Germany’s top tank destroyed on Ukrainian Frontlines: Leopard 2A6 and dozens of American Bradleys taken out

[alang1216]

A mad dog that bit my enemy isn't my 'friend'. Tomorrow it might rend my children.

More like an untrustworthy ally.

Do you remember Osama bin Laden and 911? The ressurection of the European Nazism is much, much worse.

You mean the rise of an authoritarian, ultra-nationalist like Putin? Agreed.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Zincwarrior]

Do you really not see the difference?
In 1861, the slave states decided to secede after the LEGALLY elected president didn't suit them.
In 2014, the eastern territories of Ukraine decided to secede after an armed coup in Kiev brought nationalists to power.
If the Ku Klux Klan took power in Washington and proclaimed the return of discriminatory laws, I personally would approve of blacks wanting to secede from such freaks and would consider those abroad, who came to the aid of the Klan to be same freaks.

Russobots #3 and #4.

 

[Ringo]

Russobots #3 and #4.

What? Blaming everything on the jews is no longer popular?

 

[Ringo]

Another Russian "super-cheap" plywood UAV, that has been in use since the winter, landed near Mirgorod and it's a false target.
According to Ukrainian sources, these UAVs are used to penetrate AFU air defense positions.
Really out of plywood! bought it at a hardware store. The body is screwed on. At first I didn't know why he had a five-liter plastic water tank taped down. Oh, yeah, it's a fuel tank. The wheels are from a baby stroller. I wonder what kind of moped's engine. A wonderful example of technical creativity of improvised means.
And it flies! I wonder how. Does it only need wheels to take off or to land? If it is not disposable, and can come back and land, that's very cool.
I have to hand it to the Russian craftsmen. Despite the primitiveness of the details, this machine was created by real specialists and enthusiasts of their craft. Sort of like the trench crafts of World War I, only with 21st century advances.

 

[Silver Cat]

More like an untrustworthy ally.


You mean the rise of an authoritarian, ultra-nationalist like Putin? Agreed.

To deter or fight Putin (or any other Eurasian power) we don't need Ukrainian Neo-Nazies or even German tanks. We need modernisation and significant enhancement of our nuclear forces, because it's the only thing, that stays between America and the devastating war or unacceptable peace.

 

[Ringo]

 

[alang1216]

To deter or fight Putin (or any other Eurasian power) we don't need Ukrainian Neo-Nazies or even German tanks. We need modernisation and significant enhancement of our nuclear forces, because it's the only thing, that stays between America and the devastating war or unacceptable peace.

So you are saying we need to attack Russia with our military power, including nuclear weapons. Does insanity run in your family or is it just you?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

German taxpayers will be happy.
By the way, Russians call the enemy not Ukrainians, but Germans ( 'nemzy' ) now.
An indeed 'excellent job of the best chancellor of all times and its cabinet ( according to German presstitutes ).

Since the initiation of Ukraine’s mass offensive against Russian positions the Ukrainian Army and allied paramilitaries have begun to actively deploy new batches of armour received from Western countries, including not only very large numbers of Leopard 1 and Leopard 2A4 tanks, but also the much more capable Leopard 2A6 which, alongside the British Challenger 2, is considered the most capable in the country’s inventory. While Leopard 2A4s have proven highly vulnerable in combat with armour protection that is effectively obsolete, as best demonstrated by Turkish use of the vehicles against local militias in Syria and Iraq, the Leopard 2A6 has long been marketed as a much more capable vehicle. Costing close to $8 million per vehicle, advantages of the new variant include use of 3rd generation composite armour, integration of a a longer barrelled and more powerful main gun, installation of additional armour modules on the turret, and use of much improved fire controls. The loss of these tanks, which have widely been considered the most capable in production across the Western world, has significant implications well beyond Ukraine itself.

A Leopard 2A6 tank was shown in close up aerial footage burning and completely destroyed, with features such as the gun mount confirming the class of vehicle seen. A second Leopard 2A6 was shown in the same formation damaged on its left track and abandoned, alongside multiple American M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles. personnel losses may be heavy, with Western tanks requiring 33% more crew than Russian or Soviet ones at four men each, while Bradleys typically carry nine personnel including three crew. Footage of the destroyed vehicles comes amid reports of very heavy losses for Ukraine’s Western supplied armour in attempted offensives against Russian positions, with other footage published from both sides showing significant losses among Leopard 1 and Leopard 2A4 units.

It remains likely that Leopard 2A6 units have taken further losses, as only a small fraction of destroyed vehicles in the conflict can have closeup videos taken from the air. Leopard 2A6s remain very scarce assets within the Ukrainian inventory, and within NATO more broadly the large majority of tanks in service are less capable, meaning the class’ vulnerability could draw the future viability of further Western arms shipments to Ukraine into question. Germany was initially highly reluctant to allow Leopard 2s to be supplied to Ukraine, with this speculated to have been largely influenced by concerns that combat could tarnish the tank’s reputation. This would be a major loss due to its central importance to the German defence sector’s reputation and to its arms export profile as perhaps the country’s most iconic defence product. Although a more capable Leopard 2 variant the Leopard 2A7 has been developed, improvements remain conservative particularly when compared to the gap between the A4 and A6 variants, with the A7 also having been relegated to a very small production run due to limited foreign demand.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

You are crazy.
These tanks the russians blew up were actually tractors. Big win !!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You are crazy.
These tanks the russians blew up were actually tractors. Big win !!

Russia says it destroyed Leopard tanks. They turned out to be tractors

Leopard 2 tanks are some of the most advanced and powerful military vehicles out there. Dozens have been provided by NATO countries to help Ukraine.

www.euronews.com

 

[Silver Cat]

So you are saying we need to attack Russia with our military power, including nuclear weapons. Does insanity run in your family or is it just you?

No. I'm saying that we must prepare ourselves to fight and win any kind of war, including all-out nuclear one (against not only Russia, but the whole Shanghai block, if necessary). Right now we are not ready to rise the bets in this game. First of all, we must close the most obvious holes in our defence and deterrence. Being simultaneously agressive and vulnerable is the direct way to the catastrophe.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia says it destroyed Leopard tanks. They turned out to be tractors

Leopard 2 tanks are some of the most advanced and powerful military vehicles out there. Dozens have been provided by NATO countries to help Ukraine.

www.euronews.com

A combine harvester in Zaporijia oblast in June, on the battlefield? Are you kidding?

 

[alang1216]

No. I'm saying that we must prepare ourselves to fight and win any kind of war, including all-out nuclear one (against not only Russia, but the whole Shanghai block, if necessary). Right now we are not ready to rise the bets in this game. First of all, we must close the most obvious holes in our defence and deterrence. Being simultaneously agressive and vulnerable is the direct way to the catastrophe.

What are these 'holes' of which you speak? Raising the bets sounds pretty ominous to me. If we could destroy both Russia and China in a preemptive strike the temptation to do it would be overwhelming.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A combine harvester in Zaporijia oblast in June, on the battlefield? Are you kidding?

You are a tractor killing maniac.

 

[Silver Cat]

What are these 'holes' of which you speak? Raising the bets sounds pretty ominous to me. If we could destroy both Russia and China in a preemptive strike the temptation to do it would be overwhelming.

There are too many ways for the Russians to degrade American "Launch under attack" capability from sabotage of C3I capabilities, to sudden attack by suppresed ballistic trajectory from submarines and exploiting that Biden-in-the-loop vulnerability. That's why official US position, declared in NDP is simple - Launch Under Attack isn't reliable.

The thing is that the US government supposed to protect American citizens, not to kill Russian and Chinese civilians, committing a sort of "murder-suicide". That's why the first strike must be counter-force and avoiding civilian population. And the Credible First Strike Capability highly depends not only on capability of destroying some Russian and/or Chinese cities but on the capability to survive their weakened retaliation strike. And right now the USA don't have capability not only to destroy Russian/Chinese submarines in sea, mobile ballistic missiles in forests and their strategic and long-range bombers in the air (and even some silo-based missiles will survive), but also the USA don't have reliable emercom (FEMA is a joke, you know), no significant ABD capabilities, and no National reserves necessary for the further recuperation. Which means that even weakened Russian/Chinese retaliation strike will cause unnecessary death of millions American citizens and collapse of American economy. Back in 1962 there was a good chance to fight and win a nuclear war and even to keep the leading position in the post-war world. Right now we don't have that chance. Even in the most "optimistic" scenarios, with unrealistically degraded Russian retaliation countervalue strike (about few hundreds of warheads) the USA will finish its existence as an industrial power in the highly competitive post-war world and will become a poor agricultural appendix of Brazil, India or Europe.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ukraine has taken ‘significant’ losses this week – US - VT Foreign Policy

The Ukrainian military has suffered “significant” casualties in its faltering attempt to mount a counteroffensive against Russian forces, US officials told CNN on Thursday. While Kiev has kept quiet about its losses, Moscow estimates that the offensive has already cost Ukraine almost 5,000 lives.

www.vtforeignpolicy.com

Make peace, you fools!!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Terrorist Girkin called Prigozhin's actions a "military rebellion".

Staged!

 

[alang1216]

There are too many ways for the Russians to degrade American "Launch under attack" capability from sabotage of C3I capabilities, to sudden attack by suppresed ballistic trajectory from submarines and exploiting that Biden-in-the-loop vulnerability. That's why official US position, declared in NDP is simple - Launch Under Attack isn't reliable.

The thing is that the US government supposed to protect American citizens, not to kill Russian and Chinese civilians, committing a sort of "murder-suicide". That's why the first strike must be counter-force and avoiding civilian population. And the Credible First Strike Capability highly depends not only on capability of destroying some Russian and/or Chinese cities but on the capability to survive their weakened retaliation strike. And right now the USA don't have capability not only to destroy Russian/Chinese submarines in sea, mobile ballistic missiles in forests and their strategic and long-range bombers in the air (and even some silo-based missiles will survive), but also the USA don't have reliable emercom (FEMA is a joke, you know), no significant ABD capabilities, and no National reserves necessary for the further recuperation. Which means that even weakened Russian/Chinese retaliation strike will cause unnecessary death of millions American citizens and collapse of American economy. Back in 1962 there was a good chance to fight and win a nuclear war and even to keep the leading position in the post-war world. Right now we don't have that chance. Even in the most "optimistic" scenarios, with unrealistically degraded Russian retaliation countervalue strike (about few hundreds of warheads) the USA will finish its existence as an industrial power in the highly competitive post-war world and will become a poor agricultural appendix of Brazil, India or Europe.

I don't disagree, my point was that if we had a 100% reliable first strike capability and wouldn't fear retaliation, the temptation to launch that first strike would be overwhelming. I was in no way advocating a first use of nukes on anyone. MAD has worked just fine for decades.

 

[alang1216]

Make peace, you fools!!!

I hope Putin listens to you.

 

[Silver Cat]

I hope Putin listens to you.

Sure. He is making peace. Kievan Junta declared, that there can't be peace with them, so, there will be peace without Kievan Junta. Highly likely it will be peace without Ukraine at all.