God and Free Will

[Bonzi]

If you are a believer in "Predestination" free will is of no matter.
It doesn't matter what you do, either you are destined to be saved or not

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you are a believer in "Predestination" free will is of no matter.
It doesn't matter what you do, either you are destined to be saved or not

Free Will being an illusion does not mean we are all predestined to our actions. While the universe is deterministic, it is also chaotic.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

God of the OT was evil. (according to scripture).

The God of the OT was the One born as Jesus Christ. He said He came to REVEAL the Father -- meaning, before His appearance, no one knew of the other Being we now know as the Father.

People who don't know the scriptures want to believe the OT GOD was the Father and Jesus was a more compassionate God. They are wrong. Jesus of the NT is exactly the same as the OT God you hate.

 

[Penelope]

But god DID do evil by killing nearly everyone in his flood.

God defines good and evil. Not you.

Why can't we define good and evil?

We are. Look where it for us.

Where?

 

[Penelope]

God of the OT was evil. (according to scripture).

The God of the OT was the One born as Jesus Christ. He said He came to REVEAL the Father -- meaning, before His appearance, no one knew of the other Being we npw know as the Father.

People who don't know the scriptures want to believe the OT Hod was the Father and Jesus was a more compassionate God. They wer

What?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Certainty if one has read the bible you know he hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and also destroyed the Egyptians due to using Hebrews as slave labor, and yet the Christians used blacks as slave labor. He also encouraged genocide on the Canaanites. God of the OT was evil. (according to scripture).

Also he allowed Lucifer to attack Job and bring him near death.

So like he said (God) he has created good as well as evil.

Have you EVER let your child learn from experience?

Life is so much more than this current existence. This time we live in now is TRAINING to expose and cleanse our character. God knows what He is doing.

 

[Penelope]

Certainty if one has read the bible you know he hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and also destroyed the Egyptians due to using Hebrews as slave labor, and yet the Christians used blacks as slave labor. He also encouraged genocide on the Canaanites. God of the OT was evil. (according to scripture).

Also he allowed Lucifer to attack Job and bring him near death.

So like he said (God) he has created good as well as evil.

Have you EVER let your child learn from experience?

Life is so much more than this current existence. This time we live in now is TRAINING to expose and cleanse our character. God knows what He is doing.

So we are in training for the next life. So do we have free will or not?

 

[Meriweather]

The notion of ‘free will’ is itself further proof that there is no ‘god’ as perceived by theists, a contrivance of man used as an excuse as to why evil exists.

Indeed, an omnipotent deity would not only have the capacity to foresee the future, but it would also have the capacity to control the actions of individuals, eliminating any ‘need’ for ‘free will.’

Absent the ability to foresee the future and control the actions of individuals, a ‘god’ wouldn’t be omnipotent, and consequently unworthy of worship.

And the bible doesn’t ‘teach’ anything – the bible was written by men, imbued with man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, as fallible as man himself.

The argument that the bible ‘teaches’ anything fails as an appeal to authority fallacy.

I see it a bit differently. There seems to be a habit of taking terms such as free will and omnipotence and stretching them to the point where they are meaningless--and certainly beyond the original intent.

Free will: We can choose to do good, or we can choose to do evil. Is this true, or isn't it? (Don't expand the definition of free will beyond this.) Very simply, early humans observed/recognized that they could choose to do good. Change and expand the definition of free will, and the truth changes. (For example, I cannot choose to be the Queen of England and go live in a castle. Therefore, I do not have "free will" under the new, expanded definition.)

Omnipotent: Has unlimited power or authority. In other words, God is the ultimate power and authority over what is. This definition is often expanded into having power and authority over what is not. Or, in one of its variants, God is omniscient, meaning God knows everything at the time it becomes knowable. However, that definition is often expanded into God knowing everything that cannot be known.

Yes, the Bible teaches via the experiences of those who have already lived through various situations. Most stories do teach something (its called its theme).

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

We can choose to do good, or we can choose to do evil. Is this true, or isn't it?

Sure it's true, but the process of "choice" is not conscious. You have made the choice before you are aware the choice has been made.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

God of the OT was evil. (according to scripture).

The God of the OT was the One born as Jesus Christ. He said He came to REVEAL the Father -- meaning, before His appearance, no one knew of the other Being we npw know as the Father.

People who don't know the scriptures want to believe the OT Hod was the Father and Jesus was a more compassionate God. They wer

What?

Yes. My phone changes my words, I sware.

 

[Penelope]

Freewill is an illusion, we are a product of our environment, ie, where we were born, who we were born to, education, genetics, and everything that happens in our life's. I should add, and ones perception of events.

 

[there4eyeM]

If 'free will' exists, we have no choice but to be free.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Freewill is an illusion, we are a product of our environment, ie, where we were born, who we were born to, education, genetics, and everything that happens in our life's. I should add, and ones perception of events.

Interesting that the libs see themselves as victims without choice.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Freewill is an illusion, we are a product of our environment, ie, where we were born, who we were born to, education, genetics, and everything that happens in our life's. I should add, and ones perception of events.

Interesting that the libs see themselves as victims without choice.

You're not getting it. It's not that we don't "make choices", it's that they arent conscious choices. It's not something for you to whine or prattle on about...it's confirmed fact.

 

[Meriweather]

Sure it's true, but the process of "choice" is not conscious. You have made the choice before you are aware the choice has been made.

How so?

 

[Penelope]

Freewill is an illusion, we are a product of our environment, ie, where we were born, who we were born to, education, genetics, and everything that happens in our life's. I should add, and ones perception of events.

Interesting that the libs see themselves as victims without choice.

We are all the same , all a product of our life's, memories and perceptions.

Take 2- 50 year olds, and ask them about their childhood memories and their views of them and they will both tell you different things. Same upbringing but different memories of events.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

You make choices. Thousands of times a day. You are the product of those choices.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sure it's true, but the process of "choice" is not conscious. You have made the choice before you are aware the choice has been made.

How so?

The choice was made in your brain before you were aware it was made.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You are the product of those choices.

Sure, to a degree, the results of our choices affect our future choices.

Do you like steak? When did you "decide" to like steak?

 

[Meriweather]

The choice was made in your brain before you were aware it was made.

Yes, I understood that part. I am asking you how the choice is made.