were there. What is meant is that the added expense...the result of an illness...of medical bills was teh cause of a bankruptcy.

semantic games like the ones you play are way too sophomoric for my tastes.

the problem with some people who live, work, breath computers, is they start acting like computers. GIGO

www.medicalcostadvocate.com Health

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.


Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.
They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.
Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
“That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study — 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services,” says Woolhandler. “Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance.”
However, Peter Cunningham, Ph.D., a senior fellow at the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy research organization in Washington, D.C., isn’t completely convinced. He says it’s often hard to tell in which cases medical bills add to the bleak financial picture without being directly responsible for the bankruptcies.
“I’m not sure that it is correct to say that medical problems were the direct cause of all of these bankruptcies,” he says. “In most of these cases, it’s going to be medical expenses and other things, other debt that is accumulating.”
Either way, he agrees that medical bills are an increasing problem for many people.
“I think medical bills are something that a lot of families are having a lot of difficulty with and whether it’s the direct cause of bankruptcy or whether it helps to push them over the edge because they already were in a precarious financial situation, it’s a big concern and hopefully that’s what medical reform will try to address,” he says.
The study may overestimate the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills yet underestimate the financial burden of health care on American families, because most people struggle along but don’t end up declaring bankruptcy, according to Cunningham.
“Bankruptcy is the most extreme or final step for people who are having problems paying medical bills,” he says. “Medical bills and medical costs are an issue that can very easily and in pretty short order overwhelm a lot families who are on otherwise solid financial ground, including those with private insurance.”
His group’s research found that medical bills unduly stress 1 in 5 families.

So the only thing that the bankruptcy was filed for was medical bills and nothing else was included right?

Wrong.

 

[Skull Pilot]

people very rarely lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing if they don't want to.

are you implying that people who lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing, want to lose their homes?

Yes it absolutely makes sense in some cases to give up one's house in a bankruptcy.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

people very rarely lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing if they don't want to.

are you implying that people who lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing, want to lose their homes?

Yes it absolutely makes sense in some cases to give up one's house in a bankruptcy.

in some cases, but you are ignoring much.

good bye

 

[Freedomlover]

Two things all on this thread know:

1. Dems were the party of no from 1995-2007. They opposed everything the Republicans tried to do to advance liberty and keep our nation safe.

2. One of the first things Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany after taking power was to nationalize healthcare. Dingell would know how effective that is in "controlling the people" because it sure worked in Germany!

Just a few facts from history. Learn from it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Two things all on this thread know:

1. Dems were the party of no from 1995-2007. They opposed everything the Republicans tried to do to advance liberty and keep our nation safe.

and here I thought they voted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

2. One of the first things Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany after taking power was to nationalize healthcare. Dingell would know how effective that is in "controlling the people" because it sure worked in Germany!

Just a few facts from history. Learn from it.

Switzerland and other democracies: FRONTLINE: sick around the world: five capitalist democracies & how they do it | PBS

 

[manu1959]

Two things all on this thread know:

1. Dems were the party of no from 1995-2007. They opposed everything the Republicans tried to do to advance liberty and keep our nation safe.

and here I thought they voted to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

2. One of the first things Hitler and the Nazis did in Germany after taking power was to nationalize healthcare. Dingell would know how effective that is in "controlling the people" because it sure worked in Germany!

Just a few facts from history. Learn from it.

Switzerland and other democracies: FRONTLINE: sick around the world: five capitalist democracies & how they do it | PBS

that is only after they voted against it...plus they were tricked....

as for switzerland...the stole all the jews money and hide millions form all the po people in fake bank accounts....and worst of all the swiss guard protects the pope....bad example...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

that is only after they voted against it...plus they were tricked....

as for switzerland...the stole all the jews money and hide millions form all the po people in fake bank accounts....and worst of all the swiss guard protects the pope....bad example...

why do I bother? because I post to the post and not the personality, which leaves me posting to

 

[Charles Stucker]

I've crunched the numbers many times here and no matter how you slice it 45 years of saving 15% of your own money in a privately held account is always the best option.

Except when the markets crash.

Wrong. Over 45 years the market climbs inexorably. If one were to posit that there exists an absolute maximum to technological advancement then it is conceivable that at some time the market would top out, but until that time, it gets a better long term return than any other equally safe investment.
Sure you could purchase a single lottery ticket and win millions but that is a basically unsound investment strategy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

are you implying that people who lose their homes in a bankruptcy filing, want to lose their homes?

Yes it absolutely makes sense in some cases to give up one's house in a bankruptcy.

in some cases, but you are ignoring much.

good bye

You leaving?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes it absolutely makes sense in some cases to give up one's house in a bankruptcy.

in some cases, but you are ignoring much.

good bye

You leaving?

always

 

[NO!bama08]

One mans obstructionism is another mans desperate attempt to save his great country from the toilet that is Socialism.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

One mans...

fuck off troll.

 

[edthecynic]

we're not programming code which is stupid GIGO, we are using conversation which includes inference, agreed understanding and nuance...all within a contextual framework.

when discussing bankruptcy it is assumed/agreed/inferred that there are other bills. When it is said medical expenses cause a bankruptcy, it does not negate the idea that other bills were there. What is meant is that the added expense...the result of an illness...of medical bills was teh cause of a bankruptcy.

semantic games like the ones you play are way too sophomoric for my tastes.

the problem with some people who live, work, breath computers, is they start acting like computers. GIGO

www.medicalcostadvocate.com Health

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.


Woolhandler and her colleagues surveyed a random sample of 2,314 people who filed for bankruptcy in early 2007, looked at their court records, and then interviewed more than 1,000 of them.
They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.
Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
“That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study — 78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services,” says Woolhandler. “Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance.”
However, Peter Cunningham, Ph.D., a senior fellow at the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy research organization in Washington, D.C., isn’t completely convinced. He says it’s often hard to tell in which cases medical bills add to the bleak financial picture without being directly responsible for the bankruptcies.
“I’m not sure that it is correct to say that medical problems were the direct cause of all of these bankruptcies,” he says. “In most of these cases, it’s going to be medical expenses and other things, other debt that is accumulating.”
Either way, he agrees that medical bills are an increasing problem for many people.
“I think medical bills are something that a lot of families are having a lot of difficulty with and whether it’s the direct cause of bankruptcy or whether it helps to push them over the edge because they already were in a precarious financial situation, it’s a big concern and hopefully that’s what medical reform will try to address,” he says.
The study may overestimate the number of bankruptcies caused by medical bills yet underestimate the financial burden of health care on American families, because most people struggle along but don’t end up declaring bankruptcy, according to Cunningham.
“Bankruptcy is the most extreme or final step for people who are having problems paying medical bills,” he says. “Medical bills and medical costs are an issue that can very easily and in pretty short order overwhelm a lot families who are on otherwise solid financial ground, including those with private insurance.”
His group’s research found that medical bills unduly stress 1 in 5 families.

So the only thing that the bankruptcy was filed for was medical bills and nothing else was included right?

Wrong.

Take your Straw Man and shove it where the Sun don't shine!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So the only thing that the bankruptcy was filed for was medical bills and nothing else was included right?

Wrong.

Take your Straw Man and shove it where the Sun don't shine!

This was settled long ago. SkullPenis is just baiting people.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So the only thing that the bankruptcy was filed for was medical bills and nothing else was included right?

Wrong.

Take your Straw Man and shove it where the Sun don't shine!

This was settled long ago. SkullPenis is just baiting people.

It wasn't settled at all obviously

None of you has proven that medical bills were the cause for whatever percentage of bankruptcies.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Take your Straw Man and shove it where the Sun don't shine!

This was settled long ago. SkullPenis is just baiting people.

It wasn't settled at all obviously

None of you has proven that medical bills were the cause for whatever percentage of bankruptcies.

semantics. the playground of the weak minded, clueless and the sophomoric.

the data. we have to prove nothing. the data speaks for itself.

 

[Skull Pilot]

This was settled long ago. SkullPenis is just baiting people.

It wasn't settled at all obviously

None of you has proven that medical bills were the cause for whatever percentage of bankruptcies.

semantics. the playground of the weak minded, clueless and the sophomoric.

the data. we have to prove nothing. the data speaks for itself.

That medical bills were included in bankruptcy is not proof that medical bills cause said bankruptcy. In fact credit cards are probably included in nearly 100% of bankruptcies but no one is saying that they are the sole cause of bankruptcies are they? Using your reasoning i could easily say just that.

That is not semantics, that is an accurate interpretation.

Correlation doers not equal causation.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It wasn't settled at all obviously

None of you has proven that medical bills were the cause for whatever percentage of bankruptcies.

semantics. the playground of the weak minded, clueless and the sophomoric.

the data. we have to prove nothing. the data speaks for itself.

That medical bills were included in bankruptcy is not proof that medical bills cause said bankruptcy. In fact credit cards are probably included in nearly 100% of bankruptcies but no one is saying that they are the sole cause of bankruptcies are they? Using your reasoning i could easily say just that.

That is not semantics, that is an accurate interpretation.

Correlation doers not equal causation.

Of course credit cards and other bills are most likely included. What is the issue is when people get sick/ill, it is an unplanned event that is usually catastrophic in more ways than one, including financially.

and the major reason the financial catastrophe takes place is insurance costs and/or medical bills.

add an illness and manageable medical costs and no one is saying bankruptcies due to medical issues will disappear altogether. what people are saying is that bankruptcies due to medical issues/costs would fall dramatically.

 

[edthecynic]

It wasn't settled at all obviously

None of you has proven that medical bills were the cause for whatever percentage of bankruptcies.

semantics. the playground of the weak minded, clueless and the sophomoric.

the data. we have to prove nothing. the data speaks for itself.

That medical bills were included in bankruptcy is not proof that medical bills cause said bankruptcy. In fact credit cards are probably included in nearly 100% of bankruptcies but no one is saying that they are the sole cause of bankruptcies are they? Using your reasoning i could easily say just that.

That is not semantics, that is an accurate interpretation.

Correlation doers not equal causation.

If someone was able to make their payments on their mortgage and their credit cards up until the time they got sick, wouldn't the medical related financial problems be the direct cause of their bankruptcy rather than the expenses they were able to satisfy before they took sick???
Of course!!!!
Thus the figure 62% of bankruptcies are medical RELATED!!!!!!!!!!
Get it???????

 

[Skull Pilot]

semantics. the playground of the weak minded, clueless and the sophomoric.

the data. we have to prove nothing. the data speaks for itself.

That medical bills were included in bankruptcy is not proof that medical bills cause said bankruptcy. In fact credit cards are probably included in nearly 100% of bankruptcies but no one is saying that they are the sole cause of bankruptcies are they? Using your reasoning i could easily say just that.

That is not semantics, that is an accurate interpretation.

Correlation doers not equal causation.

If someone was able to make their payments on their mortgage and their credit cards up until the time they got sick, wouldn't the medical related financial problems be the direct cause of their bankruptcy rather than the expenses they were able to satisfy before they took sick???
Of course!!!!
Thus the figure 62% of bankruptcies are medical RELATED!!!!!!!!!!
Get it???????

So now you change your tune and say "related " instead of "caused"

I can assert that if people weren't maxing out their credit cards and spending more than they make that they would be able to pay their medical bills. So it's not the medical bills. it's the runaway frivolous spending that causes bankruptcies.

All you have to do to be intellectually honest is say that medical bills are listed as one of the many reasons for bankruptcy filings

But you would rather spin the facts to support some "needed" government intervention.