Good Grief Occupy Wall Street Imbeciles Release 13 Demands Including “$20 Minimum Wa

[Avatar4321]

Republicans can't stand anyone that stands up for working Americans.

When have these protesters, who have been protesting for 3 weeks, been to work?

Instead they are trying to disrupt people in wall street from working.

Who exactly is standing for working Americans here? The people protesting or the people working?

Probably victims of Reaganomics and the Republican economic crash of 2006. Anybody that doesn't work 24/7/365 is lazy right?

Or people who havent worked a day in their lives but expect things to be handed to them.

 

[imbalance]

Leftists can't stand anyone who stands up for free will vs predetermined regiment.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwy0E_oKgwc]Pro Choice Rally - London 9 July 2011 - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE-mexn09ZY]Madison Wisconsin Pro-union rally Feb. 19 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67VJhnUSSA]Denver 420 Rally 2010 - YouTube[/ame]

The concept of free will is more than just a vocabulary term to be thrown for the purpose of lazy political rhetoric; it's a concept fundamental to the evolution of human existence that requires an interdependency with individual responsibility and self-awareness.

If you ever want to transcend political coercion and think for yourself, existentialism is a good place to start imo Existentialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Avatar4321]

The concept of free will is more than just a vocabulary term to be thrown for the purpose of lazy political rhetoric; it's a concept fundamental to the evolution of human existence that requires an interdependency with individual responsibility and self-awareness.

If you ever want to transcend political coercion and think for yourself, existentialism is a good place to start imo Existentialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So there is no free will?

 

[Lakhota]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

How is this positive?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

How is this positive?

It's kids getting involved, and caring about politics.

Even if you think they're wrong, it's still positive.

 

[Lakhota]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

How is this positive?

It's kids getting involved, and caring about politics.

Even if you think they're wrong, it's still positive.

Amen! These young people bring tears to my eyes. I am so proud of them. It will take them time to totally get their act together. It takes all political movements time to polish. Even if they fizzle out, I still applaud their efforts. Personally, I doubt they will fizzle out...

 

[Londoner]

Folks, you need to understand the 30 year push for cheap labor. Hint: when you cut wages/benefits/entitlements, consumers have less money with which to buy things.

Which is to say: our economy depends on a level of consumption which is not supported by the current policies of cheap labor and austerity.

Workers are also consumers whose consumption the system depends upon.
When average hard working families cannot consume, the capitalist has no incentive to add jobs no matter how many tax breaks you give him.

Meaning: we have a structural crisis in the form of a distribution system which does not provide for demand. Capitalism has been in this structural crisis since the 70s when it started shipping jobs to ever cheaper labor markets. With each job lost to a profit-boosting sweatshop, we also lost a consumer. Of course, we tried to fix this by expanding the credit economy (-that's why we all started receiving 3 credit-card-offers a week in the 80s. Reaganomics had to make up for the money that wasn't trickling down into solid jobs, which enable consumption). That is, for 30 years we kept the real economy alive by loaning workers the very money they used to make in the form of wages & benefits.

Morning in America is actually: 30 years of fueling the economy with debt.

You know how the story ends, right? We broke the bank . . . (we even hawked the only thing of value we had left, our homes). Point is: the solid jobs promised by the supply siders never materialized; rather, the jobs went to Asian sweatshops (which resulted in massive profits for the suppliers and their share holders). The cheap prices the supply siders promised have been magically replaced by Health Care and Energy monopolies - with costs rising at 5x inflation. (What do you think the suppliers did with their newfound profits? They invested in politicians, who fixed markets, thus protecting them from competition)

TRAGICALLY, our postwar manufacturing was quietly replaced by financialization, that is, instead of making real products for the real economy (with real jobs), we began to specialize in the creation of speculative garbage for the fictitious economy (hedges, derivatives, swaps, ALT-As, futures, CDOs, etc., etc., "get rich quick" asset bubbles > Casino Capitalism. America now specializes in manufacturing risky garbage that makes a few people wealthy while blowing-up like a nuclear bomb over the rest of us. This is what we get for moving government out of the way and letting the innovators set their own risk levels . . . as they leveraged us into a bankrupt future).

We now have unprecedented wealth on top (which gets sucked into speculative voids which blow up and destroys jobs), combined with unprecedented debt at the level of purchase, i.e., middle class consumers who have to borrow just to stay afloat until they inevitably go bankrupt. This is a disaster. Governments across the globe - seduced by the policies Reagan and Thatcher set in motion - are all floundering. They are stuck in the failed model of pumping credit into zombie (a.k.a. jobless-&-deb-ridden) consumers and zombie banks. In other words, we are using supply side medicine (bailing out billionaires) to fix a problem of middle class demand. We are doing this because the billionaires own the media and have fooled an army of useful idiots.

The only way to solve this crisis is to re-capitalize the middle class by giving them a larger share of the wealth which is made from their labor. This is the only way we can rebuild the purchasing power which is required for sustaining and growing jobs. Tragically, the folks who own media have no interest in telling the truth.

 

[oreo]

REAL WAGES: 1964-2004
Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers

1964- $302.52

1965- $310.46
1966- $312.83
1967- $311.30
1968- $315.37

1969- $316.93
1970- $312.94
1971- $318.05
1972- $331.59

1973- $331.39
1974- $314.94
1975- $305.16
1976- $309.61

1977- $310.99
1978- $310.41
1979- $298.87
1980- $281.77

1981- $277.35
1982- $272.74
1983- $277.50
1984- $279.22

1985- $276.23
1986- $276.11
1987- $272.88
1988- $270.32

1989- $267.27
1990- $262.43
1991- $258.34
1992- $257.95

1993- $258.12
1994- $259.97
1995- $258.43
1996- $259.58

1997- $265.22
1998- $271.87
1999- $274.64
2000- $275.62

2001- $275.38
2002- $278.91
2003- $279.94
2004- $277.57
Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004)

Current and real (constant 1982-1984 dollars) earnings for production and nonsupervisory
employees on private nonfarm payrolls, seasonally adjusted
August 2011- $292.48
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

As one can see, wages haven't been near the high of $331.59 from 1972 and in the long run have decreased.
No wonder Main Street America is fed up. But, but we must cut taxes for the job creators even though they have held wages down and haven't created jobs since their big tax cuts in 2003. More jobs were created in the 90's when taxes were higher.

I thought your 1st chart was a FARCE--it is--it doesn't exist--so your first chart is B.S. Average WEEKLY wage according to your second link is $775.00 PER week
--not $292.28.

Average weekly hours..................................................................... 34.2 34.3 34.3 34.2
Average weekly earnings................................................................. $775.31 $789.24 $793.02 $789.68

Obviously you don't understand the concept of constant dollars and Real Wages but the Wall Street Journal does.
Income Slides to 1996 Levels
"Earnings of the typical man who works full-time year round fell, and are lower—adjusted for inflation—than in 1978".
Household Income Falls, Poverty Rate Rises - WSJ.com
The Wage Chart I showed is from the Department of Labor that uses 1982 constant dollars adjusted for inflation. The 2011 figure is from the Department of Labor, again using 1982 constant dollars. It's the standard measuring methodology used by economist to measure wage growth.

Oh and the chart that was a FARCE, try this link.
Wages and Benefits: Real Wages (1964-2004) - Working Life

Also the table that you need to look atwith my second link is Table A-2. Current and real (constant 1982-1984 dollars) earnings for production and nonsupervisory
employees on private nonfarm payrolls, seasonally adjusted

Real average weekly earnings (line 2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $299.57 $295.72 $294.88 $292.48

Your original post on this issue did not clarify what you were talking about--nor did your link work. Yes INFLATION has eaten up our dollar--and run-a-way government spending and printing money doesn't help either.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

How is this positive?

It's kids getting involved, and caring about politics.

Even if you think they're wrong, it's still positive.

So does that mean the Nazi party was positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

 

[Lakhota]

So was was the Nazi party positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

Well, it beats the hell out of being a couch potato and looking like Chris Christie...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

How is this positive?

It's kids getting involved, and caring about politics.

Even if you think they're wrong, it's still positive.

So does that mean the Nazi party was positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

You're welcome to your opinion.

 

[kiwiman127]

I thought your 1st chart was a FARCE--it is--it doesn't exist--so your first chart is B.S. Average WEEKLY wage according to your second link is $775.00 PER week
--not $292.28.

Obviously you don't understand the concept of constant dollars and Real Wages but the Wall Street Journal does.
Income Slides to 1996 Levels
"Earnings of the typical man who works full-time year round fell, and are lower—adjusted for inflation—than in 1978".
Household Income Falls, Poverty Rate Rises - WSJ.com
The Wage Chart I showed is from the Department of Labor that uses 1982 constant dollars adjusted for inflation. The 2011 figure is from the Department of Labor, again using 1982 constant dollars. It's the standard measuring methodology used by economist to measure wage growth.

Oh and the chart that was a FARCE, try this link.
Wages and Benefits: Real Wages (1964-2004) - Working Life

Also the table that you need to look atwith my second link is Table A-2. Current and real (constant 1982-1984 dollars) earnings for production and nonsupervisory
employees on private nonfarm payrolls, seasonally adjusted

Real average weekly earnings (line 2) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $299.57 $295.72 $294.88 $292.48

Your original post on this issue did not clarify what you were talking about--nor did your link work. Yes INFLATION has eaten up our dollar--and run-a-way government spending and printing money doesn't help either.

The link that you called a farce changed addresses I had bookmarked it for a paper for my MBA. The new one is correct and works. Again, thanks!

 

[Avatar4321]

So was was the Nazi party positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

Well, it beats the hell out of being a couch potato and looking like Chris Christie...

Id rather look like Chris Christie then be involved with these violent revolutionaries.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's kids getting involved, and caring about politics.

Even if you think they're wrong, it's still positive.

So does that mean the Nazi party was positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

You're welcome to your opinion.

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[kiwiman127]

Folks, you need to understand the 30 year push for cheap labor. Hint: when you cut wages/benefits/entitlements, consumers have less money with which to buy things.

Which is to say: our economy depends on a level of consumption which is not supported by the current policies of cheap labor and austerity.

Workers are also consumers whose consumption the system depends upon.
When average hard working families cannot consume, the capitalist has no incentive to add jobs no matter how many tax breaks you give him.

Meaning: we have a structural crisis in the form of a distribution system which does not provide for demand. Capitalism has been in this structural crisis since the 70s when it started shipping jobs to ever cheaper labor markets. The resultant low wages were temporarily fixed by expanding the credit economy. That is, we tried to make up for diminished wages and disappearing benefits with credit cards and implausible mortgages, that is, we kept the real economy alive by loaning workers the very money they used to make in the form of wages & benefits.

(Consequently, we broke the bank, i.e., the failed trickle down of Reaganomics has finally come home to roost. The solid jobs never came; rather, they went to Asian sweatshops. The cheap prices we were promised have been magically replaced by Health Care and Energy monopolies - with costs rising at 5x inflation. Manufacturing has been replaced by financialization, that is, instead of making real products for the real economy (with real jobs), we began to specialize in the creation of speculative garbage for the fictitious economy (hedges, derivatives, swaps, ALT-As, futures, CDOs, etc., etc., "get rich quick asset bubbles" > Casino Capitalism. America now specializes in manufacturing risky garbage that makes a few people wealthy while blowing-up like a nuclear bomb over the rest of us. This is what we get for moving government out of the way and letting the innovators set their own risk levels . . . as they leveraged us into a bankrupt future).

We now have unprecedented wealth on top (which gets sucked into speculative voids which blow up and destroys jobs), combined with unprecedented debt at the level of purchase, i.e., middle class consumers who have to borrow just to stay afloat until they inevitably go bankrupt. This is a disaster. Governments across the globe - seduced by the movement Reagan and Thatcher set in motion - are all floundering. They are stuck in the failed model of pumping credit into zombie (a.k.a. jobless-&-deb-ridden) consumers and zombie banks. In other words, we are using supply side medicine (bailing out billionaires) to fix a problem of middle class demand. We are doing this because the billionaires own the media and have fooled an army of useful idiots.

The only way to solve this crisis is to re-capitalize the middle class by giving them a larger share of the wealth which is made from their labor. This is the only way we can rebuild the purchasing power which is required for sustaining and growing jobs. Tragically, the folks who own media have no interest in telling the truth.

The Wall Street protesters are all over the board in what they are protesting.
One thing they are right about is wages.
Income Slides to 1996 Levels
Household Income Falls, Poverty Rate Rises - WSJ.com

Which leads to;
Workers’ share of national income plummets to record low
Workers

Which leads to this:
With consumers slow to spend, businesses are slow to hire
With consumers slow to spend, businesses are slow to hire

Which leads to this:
Bernanke Says High U.S. Unemployment Poses ‘National Crisis’
Bernanke Says High U.S. Unemployment Poses

Which could very well lead to this:
Forecast says double-dip recession is imminent
Forecast says double-dip recession now inevitable - Sep. 30, 2011

 

[oreo]

I think we should all be proud of these young people for trying to do something positive. After all, they were dealt a pretty bad hand by older generations.

They were dealt a bad hand by the person they just installed in the Oval Office--Barack Obama.

 

[Londoner]

Here is one of the best books for studying the push for cheap labor.
Capital moves: RCA's seventy-year ... - Jefferson R. Cowie - Google Books

The logic of capital demands the highest possible return on investment. This is why the cheapest possible labor is genetic to capitalism. What this means is that you cannot sustain a vigorous consumption economy without disastrous forms of credit (which becomes necessary as you cut wages and benefits). Capitalism is always in crisis because it never pays Labor enough to consume, unless it is forced by government, which happened during the postwar years. Check out the growth in the 50s and 60s. Point is: you cannot sustain a consumption economy unless your distribution system sufficiently capitalizes average hard working families. FDR did it with unions, entitlements, cost of living programs, public universities, infrastructure, and a fed that sustained full employment. Reagan did it with credit cards. Both methods have serious flaws, but the essential problem is quite clear: capital's drive for cheap labor versus the economy's need for strong demand.

 

[Photonic]

My parents are what you would call 'very wealthy'. They worked for it. They certainly didn't 'barely pay others' to make them rich, you fucking moron.

Stop fucking blaming others for your own failures.

Oh I'm sorry...what percentage of the population are your parents?

The point, little moronic one, is that you have no idea who these 'very wealthy' people are or how they have achieved their wealth. You're judging them because they have more money than you. Idiot.

Not only have you missed the entire point of my response, but you have proven yourself to be exactly like every prick California bitch who looks down their nose at anyone who they perceive to be lower class than they are.

Good job fulfilling your useless stereotype.

My Grandfather was a board executive for Exxon for 17 years. My other grandfather is a state lawyer for Maryland.

The Holocaust took their family, if anyone knows the American Dream better than my family, feel free to point them out.

Next time I attempt to have a reasonable conversation with you, perhaps you should respond in kind. I made a point and expected a point in return. But no, mindless inflammatory comments all the way.

Really showing how well you are able to express legitimate political views to other people.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So does that mean the Nazi party was positive? It got kids involved in politics.

I dont think so. And i dont think it's positive for this.

You're welcome to your opinion.

Is that a yes or a no?

To your Godwin'd question? I'm not going to dignify it with a response.