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They have the right to pray for their child.
And sometimes people make mistakes about the seriousness of an illness, and that isn't a crime.
I'm telling you, kidney failure happens quickly and it takes people by surprise. Wait to hear more before you pass judgment. Maybe they are ignorant yahoos, but maybe they didn't realize how serious it was.
I just checked. I didn't see anyone saying they didn't have the right to pray for their child. Perhaps they could have done that in the hospital where she was receiving treatment though.
Prayer without medical treatment or prayer with medical treatment. Which would you want?
thats simply not true.
why then arent mormons parading their polygamy? Why arent pentecostals allowed to wave rattlesnakes at kids in church? Why do we enforce statutory rape laws against sects that match creepy old dudes with virginal 13 year olds in religious ceremony?
No, they said prayer wasn't an "action" and of less value than home remedies.
I beg to differ.
I see your point, because I too feel the same. But it's not about what we feel is appropriate, it's what the family thought was appropriate for their beliefs. And they're not restricted by law to practice their belief. It's not prohibited to refuse medical treatment. People die all of the time because they refuse medical treatment.
Well that would be because Mormons DO NOT believe in Polygamy and have not since 1896. As to those that claim they are an offshoot of that church THEY do parade it openly.
And depending on the State 13 is legal age of marriage.
But none of those have anything to do with THIS. The family did not think she needed to see a doctor. Unless your going to claim that every time a child gets a belly ache, nose bleed, headache or fever you have to RUSH them to an emergency room you do not have a leg to stand on.
To prove negligence they will have to prove what happened leading up to the death. And just because a doctor says that certain symptoms maybe common in those cases does not prove that is what happened.
Well that would be because Mormons DO NOT believe in Polygamy and have not since 1896. As to those that claim they are an offshoot of that church THEY do parade it openly.
And depending on the State 13 is legal age of marriage.
But none of those have anything to do with THIS. The family did not think she needed to see a doctor. Unless your going to claim that every time a child gets a belly ache, nose bleed, headache or fever you have to RUSH them to an emergency room you do not have a leg to stand on.
To prove negligence they will have to prove what happened leading up to the death. And just because a doctor says that certain symptoms maybe common in those cases does not prove that is what happened.
What needs to be proven is pretty complex. The cause of death has to be certain. If the cause of death was diabetic ketoacidosis (and I'm only saying "if" because all we have are the press reports) then the symptoms are known and become more severe until they persist until the sufferer is in a coma. Death follows. Fortunately for a prosecutor, expert witnesses will testify about the immediate symptoms and the critical symptoms, such as coma. There would need to be other evidence of parental behaviour of course. The fact that they asked others to pray for her would indicate they were aware of symptoms and chose prayer over medical treatment.
The symptoms were more than you've trivialised here.
Ore. couple indicted in death of 15-month-old daughter
11:03 AM PDT on Saturday, March 29, 2008
Associated Press
OREGON CITY, Ore. -- A grand jury indicted an Oregon City couple accused of failing to seek medical treatment for their gravely ill daughter who died this month.
Carl Worthington, 28, and Raylene Worthington, 25, surrendered late Friday to face charges of manslaughter and criminal mistreatment, said Detective Jim Strovink of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office.
They were held on $250,000 bail each and their first court appearance was scheduled for Monday afternoon.
The couple's daughter, 15-month-old Ava, died at home March 2 from bacterial bronchial pneumonia and infection. A deputy state medical examiner said Ava's medical problems were treatable with antibiotics.
The Worthingtons belong to Oregon City's Followers of Christ Church. According to church tradition, when members become ill, fellow worshippers pray and anoint them with oil.
Dozens of children have been buried in the parish cemetery over the past 50 years, and a 1998 analysis by The Oregonian newspaper found that many of the deaths could have prevented with medical care.
The 1999 Oregon Legislature eliminated the state's "spiritual-healing defense" in cases of second-degree manslaughter, first- and second-degree criminal mistreatment and nonpayment of child support. Legislators were prompted by the death of 11-year-old Oregon City boy whose diabetes was left untreated. His parents were members of the Followers of Christ Church
I think someone who refuses medical treatment on the grounds of religion is immensely strong in their beliefs. I don't like it because I don't believe. I would see it as a waste and a premature end to that person's life but if they choose to refuse and to die then that's their right. The corollary is that someone who is terminally ill should also be allowed to die. Unfortunately that isn't the case in many countries. I know I'm drifting the thread a little here but I'm suggesting a wider look at the issues.
Now, when it comes to children I believe that they should be given medical treatment even if it's against their personal wishes and the wishes of the parents. A child isn't the property of their parents. Immediately they're born they assume human rights and among those rights is the right to life. Where that child's right to life is threatened by illness and it can be protected by competent medical treatment then that right should be defended and no person should be able to deny that right to that child.
In a joint statement after a five-day conference in Britain, the international experts said snakebites kill more people than all other so-called Neglected Tropical Diseases combined, yet get little attention or funding from the World Health Organization or from governments. Citing new evidence from a study in India and Bangladesh, the experts said about 46,000 people die annually of snakebites in India, plus another 6,000 in Bangladesh. The WHO estimates the annual death toll in India from snake bites is 10,000. "Snakebite ... is almost completely ignored and grossly underestimated," said Alan Harvey, head of the International Society of Toxinology, who led the meeting. "WHO and governments need to ... rank snakebite where it belongs — as a very real public health and medical concern which needs funding, training and focus."
A Naja Ashei, a giant spitting cobra measuring nearly 9 feet and carrying enough venom to kill at least 15 people, is seen in this picture released by conservation group WildlifeDirect.
Bites from snakes such as cobras, mambas and vipers mainly affect people living in rural areas of sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia with scant health facilities nearby. Anti-venom treatment can cost between $250 and $500, the experts said, meaning many victims either seek no treatment at all or go to local witch doctors or herbalists. Despite high death rates, the WHO in 2013 downgraded snakebite to a "neglected condition" with no formal program on how to address it as a health threat, the experts said.
The specialists also warned that anti-venom stocks are running "dangerously low" in many risk areas and said there is a "real crisis in the quantity and quality of antivenins in rural areas, where they are needed most." Even where anti-venom stocks are good and of high quality, there is often a shortage of medical staff trained in how to administer them safely or effectively, they said.
Venom Experts Say Global Snakebite Toll Far Exceeds Estimates
It is called freedom of religion.
Though I have no problem with the State forcing parents of children under 16 to use doctors and medical services where exactly do you draw the line. My opinion on the matter would to some violate the 1st Amendment.
Wow, that's not far from where my mom lives. Wisconsin is pretty libertarian as it is. I don't know all the laws there, but I don't think they would have legislation that requires people to seek medical help.
What it does do is show just how ridiculous religion can be.
It warped these people's minds that much, that they actually thought they could pray their daughter to health. That's pretty fucked up.
...
Religious freedom? Maybe
But I prefer evolution in action.
world health organization 666 - Google SearchSnakebite more common than thought...
Venom Experts Say Global Snakebite Toll Far Exceeds Estimates
September 30, 2015 — Venom specialists said Wednesday that diseases and disabilities caused by snakebites are far higher than official global health estimates suggest and that anti-venom stocks are running dangerously low.
In a joint statement after a five-day conference in Britain, the international experts said snakebites kill more people than all other so-called Neglected Tropical Diseases combined, yet get little attention or funding from the World Health Organization or from governments. Citing new evidence from a study in India and Bangladesh, the experts said about 46,000 people die annually of snakebites in India, plus another 6,000 in Bangladesh. The WHO estimates the annual death toll in India from snake bites is 10,000. "Snakebite ... is almost completely ignored and grossly underestimated," said Alan Harvey, head of the International Society of Toxinology, who led the meeting. "WHO and governments need to ... rank snakebite where it belongs — as a very real public health and medical concern which needs funding, training and focus."
A Naja Ashei, a giant spitting cobra measuring nearly 9 feet and carrying enough venom to kill at least 15 people, is seen in this picture released by conservation group WildlifeDirect.
Bites from snakes such as cobras, mambas and vipers mainly affect people living in rural areas of sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia and Southeast Asia with scant health facilities nearby. Anti-venom treatment can cost between $250 and $500, the experts said, meaning many victims either seek no treatment at all or go to local witch doctors or herbalists. Despite high death rates, the WHO in 2013 downgraded snakebite to a "neglected condition" with no formal program on how to address it as a health threat, the experts said.
The specialists also warned that anti-venom stocks are running "dangerously low" in many risk areas and said there is a "real crisis in the quantity and quality of antivenins in rural areas, where they are needed most." Even where anti-venom stocks are good and of high quality, there is often a shortage of medical staff trained in how to administer them safely or effectively, they said.
Venom Experts Say Global Snakebite Toll Far Exceeds Estimates
