Germany’s top tank destroyed on Ukrainian Frontlines: Leopard 2A6 and dozens of American Bradleys taken out

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Riiight, “fake news”. Then why have they been in a state of civil war since 2014?
Why was the Ukrainian government overthrown in 2014?

I wrote "Fake news. The Russians, however, suffered appalling losses." Nothing about 2014, and you ignored the latest Russian battle ground defeats.

 

[theHawk]

I don't want to kill any minority in Ukraine but whatever went on there, and Russia played a part, it does not justify Russia attacking Kiev. If you were President of the US in 1861, would you have allowed the Confederate States to secede?

Who are we to determine if Russia is “justified“ in this war? We have invaded many countries. But they aren’t allowed to for their own interests?


The Confederate states were English colonies the same as the others before becoming a part of the U.S.

Also, a foreign power did not help overthrow the Federal government at that time before the Civil War began.

So the circumstances are entirely different.

 

[Zincwarrior]

German taxpayers will be happy.
By the way, Russians call the enemy not Ukrainians, but Germans ( 'nemzy' ) now.
An indeed 'excellent job of the best chancellor of all times and its cabinet ( according to German presstitutes ).

Since the initiation of Ukraine’s mass offensive against Russian positions the Ukrainian Army and allied paramilitaries have begun to actively deploy new batches of armour received from Western countries, including not only very large numbers of Leopard 1 and Leopard 2A4 tanks, but also the much more capable Leopard 2A6 which, alongside the British Challenger 2, is considered the most capable in the country’s inventory. While Leopard 2A4s have proven highly vulnerable in combat with armour protection that is effectively obsolete, as best demonstrated by Turkish use of the vehicles against local militias in Syria and Iraq, the Leopard 2A6 has long been marketed as a much more capable vehicle. Costing close to $8 million per vehicle, advantages of the new variant include use of 3rd generation composite armour, integration of a a longer barrelled and more powerful main gun, installation of additional armour modules on the turret, and use of much improved fire controls. The loss of these tanks, which have widely been considered the most capable in production across the Western world, has significant implications well beyond Ukraine itself.

A Leopard 2A6 tank was shown in close up aerial footage burning and completely destroyed, with features such as the gun mount confirming the class of vehicle seen. A second Leopard 2A6 was shown in the same formation damaged on its left track and abandoned, alongside multiple American M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles. personnel losses may be heavy, with Western tanks requiring 33% more crew than Russian or Soviet ones at four men each, while Bradleys typically carry nine personnel including three crew. Footage of the destroyed vehicles comes amid reports of very heavy losses for Ukraine’s Western supplied armour in attempted offensives against Russian positions, with other footage published from both sides showing significant losses among Leopard 1 and Leopard 2A4 units.

It remains likely that Leopard 2A6 units have taken further losses, as only a small fraction of destroyed vehicles in the conflict can have closeup videos taken from the air. Leopard 2A6s remain very scarce assets within the Ukrainian inventory, and within NATO more broadly the large majority of tanks in service are less capable, meaning the class’ vulnerability could draw the future viability of further Western arms shipments to Ukraine into question. Germany was initially highly reluctant to allow Leopard 2s to be supplied to Ukraine, with this speculated to have been largely influenced by concerns that combat could tarnish the tank’s reputation. This would be a major loss due to its central importance to the German defence sector’s reputation and to its arms export profile as perhaps the country’s most iconic defence product. Although a more capable Leopard 2 variant the Leopard 2A7 has been developed, improvements remain conservative particularly when compared to the gap between the A4 and A6 variants, with the A7 also having been relegated to a very small production run due to limited foreign demand.

Military Watch Magazine

militarywatchmagazine.com

RUSSOBOT SAYS WHAT?

 

[alang1216]

Who are we to determine if Russia is “justified“ in this war? We have invaded many countries. But they aren’t allowed to for their own interests?

Russia aided North Korea and North Vietnam in their fight against the US but we aren't allowed to aid Ukraine for our own interests?

The Confederate states were English colonies the same as the others before becoming a part of the U.S.

And that is relevant how?

Also, a foreign power did not help overthrow the Federal government at that time before the Civil War began.

So the circumstances are entirely different.

You mean the unpopular government Russia put in power?

 

[Ringo]

it does not justify Russia attacking Kiev. If you were President of the US in 1861, would you have allowed the Confederate States to secede?

Do you really not see the difference?
In 1861, the slave states decided to secede after the LEGALLY elected president didn't suit them.
In 2014, the eastern territories of Ukraine decided to secede after an armed coup in Kiev brought nationalists to power.
If the Ku Klux Klan took power in Washington and proclaimed the return of discriminatory laws, I personally would approve of blacks wanting to secede from such freaks and would consider those abroad, who came to the aid of the Klan to be same freaks.

 

[Ringo]

Russia aided North Korea and North Vietnam in their fight against the US but we aren't allowed to aid Ukraine for our own interests?

Interests? What interests does the U.S. have in a country on the other side of the world? There was already such an empire, the British Empire, which was constantly declaring its interests at risk on the entire surface of the earth. As a result, the empire, over which the sun never sets, ceased to exist.

 

[theHawk]

And that is relevant how?

One people that shared a common language and culture.

Ukrainians and Russians have their own language. That causes a rift.

 

[theHawk]

You mean the unpopular government Russia put in power?

I mean the one elected into power by the citizens of Ukraine.

Convenient you lot just call the former president a “Russian stooge” or “put in power by Russia”.
If that was the case, then they never were a democracy, right? Why should the borders of that old country be recognized then, if it was controlled by Russia to begin with? Your argument makes no sense.

 

[Ringo]

 

[alang1216]

Interests? What interests does the U.S. have in a country on the other side of the world? There was already such an empire, the British Empire, which was constantly declaring its interests at risk on the entire surface of the earth. As a result, the empire, over which the sun never sets, ceased to exist.

Russia is not our friend and generally takes actions contrary to our interests as we see them, including influencing our elections. As the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[alang1216]

One people that shared a common language and culture.

I'm not sure the slave-based culture of the South was much like that of the North.

Ukrainians and Russians have their own language. That causes a rift.

Hispanics have their own language too, would they be justified in trying to secede parts of California, Texas, and Florida?

 

[alang1216]

I mean the one elected into power by the citizens of Ukraine.

Convenient you lot just call the former president a “Russian stooge” or “put in power by Russia”.

You are welcome to you own opinions as am I

If that was the case, then they never were a democracy, right? Why should the borders of that old country be recognized then, if it was controlled by Russia to begin with? Your argument makes no sense.

So only the borders of democracies need to be respected? Does that give us license to invade Russia?

 

[alang1216]

Do you really not see the difference?
In 1861, the slave states decided to secede after the LEGALLY elected president didn't suit them.
In 2014, the eastern territories of Ukraine decided to secede after an armed coup in Kiev brought nationalists to power.

They 'decided' or were 'encouraged' to secede? Was the vote sanctioned by the UN?

If the Ku Klux Klan took power in Washington and proclaimed the return of discriminatory laws, I personally would approve of blacks wanting to secede from such freaks and would consider those abroad, who came to the aid of the Klan to be same freaks.

I think that image fits Russia and Putin better than it does Ukraine and Zelensky.

 

[theHawk]

Hispanics have their own language too, would they be justified in trying to secede parts of California, Texas, and Florida?

And many of them would like to. They hope to keep invading and becoming the majority, so they can take some of those states back and give them to Mexico.

 

[Ringo]

I think that image fits Russia and Putin better than it does Ukraine and Zelensky.

Because your ideological indoctrination does not allow you to think outside the scope of your ideology.

 

[alang1216]

Because your ideological indoctrination does not allow you to think outside the scope of your ideology.

Pretty arrogant for someone who doesn't know me. So what makes you think you're outside the scope of your ideology? Or are you just smarter than the rest of us?

 

[alang1216]

And many of them would like to. They hope to keep invading and becoming the majority, so they can take some of those states back and give them to Mexico.

Like the Russians living in Ukraine, we should let them secede of course. Man, you Russians really hate the US.

 

[Litwin]

run RAT , RUN !

Ukraine's counter-offensive I Regular updates I The 🇷🇺 Rats are on the Run I Why Moscow SUCKS AT WAR ?

Panic🐐 🇷🇺 began :thup:

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Silver Cat]

So the Ukraine is now Russian soil? Which other 'countries' are also Russian soil? Poland, Latvia, etc. Germany is part of NATO so Putin should be very careful.

Technically, yes. As well as Canada and Mexico are America (but not the USA), same way Ukraine (Borderlands/Small Russia) and Belarus (White Russia) are definitely parts of Russia (but may be not the parts of the Russian Federation). Which other contries are also Russian soil? It's really controversial issue, but usually they determine parts of Poland and Baltic states as 'Black Russia' and Northern Kazakhstan, Manchuria (sometimes with the all Communist controled parts of China and Korea) as 'Yellow Russia'.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia is not our friend and generally takes actions contrary to our interests as we see them, including influencing our elections. As the saying goes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

A mad dog that bit my enemy isn't my 'friend'. Tomorrow it might rend my children.
Do you remember Osama bin Laden and 911? The ressurection of the European Nazism is much, much worse.